1. Dear Drugs-Forum readers: We are a small non-profit that runs one of the most read drug information & addiction help websites in the world. We serve over 4 million readers per month, and have costs like all popular websites: servers, hosting, licenses and software. To protect our independence we do not run ads. We take no government funds. We run on donations which average $25. If everyone reading this would donate $5 then this fund raiser would be done in an hour. If Drugs-Forum is useful to you, take one minute to keep it online another year by donating whatever you can today. Donations are currently not sufficient to pay our bills and keep the site up. Your help is most welcome. Thank you.
    PLEASE HELP
    Dismiss Notice

Combinations - Kratom and low dose Buprenorphine

Discussion in 'Kratom' started by Space Numpty, Sep 28, 2011.

  1. Space Numpty

    Space Numpty Palladium Member

    Reputation Points:
    3,100
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,549
    Male from england
    I have both read and partaken in threads here asking about Kratoms effectiveness when using Buprenorphine.

    I think its a given that Kratoms primary alkaloids, although not in themselves opiates, are blocked by Bupe as they target opioid receptors.

    I figure this is relative to the amount of Bupe being taken and i find myself in the position where i can test this.

    I am currently taking 2mg Suboxone a day, reduced gradually from 12mg. Being a kratom fan and reading about its effectiveness when it comes to Bupe withdrawal i recently purchased 50g of some of my favorite Kratom strain, Super Sunda (probably the most potent standard leaf strain, but at the opposite end of the alkaloid spectrum to Maeng Da). I weighed out 5g and took it, toss and wash.

    Well, the long and short of it is that i DID feel the Kratoms effects. Maybe not as strong as usual but strong enough to give sedation, moderate euphoria but most importantly for me, that feeling of calm and tranquility. This was strong enough to discount any potential placebo effect, infact i'd kinda forgotten i'd taken it when i noticed its effects.

    So, in conclusion, i would say that for me at least 2mg of Bupe is not sufficient to completely block the dose of Kratom that i personally use. I would estimate that the Kratom was approx 70% effective.
     
  2. AddyCrazy

    AddyCrazy Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    87
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2007
    Messages:
    304
    Male from U.S.A.
    SWIM has not taken his dose of bupe in 48 hours. He usually takes around 2 - 6mg over the course of the day. He just swallowed 8g of Maeng Da so he'll report back and let everyone know how the effects compare.
     
  3. postimmortal

    postimmortal Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    69
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2011
    Messages:
    73
    30 y/o Male from U.S.A.
    I can attest that while on low doses of Bupe, the effects of kratom can be felt. I was on a suboxone regimen for about a year, tapering down to below 2 mgs daily. Towards the end there, I was taking kratom to completely eliminate any withdrawal symptoms, and it worked nicely.

    Now I have just switched one substance for another, but i'm happy with it. I got very strong euphoria, and the calm and tranquility the OP mentioned in the first post. Maybe it's due to the low dose of bupe, or MAYBE.. Maybe the alkaloids in kratom act differently than traditional opiates. That's just one theory i've had. Probably wrong, but who knows, ya know?

    Take care.
     
  4. topher

    topher Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    41
    Joined:
    May 17, 2010
    Messages:
    46
    Male from U.S.A.
    One shouldn't fret on this "trading one addiction for another" thing. Yes, kratom is mildly addictive, but very managable. Kratom is MUCH easier to control than any pharms used for OMT.
     
  5. postimmortal

    postimmortal Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    69
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2011
    Messages:
    73
    30 y/o Male from U.S.A.
    Not fretting, so much. Just, i'm aware that I did indeed trade substances to maintain on. And i'm okay with that. Kratom just.. feels better to me. More natural, you know? It's better than me making big pharma richer.
     
  6. Bluerockie30

    Bluerockie30 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    -20
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    29
    Male from U.S.A.
    Hi i am currently taking 16mg a day of suboxone i took 8mg just now and want to know how long should i wait to smoke some kratom for it too work 100% on my opiod receptors and also how long should i wait after i smoke the kratom to take my suboxone again thanks for any replies
     
  7. ellisd

    ellisd Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    219
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    185
    Male from Canada
    ^ Have you smoked Kratom before? Just wondering as most users do not get any effects from smoking Kratom. If this is your first trial with smoking Kratom, I think you will be disappointed.
     
  8. Bluerockie30

    Bluerockie30 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    -20
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    29
    Male from U.S.A.
    Yes it is my first time how many times do i gotta do it to like it and how long after my suboxone should i smoke it?
     
