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kratom and grapefruit juice?

Discussion in 'Kratom' started by sands of time, Nov 12, 2005.

  1. sands of time

    sands of time Newbie

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    I have read alot about grapefruit juice potentiating opiates because it binds with the same enzyme as opiates, but what about kratom? I have read on some kratom groups and sites that grapefruit juice works well at potentiating kratom, and in fact I have just tried it out.

    I kinda wanna say that I can already feel it hitting me a bit harder, but I think I will need more time to tell. I took a normal dose (1 1/2 tablespoons mixed in pudding) and within 40 minutes the effects were coming on strong. I feel more sedated than normal, but I'm not sure if the grapefruit juice made much difference. I will report back latter. Can anyone else share any experiences? Some people swear by this method.
     
  2. snapper

    snapper Gold Member

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    Grapefruit juice inhibits cytochrome enzymes in the liver that help break
    down complex drugs. This became popular with DXM and does indeed
    make this sustance stronger. Looking at the compex ring structure of
    mytraginine and friends, it is likely that cytochromes work on these.
    Therefore, it may work.
    To get it to work better, drink about 1/2 liter minimum of PURE grapefruit
    (not concentrate) about 2 hours before eating Kratom. The latter kicks in
    and out rapidly, and it takes at least 2 hours for the alkaloids in the
    grapefruit to bind up the cytochromes.

    Snapper
     
  3. sands of time

    sands of time Newbie

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    Wow, thats quite a large amount. It would be nice if there was some sore of extract available, like a vitamin or something. Maybe one could evaporate the grapefruit juice and then drink a smaller amount. Thanks for the info, I did drink a much smaller amount, but the effects lasted longer. Not much more intense though.
     
  4. Svperstar

    Svperstar Newbie

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    Funny this topic came up.

    Today I just got 90 grams of powdered Kratom, "commercial" grade. I went and got some "100% pure Grapefruit juice, not from concentrate" today to see if it works.

    10:00 pm </span>I drank 2 large glasses of Grapefruit juice, and waited 30 minutes.

    10:20 pm</span> I pop 1 Generic Extra strength antacid (1000 mgs of Calcium Carbonate.)

    10:30 pm </span>I put 2 TSP on the back of my tongue and wash it down with hot water, one TSP at a time, I think a TSP = 4.6 grams

    I then chug a sugar free adrenaline rush, which I think is ~80-100 mgs of caffine

    I keep doing this once every 15 minutes or so till midnight.

    12:00 pm WOW! </span>Hits me like a ton of bricks, I am very, very high, a lot higher than I have been off of Kratom before.

    1:10 am( </span>Now)

    I still feel it but I am slightly shaky, my hands are shaking pretty bad.

    I think I consumed about 30 grams of powder tonight, good stuff. I think the grapefruit juice had a nice effect.
     
  5. bcStoner420

    bcStoner420 Newbie

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    Wow, seems like grapefruit juice is good for a large number of drug potentiations. I think i might have to stock up[​IMG].
     
  6. Red_Baran

    Red_Baran Silver Member

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    Swim would have to agree, swim loves kratom, and its much better when you drink a nice huge glass Grapefruit in the morning and eat kratom all day long
     
  7. sourcream

    sourcream Newbie

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    superstar noted that antiacid affect the
    euphoric effects of kratom of simply assist
    with the sickness involved? swim loves caffine while on kratom but have
    never used grape juice.



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    it be the vitamin content or acids (i.e. would cranberry juice have the
    same effect) or does it actually involve grapes? i wonder if just
    grapes would produce the same interaction... just thinking to myself ;)
     
  8. 56hoperoad

    56hoperoad Newbie

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    I think it's the DHEA in grapefruit juice.
     
  9. signifier

    signifier Newbie

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    The potentiation comes from chemicals called Flavonoids which inhibit some cytochrome oxidase liver enzymes.
    You can now buy extracted flavonoids in many herb/supplement shops. Look for 'Citrus Bioflavonoids' and 'Querecetin'....
     
  10. snapper

    snapper Gold Member

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    Also, many drugs inhibit cytochromes. A lack of cytrochromes also potentiates many drugs. think about what you are on first (ie - medications) since you may experience a similar potentiation.

    Snapper
     
  11. lem

    lem Silver Member

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  12. Marsofold

    Marsofold Newbie

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    Grapefruit juice causes many things to be absorbed into the bloodstream much faster. I used to take Seldane by prescription for allergies. It was removed from the market after it was discovered that taking it with grapefruit juice caused the Seldane blood concentration to reach dangerous levels.
     
