Health - Ketamine for depression (personal experimentation)

Discussion in 'Ketamine' started by arman, May 21, 2007.

  1. arman

    arman Titanium Member

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    SWIM's girlfriend had clinical depression for a few years, her doctor has been tried several anti-depression drugs which does not seems to be very effective. But now she has been drug-free for a month and SWIM decided to try Ketamine on her to see if it does have any use for treating her depression.

    SWIM decided to give her a normal K-Hole IM shot (~95mg) of K, although it seems like they used a lower dose for Ketamine depression trials. Anyway, I had 2 goals: 1.Intorduce her to wonderful world of Ketamine - 2.Try anti-depression value of K. This has been tried yesterday, her experience in K-Hole was a nice one and she loved the experience and to my surprise she is really happy today, she told me that she was never this much happy for a long time. As some may think it is placebo effects, it should be noted that SWIM never told her about the use of K on depression and he is sure that she didn't know anything about K anti-depressant value, so there should be no placebo effect.

    From personal experience SWIM can't remember being any happier the next day, although he tried around 50 experiences with K. So it seems like it is good only for those who suffer from clinical depression not everyone.

    I will update this thread with more info.
     
  2. enquirewithin

    enquirewithin Gold Member

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    I'm sure ketamine can work for depressed people. Previously I thought that it was a kind of psychedelic therapy-- in other words, it can take people out of their tired world of everyday worries and problems and show them a whole range of possibilities. It can help you put things in perspective. Such was been SWIM's experience when he first experimented with it. If he takes it occasionally, he still gets the same benefits.

    There may also be physiological reasons, as some recent research has shown, that very small doses of ketamine can relieve chronic depression.

    Too much, too often is not advisable!
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2007
  3. Jatelka

    Jatelka Psychedelic Shepherdess Platinum Member & Advisor

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    It's a very interesting topic: Has You seen these articles in the archive SWIArman?

    https://drugs-forum.com/forum/local_links.php?action=jump&id=1323&catid=29

    https://drugs-forum.com/forum/local_links.php?action=jump&id=1510&catid=29

    In fact, ketamine is interesting generally. KPT (katamine assisted psychotherapy) has been used in heroin addiction and alcohol addiction. And of course, it's now been used in the treatment of chronic pain.

    For those of you who aren't aware of the file archive please check out the Ketamine section here...

    https://drugs-forum.com/forum/local_links.php?catid=29
     
  4. Optimus

    Optimus Silver Member

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    I like to belive the idea that Ketamine is able to strip away the ego, and release the user to engulf themselves in there own mind entirely realising their true strengths as a person and thus having confidence in ones own thought process. Depression is usually down to a weakness to accept certain things in life, and when SMIN started using K, SWIM realised that a lot of crap that was bothering SWIM at the time just faded away as SWIM realised the true importance of what really makes me happy. I do not suggest that everyone has this, but indeed K has had a phenomanal impact on My life, and SWIM belives it contributed in to SWIM becoming the person I felt he should be.

    To be alone with your mind is an incredible experience, and the thing about K is that when other drugs lie to you and create a certain idea of what you are feeling, K asks you questions, and invariably you can only reply with the truth.

    Big up the K indeed.
     
  5. arman

    arman Titanium Member

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    well, the anti-depressant action can be psychedelic therapy, but the study refrenced above by SWIJatelka, Ketamine dosage injected (IV) for that experiment has been 0.5mg/kg and infusions were administered over 40 minutes so there should be no or very little feeling of Ketamine, at least not enough to have psychedelic effect in subjects. So the anti-depressant action of ketamine is not just psychedelic therapy.

    SWIMGF is still symptom-free today, she decided to quit smoking and SWIM noticed an overall positive change in her life. She told SWIM that she wants to try K again but will not try again till next week.
     
  6. Bajeda

    Bajeda Super Moderator Platinum Member & Advisor

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    You should be careful proceeding with this. Does swiy's GF have much experience with drugs, especially addictive ones? How is her ability to handle substances that are prone to repeated use?

