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Opinions - Knockout Drug Absorbed Thru Skin - Do you think this story is real?

Discussion in 'Various drugs not covered by other forums' started by Expat98, May 4, 2008.

  1. Expat98

    Expat98 Platinum Member & Advisor

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    I have read many stories about the use of scopolamine in Colombia and other places to incapacitate people either by putting it in a drink or blowing it in their face.

    I just read another story about a drug called "La Roche" which was allegedly absorbed through the skin when someone touched an ATM keypad in Bogota. Do you think this is for real, or just someone telling a tall tale?

    Another message:

    Note that the well-known knockout drug Rohypnol (flunitrazepam) is made by Roche, and he calls this drug "La Roche". Rohypnol is a benzodiazepine. This guy says "La Roche" is derived from "Penotiazetinas". No match in Google for that term, but he might be trying to write the Spanish translation of benzodiazepine?

    I have heard of liquid carriers which can cause drugs to be absorbed through skin, whereas they normally would not be absorbed. Taken orally, the onset of Rohypnol is fast - about 15 minutes. If it can be made to be absorbed through the skin then the onset could be even faster. A couple of milligrams could be enough to affect someone.

    But SWIM has taken Rohypnol a long time ago, and the effects described here do not sound to him like Rohypnol. It does not cause paralysis. It just puts you to sleep.

    So what do you think, is this for real, or is someone just trying to get some attention here? I am leaning toward the latter explanation. If there were a drug that could paralyze someone within minutes simply by them touching it then we'd have heard about it...seems unlikely that such a drug would have found its way into use by common street criminals in Colombia without us hearing about it elsewhere.
     
  2. Panthers007

    Panthers007 Newbie

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    "Penotiazetinas" must be a corruption of Phenothiazines. These are major tranquilizers used to control psychotics - and sometimes prisoners in jails. The classic first phenothiazine to be marketed was Thorazine (clorpromazine). From there a whole, large family of related drugs were developed - including haloperidol (Haldol), Mellaril, Prolixin, et al.

    The effects of these drugs is utterly unlike a benzodiazepine. If one could relate their mind to being like a TV set, with images and ideas zipping across the screen, these drugs are like the TV after someone yanks the cord out of the wall: A little white dot receding, receding,...receding......<poit!> - Gone.

    I have no idea if these could be used in the manner described.
     
  3. RaverHippie

    RaverHippie Gold Member

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    My parents have scopolamine prescribed in transdermal patches so it must be readily absorbed through the skin in different preparations.
     
  4. Panthers007

    Panthers007 Newbie

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    Scopolamine, along with atropine and hyocsine, are alkaoids of the tropine family. They are found in many species - including Datura. This was a component of the "Flying Ointment" used by the so-called Witches. They would apply a salve made with this (and other plants such as Monkshood - Aconitum Nappellus) to an object, such as a broomstick, and insert it into an orifice or two. From this they would trip out.

    This is where we get the image of the Witch riding a broomstick. Remember this next Halloween.
     
  5. Expat98

    Expat98 Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Note that the person mentions scopolamine but talks about this "La Roche" drug as being something different. Scopolamine is well known to be used by criminals in Colombia and other places. There are plenty of stories floating around about people wandering the streets in a daze, and they come to and find that they've got a kidney missing or something.

    BTW, I've travelled in Colombia, and I love it there. I don't want to create an overblown negative image of the country because the media has already done a nice job of that. Still, there are risks involved in many areas of the country.

    Expat98 added 33 Minutes and 45 Seconds later...

    The Spanish translation of phenothiazines is "fenotiazina" and that sounds pretty close to what the guy wrote (penotiazetinas). This also makes more sense in terms of the effects that he described.

    However, I read a little about clorpromazine and a couple of other phenothiazines, and they appear to be active at dose levels in the hundreds of milligrams, so they couldn't be absorbed through the skin in the manner described unless there is another one in the family that is much more potent.

    Haloperidol is said to be 50 times more potent than clorpromazine though, so I guess it's possible that there is a potent related drug. Hmmm...so the jury's still out on this.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2008
  6. Eldorhan

    Eldorhan Newbie

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    Technically, any anesthetic (wether direct or "DMSO'ed") applied to the back of the head will cause unconsciousness in minutes, depending on the ferocity of the substance.

    There's also Curare, which causes instant paralysis with a few drops depending on body weight and instant (well, 3-5 secs) knockout with a few more drops.

    Botulinum and LSD are the only 2 known substances active enough to do damage to the body if absorbed by hand contact (that is, just touching it and getting a ridiculous amount on your fingers, not leaving it sit there for an hour).

    Even a massive concentration of carcyfentanyl, if touched, wouldn't do better than just disorient someone for a given set of time, not even close to causing "instant knockdown".
     
  7. Panthers007

    Panthers007 Newbie

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    Please provide your sources for this information.
     
  8. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member

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    Interesting. As panthers says; please be so to back up your claims. This will be interesting reads.
     
  9. Expat98

    Expat98 Platinum Member & Advisor

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    I assume you are referring to Eldorhan's claims? I believe the only claims I've made in this thread are about scopolamine. I can provide plenty of info about the criminal use of that drug in another thread if you think it's worthwhile to do so...