  13. radiometer

    radiometer bananadine addict Platinum Member & Advisor

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    There is no information available regarding the metabolism of mitragynine, so it certainly may be possible that WGF juice potentiates kratom. It's cool to see anecdotal evidence suggesting it is so...I'll have to give this a try soon.
     
  14. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Newbie

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    Oh Bongo? Bongo sweetie? I have a nice and frosty drink for you! Come back here, you damned beast! Stop acting like an ape!
     
  15. Richard_smoker

    Richard_smoker Newbie

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    Radiometer,

    the point you bring up is exactly the issue with cytochromes in general--and unless someone does the research on mytragines and how they're metabolized, then we'll only have the anecdotal evidence to add or detract from the idea that grapefruit juice enhances the kratom.

    remember, with SOME drugs, the grapefruit juice (if we're assuming it's an active cytochrome inhibitor in this instance) will actually enhance the excretion of the drug.

    Some drugs are MORE activated by having a revved-up CYP system. These are usually drugs whose partially metabolized by-product is more potent or equally potent as the parent drug. (hence last year's fad in USA about 'prohormones' before they were quickly banished)
     
  16. tayo

    tayo Newbie

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    Is Kratom Potentiated by Grapefruit Juice?

    After using the forum search engine, scattered posts in threads may have mentioned this before, and a post in 2005 was the most recent on the sunject, but to make it easier for others to find... SWIM thought it deserved an easy to find thread of its own.

    Well the question...

    Will grapefruit juice (GFJ) potentiate the active alkaloids in Kratom?

    (of which new information is now pointing toward 7-Hydroxy-Mitragynine as being responsible for the main opiate like effects of kratom.) Do we know what liver enzyme metabolizes it yet?
     
  17. hemlox

    hemlox Newbie

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    Re: Is Kratom Potentiated by Grapefruit Juice?

    There´s been a lot of discussion about this on another forum, but the consensus seems to be that yes, it does.
    A substance in grapefruit blocks the enzyme that breakes down the active parts of several medicines and drugs (ther´s a load of info on this, just ask Google) including, it would seem, Kratom.

    In SWIM`s opinion it may not actually make the experience more powerful, but instead make it last for a lot longer.
     
  18. Bajeda

    Bajeda Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Re: Is Kratom Potentiated by Grapefruit Juice?

    Then the question would have to be what alkaloids in Kratom are potentiated by the inhibition of CYP3A4 through ingestion of grapefruit juice.
     
  19. DXMBunny

    DXMBunny Silver Member

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    Re: Is Kratom Potentiated by Grapefruit Juice?

    Swim has been reading and sees that grapefruit juice is suppose to potentate the kratom like it does opiates and benzo's by inhibiting the enzyme... so swim has heard that this more extends the trip rather than increase which makes sense since it is just inhibiting the enzyme from breaking it down...

    swim question is if this grapefruit does do this... doesnt this mean that swim would have to take more than normal because it is being extended/slowed...

    or is swim wrong in thinking that this means that gfj is basically making it more of a "time released" thing like alot of pills...
     
  20. gmeziscool2354

    gmeziscool2354 Silver Member

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    Re: Is Kratom Potentiated by Grapefruit Juice?

    heres swims thinking on kratom potentiation. for the most part, with leaves, its a product of how the body breaks the leaves down to how much alkaloids are in the system. stomach acid is one of the more important things in the breaking down of plant material into something that can be digested. inhibiting or reducing the acidity of the stomach would slow the uptake rate so the theory that alkalyzers may inhibit kratom seems to be false by swims logic.
    GFJ inhibits GI enzymes, (not sure which but they are mentioned a million times on this forum) this likely does not lead to a blood plasma increase, just a slowing of excretiong, so dxm bunny seems dead on by saying GFJ would make 'tom more 'XR' like, which is exactly what SWIM has learned from recent trials.

    but regardless, swim eats GF for breakfast all the time lately as it is availible now, and seems to notice that K'tom has been hitting him harder recently. he usually buys a batch one every few monthes, and last time he wasn't eating GF, but this really doesn't indicate anything, as he ordered his last batch in february, and ordered this one last week from a different vendor and is a different 'variety'. So he can't really answer the question fully, but on annecdotal evidence he says its more or less true that GFJ can potentiate ktom
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2009