    I'm just asking as for swim in particular, K is a very bingeable substance, as I'm sure it is for many people.
     
  7. arman

    arman Titanium Member

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    No she never get addicted to anything, and K is in SWIM's house and she can't do it without telling SWIM, although I am sure she don't want to do it frequently.
     
  8. Bajeda

    Bajeda Super Moderator Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Ok good.

    It would be interesting for You to try and give GF much lower doses of IM Ketamine and see how see reacts to those. For instance, non-recreational doses similar to those tested for depression and see if those help as much as full blown K-hole experiences. This would be an experience much less prone to cravings and/or addiction, and it would help you find out whether its the neurochemical anti-depressive effects of the Ketamine that are helping, the therapeutic value of the psychedelic experience from the K itself, or a combination of the two.

    Just a thought that may be worth exploring.
     
  9. arman

    arman Titanium Member

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    The problem is that she don't like needles, and she may not allow SWIM to inject her something which doesn't give her a high. But I will try convince her to try low dose.

    BTW, the anti-depressant action seems to be much less today, the 4th day after K injection. But still she is much less depressed than before trying K.
     
  10. enquirewithin

    enquirewithin Gold Member

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    She could try sniffing it instead, although that's not very comfortable.
     
  11. VitaminK22

    VitaminK22 Silver Member

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    I get bad anxiety but when he takes ketamine, the anxiety goes away for about a week or 2, but then it comes back :(
    swim only sniffs ketamine, he dont think its a good idea to inject anesthetic into urself, besides, the experience can last alot long when sniffing it although its not as intense.
     
  12. lulz

    lulz Gold Member

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    I'm very curious about how ketamine is effective at treating depression.

    Modification of glutamergic neurons is the most obvious factor, considering that ketamine is an NMDA antagonist.

    Since the effect supposedly starts a few hours after dosage, and ketamine has a half life of just a few hours, I wonder if the positive effects are caused by some kind of rebound effect where glutamate neurons become more reponsive after being temporarily blocked. The fact that the positive effects extend for days after dosage suggests that the activity level of the neurons has been affected one way or the other.

    I suspect that glutamate activity is increased rather than decreased, which seems paradoxical because ketamine does the opposite, but it would actually make sense. There is a great deal of research implicating glutamate dysfunction in the pathology of bipolar disorder:

    http://www.neurotransmitter.net/bipolarglutamate.html

    The site is currently down, but here's a google cache: http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...lutamate.html+glutamate+bipolar&hl=en&strip=1

    The research generally suggests that bipolar disorder is related to some combination of malfunctioning of NMDA receptors and a broken down GABA-mediated negative feedback loop. Manic episodes are linked to excessive glutamate activity, as glutamate is a stimulatory neurotransmitter and is also responsible for dopamine induced activation of the pleasure response in the nucleus accumbens (MDMA exploits this feature to induce euphoria).

    This would all go to suggest that glutamate activity is too low in some depressed people, and that by some unknown mechanism glutamate activity is temporarily restored to regular levels after exposure to ketamine.

    If this is even just one of the main factors behind this effect, it might be useful for people to explore other ways of increasing glutamate activity, if they are interested in trying to treat their depressive symptoms using ketamine. One thing that I would certainly try is large regular doses of the amino acid glutamine, because the body can convert this to glutamate. Another dietary source would be eggs, which contain a lot of the amino acid glutamate itself. I would avoid MSG though, because MSG delivers a lot of glutamate to the brain very quickly, and too much of the stuff is excitotoxic.
     
  13. Mr.E.Charlie

    Mr.E.Charlie Newbie

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    I thought of this previously . Being taken into a calming , different world in a good setting would IMO definatly help with depression .

    I read that Pete Doherty ( Most famous present junkie :) ) used ketamine a lot to aid depression when his friend died ( Similar to that if im wrong lol )

    Usually ( and in SWIM's own experiences ) drugs work with the mood of the user at the time of use . I have taken ecstasy to enhance mood at a time when he was feeling low and felt much worse after onset of the ecstasy and ended up writhing in confusion and strange state of mind that can only be described as Weird Thought Soup .