  9. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

    Reputation Points:
    12,257
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    11,136
    41 y/o Male from ireland
    Please do a little research on kratom if you wish to try it.
    You dont smoke it.
     
  10. Bluerockie30

    Bluerockie30 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    -20
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    29
    Male from U.S.A.
    I did do reseach you can make it into tea eat it or smoke it i got the dryed out buds of white lotus and read you smoke that kind how am i suppose to use the buds there pretty big buds so how else should i use it and how long after my suboxone please let me know how long
     
  11. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

    Reputation Points:
    12,257
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    11,136
    41 y/o Male from ireland
    Smoking Kratom will not produce any effects. At best you will get placebo effects. I have been using Kratom for 6 or 7 years, i have tried pretty much every type available, none can be smoked to produce effects.

    Make a tea or eat it.
     
  12. Space Numpty

    Space Numpty Palladium Member

    Reputation Points:
    3,100
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,549
    Male from england
    Can we keep the thread on topic please, this is about combining Buprenorphine and kratom, not smoking it. Its certainly not a post about white lotus either.

    And yes, Ianzombie is absolutely right. Infact if you need to know pretty much anything about kratom, Ianzombies your man. Kratom can be smoked, but you would be lucky to feel any effect and would have to smoke a shitload so its really not worth it.

    Anyhoo, i think we can conclude that low dose Bupe, at least, does not block Kratom, or at least not fully.
     
  13. FPU4eva

    FPU4eva Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    -18
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Messages:
    40
    25 y/o Male from U.S.A.
    thanks for the info just ordered 4 ounces and take a mg of sub a day
     
  14. magister

    magister Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    99
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    114
    Male from poland
    Funny when BD was on 2mg of sub he would sometimes run low on his weekly script. He had some spare kratom around but it would only help him a bit more feel normal if he was feeling a bit of WD if it was up to the 36 hour mark. Past that going into 48 hours after last subutex, then one would usually start to feel the more euphoric effect of kratom, but the effects will increase as you get to 72+ hour mark. Basically Kratom will help patch any WD from other opiates including a WD from subutex, but subs take a long time to get out of the receptor sites and are very sticky.

    However Kratom addiction is possible, BD used Kratom only 1-2 times a day, usually late afternoon and in the evening. Helped reduce stress and let him sleep, cope with boring daily routine of modern life in big city. When he ran out it would be like 1st night pretty bad, with not much sleep, he would often have some sort of strong liqueur and get a bit drunk. The hangover the next day would make things worse. The next 2-4 days things were manageable but still not great sleep, just short catnaps. This went on for a few years, and he had to do this WD every time a package was late or he had a trip or something. But then BD started using in the morning as well and was taking Kratom up to 4 times a day, when the Kratom package was late he would get massive panic/anxiety and sense of staring into the abyss. Kratom habit was starting to become quite costly, even thou he had found the best sources at the best price. There is alot of crap kratom as well as some stuff which works really well. There is some which will make you feel more fuzzy but high, then the real clean euphoric stuff, and stuff which basically does nothing. The worst is when your shit turns green from all the Toss & Wash. BD really had to shop around and try lots of different suppliers to fine the best stuff. The cheapest way is to go direct to indonesia/malaysia, you can find these suppliers on import/export sites, but harder to find quality with these guys, but they should send you samples.

    Anyway eventually it got so bad, BD had to go to a clinic and was given 8mg of subutex. So of course some will say Kratom is less addictive than subutex, etc. However subutex last much longer and it is not about getting high, it is more about feeling normal and getting by. Over 2 years he is down to 0.8mg subutex, but still if he goes over 24 hours without it he feel funny, alot is due to his anxiety about the onset of WDs, an experience he has become way way way too familiar with due to late parcels/required travel where did didn't want to tote a bag of green leaf, etc etc. If you don't know what to expect it is ok.

    Maybe in other countries health systems it is cheaper to just buy kratom on the web than to get a doctor to subscribe a suboxone or subutex script, but where BD lives it now cost about 200 USD a year, which is alot better than the $10k his Kratom habit was costing him at the peak of his addiction. He would go thru about 2 kilos every 6 weeks....it was madness truely.
     
  15. MachoManSavage

    MachoManSavage Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    185
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012
    Messages:
    152
    Male from Canada

    That's a shame that you are on subutex now over kratom. Kratom is so much easier to control and manage a life with, buprenorphine is a killer. What it did to my step-sister was frightening. You shouldn't allow greedy doctors to feed you their poisons so they get richer. *sigh*

    Good luck, friend.

