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Pharmacology - Ketamine Crystal Shape

Discussion in 'Ketamine' started by Simba, Nov 20, 2009.

  1. Simba

    Simba Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Good evening all :)

    I'm hoping we can get a bit of discourse going. There seems to be an awful lot of confusion and speculation on the matter, but I couldn't find anything specifically addressing this issue already here, and certainly nothing convincing, or even evidence-based, anywhere online.

    There are essentially two parts to this enquiry:

    1. Can anyone definitively suggest what causes the two main distinguishable crystal structures of ketamine?
    To give a starting suggestion;
    - Is there any correlation of crystal shape with R and S enantiomers?
    - Is it entirely down to the method/speed of crystallisation?

    If anyone is unsure what I'm referring to here, see this image:

    2. It seems quantifiable that S and R (and by extension, racemic) Ketamine produce significantly different subjective (and pharmacological) effects. Can anyone, again preferably with some degree of definitiveness, suggest the qualitative differences in the experience?
    - A caveat to this question: In the UK market at least, are both R- and S+ Ketamine available on the black market? Or is it all racemic? A pigeon that my neighbour was talking to, a well seasoned user, said he felt certain that he's consumed Ketamine with the subjective differences that could be attributed, perhaps, to different mixtures of Racemic Ketamine, or indeed, individual R- or S+ compounds. Some trips, he said, have been noteably clear-headed, euphoric and analgesic, where others have been far more sedative and confused.

    To clarify:
    1. Where do the different shapes come from?
    2. When ingested, what's the difference?!

  2. daytripper10

    daytripper10 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    Jul 10, 2009
    from U.K.
    I would also be curious to know the answer to these questions! Anyone?
  3. Braincells

    Braincells Banned

    Reputation Points:
    Jul 25, 2008
    29 y/o from jamaica
    well as its a chemical, you should be some kind of chemist to know about this kind of things, but in swims personal experience he found various different brands of k for animals, to have a diff high, while the vet shop owner said it was exactly the same product, in exactly the same amount of k/solvent. And we are talkin about liquid k in swims case.
    for example, everyone in swims neighborhood says that one of the brands is better than the others, so I went to the vet shop and asked for that brand and it always runs out before swim can get some of it, so he always ends up buying the other brand :laugh: But he finds it very pleasant anyways so what is he missing?
    I think its like weed matters, like some straings give some kinda high, while others give another kinda high, but they are exactly the same molecule. THC and CBD mixed in diff amounts. And maybe some other molecules but those are the most important. But its just something that a experienced chemist/researcher/user/etc could really know about. While to some ppl some substance has some effects, to others it has the opposite.
  4. vox

    vox Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    Jul 20, 2007
    from U.S.A.
    I have never had his ketamine crystals look like that after being cooked up. He has only cooked R ketamine himself and in that case the crystals were much bigger and had a very clumped up/flakey appearance, rather than solid looking crystals like in swiys pic.

    However he has also done racemic ketamine although he received that pre cooked. He cant comment on why the crystals look different as he has no definitive answer to that, although he suspects a lot of it depends on the speed/method used to cook the k as well as the brand/isomer.

    As far as effects, the R ketamine was much more of a clear headed extremely drunk-like feeling. And racemic was a LOT more trippy feeling, much more of a confused feeling with noticeably more visuals, even at sub-khole dosages. In swims opinion the differences between R and racemic k is like night and day. R was basically the same feeling as racemic but without much (if any) of the trippy feel to it and very minor or no visuals at sub khole doses.

    He still remembers the first time he tried racemic k, he literally almost felt like he was having a minor acid trip as it was so much more trippy feeling than he was used to (he had only done R ketamine previously). However he had also been awake for 3 days on meth before trying the racemic ketamine so he is sure that added to the trippy/visual feel to the racemic batch.

    I am also a very seasoned user of ketamine, LSD, DMT and pretty much all of your other basic street drugs (not RC's). Perhaps that is why he could so easily tell the difference between the R and racemic batches.