    Hope this helps :D
     
  14. Maldoror

    Maldoror Newbie

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    I know this is an old post, but since I get bollocked each time I start a new thread ;)

    For someone who has been diagnosed with clinical depression and has not responded to treatment, the research seems to indicate that Ketamine could been beneficial when used regularly on a low dose.

    I am currently looking into the research and other studies, purely for informational purposes, and would like to hear other people's thoughts on this. I have had been put on SSRI - specifically Aropax and Zoloft - off and on between 1995 and 2004. I was diagnosed with clinical depression about five years prior. The usual pattern with SSRIs is that there is noticable high for a short period after first taking the SSRI before returning to 'normal'. These "highs" have, however, been the only real moments of happiness and feeling good in my life. There was a short period on MAOs but there was no change. I have never responded to psychiatric treatment.

    Based on the research, it would seem that Ketamine therapy could be of value. What advice would you give about how much Ketamine and how often?

    It should be pointed out that I am male, slightly overweight and 6" and has had relatively little experience with 'psychedelics'.

    Look forward to hearing your responses.
     
  15. C.D.rose

    C.D.rose Palladium Member Donating Member

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    SWIM just realized the thread was started about three years ago. is there any way to have an update? how's the OP's girlfriend today in terms of depression (supposing she is still his girlfriend, or if not, he's still in contact with her)? has she been using ketamine for a longer period of time? any additional information would really be appreciated!
     
  16. RunRedFox

    RunRedFox Gold Member

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    Swirx has had a lot of experience in this subject. Ketamine is a very effective short acting anti depressant. There is a very high addiction trend swirx has noticed, especially in people that are usually disinterested in typical drug addictions.
    In moderation, it is one of the most fascinating chemicals, however if it becomes a crutch or is abused and the dosage becomes more frequent and heavier You will find himself behind a temporary schizophrenics eye's.
    Also, it is helpful to note that ketamine sleep is not restful. Often if taking the drug at night time, multiple nights in a row the effects of insomnia will become apparent.

    The schizo effects are interesting, and can be slightly disturbing in there own right. High auditory hallucination. swirx remembers hearing his favorite records mixed flawlessly while he walked down the street, life was kind of like that family guy episode were peter wished for theme music for his life. Some visual hallucinations. Both of these persisting days after last use.
    Swirx will note this only begins to occur with habituation.

    All that aside, Swirx believes ketamine has a definite place in the anti depression arsenal.

    http://www.acnp.org/g4/gn401000116/ch114.html
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071206145243.htm
     
  17. PsychicChic?

    PsychicChic? Newbie

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    I know this is a very old thread but hope someone will respond especially now Ketamin is being used in Clinics specifically to treat depression. I have just stopped taking an SNRI (Cymbalta) a few days ago (after a fairly rapid wean from 120 - 20mg) as it is no longer working for me and hoping to try some Ket tomorrow to relieve the side effects of withdrawing from the anti-depressant but also in the hope it will help with the depression and subsequent cola habit that has built up over the past year which I used to perk me up but now is just something I need to stay awake and alert. I'm asking alot from the Ket I realise this and may try other psychedelics in the future for the anti depressant effects and hopefully a spiritual experience that will tell me what purpose I have in what is left of my mostly wasted life. 1 gram will be available - I intend to take it via the plugging route. How much should I take as a first time user, also bearing in mind I am in a very shaky and anxious state due to withdrawing from Cymbalta?

    I have had 2 very severe depressions in the past 5 years both lasted 6 months and were a living hell - I never want to go back down there - if necessary I will sell my house and travel to USA for ketamin treatment or Ibogaine treatment in a supervised environment but am going to try self medicating first. I have little experience with other psychedelics except for light mushroom trips in my teens and recently trying Salvia at a fairly weak dose. The Salvia experiences were just weird and not scary but not pleasant either but I did have a mood lift for about a day after the 2 times I tried it.

    Does anyone have positive experiences they could share regarding depression treatment and Ketamin or other psychedelics?
     
  18. carryh2o

    carryh2o Newbie

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