    EDIT: Oh, and I remember reading a good comparison on the internet once. Giving someone bupe for kratom addiction is like giving someone cocaine for a coffee addiction. It's backwards.
     
  16. BBird48

    BBird48 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Messages:
    11
    Male from U.S.A.
    So SWIM has kicked H for over three months now but used low dose 2mg Suboxone to do so. When supplies of the suboxone ran low SWIM began trying to taper by breaking the pills into lower doses eventually .5mg .25mg every few days or so. SWIM noticed the withdrawals were not really going for it though, SWIM is prescribed Klonopin and Adderall so SWIM gets through work days without anyone really noticing but yesterday the fatigue got nearly unbearable. SWIM read this thread and tried 4 large capsules SWIM filled with Sumatra Gold and UEI (2grams) about 3 hours after taking about .17mg of suboxone via intranasal administration. Also SWIM has a tincture of supposedly high concentrated 7-Hydroxymitragynine. SWIM is at +2.5 hours since administering the Kratom and is having no signs of precipitated withdrawal. Also SWIM is feeling noticeably better. Not wild euphoria but SWIM is definitely feeling better then SWIM has for awhile. The tincture like most has alcohol in it but the amount consumed was very small so much less than a beer's worth also SWIM has not yet taken SWIM's klonopin or adderall for the day so the effects are not being manipulated by these unless you count the residual klonopin in SWIM's system from yesterday about 24 hours ago which is within the half life of the drug but for someone as tolerant as SWIM the effects are far from noticeable with that kind of time between. So maybe this can help someone who was afraid of the PW that might occur from the combo of low dose suboxone and kratom.
     
  17. stargazer24

    stargazer24 Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    15
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2013
    Messages:
    15
    Male from Canada
    Ive weaned down to around 1mg of suboxone and want to use kratom to help come off, as the wdrawals
    I had last time were insanse. I was hoping to take it for maybe 2-3 days at 1mg or just stop suboxone and then start taking it. And then take it for no more than 2 weeks to get through the worst of the withdrawal. I have a bit of clonidine, clonazapem, and trazodone, to also help, so this won't be my only thing but definitely a core aspect of my protocol. I heard that taking a low dose painkiller or kratom during suboxone withdrawal can really help with the crawling skin, which is the worst part for me. It's good to hear all this info on here and to know that it helps. I don't like the idea of combining clonidine, clonazepem, kratom and loperamide. I might have to go with kratom in the day and clonidine at night, and skip the loperamide if I'm using kratom as they are both working on opiate receptors (although for most people for who loperamide doesn't cross the BBB, apparently loperamide hits the gut receptors and not the brain like kratom).
    Any thoughts from people with experience with these combos? Cheers.
     
  18. Brill

    Brill Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    45
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    44
    Male from U.S.A.
    Jethro has various spinal ailments and so is on a bupe pain patch, 10mcg/hr. He took a kratom capsule that was one of two, complimentary added to an order of ethnobotanicals, to see how that would go-- thinking it was a green tea type of thing.

    Well, he did not feel good, headache, kind of grumpy: there was some hint of pleasantness, but it was more like having a hangover. He read up on kratom to understand more what it was, he had been foolish: yes he saw it was very likely blocked by the regular dose of bupe that he was on.

    A month or so later, there was a bit of a mix up, and he ran out of his pain patches. Oh no! He recalls that things were starting to get very uncomfortable. Then he remembered the other kratom capsule.

    This helped him get through, very well, until he could get more pain patches.

    Some things Jethro learned (because he's not Brilliant like Brill, or many of you) that when you are on a constant dose of something that might make others high but just makes you able to function, you forget about it, but when it is unavailable you miss it a great deal.

    In this case, that extra bit of freebie Kratom was a godsend.
     
  19. Doctor Rockzo!

    Doctor Rockzo! Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    35
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Messages:
    65
    Male from U.S.A.
    Just curious here, im intrested in this, but not in he same way you all are...
    Could I use bupe recreationally(I have no tolerance, 15mg-25mg hydrocodone recreational) and kratom together? I love how long Bupe last and how its so joyous, and how tranquil and serene kratom is. Could say....a mid range dose of each be taken?
     
  20. Space Numpty

    Space Numpty Palladium Member

    Reputation Points:
    3,100
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,549
    Male from england
    Depends on what you mean by a mid-range dose tbh. I would say 2mg Bupe shouldn't significantly block the kratom.