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Health - Kratom curing your cold?

Discussion in 'Kratom' started by _Dante_, Jan 12, 2011.

  1. _Dante_

    _Dante_ Silver Member

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    Had a quick search and didn't find anything for this, not even on google:

    Over the last six months, whenever swim had a bad cold, swim took a few grams of kratom, and within two hours the cold had dried up.

    One occasion it returned a couple of days later, so swim took another few grams and it went immediately.

    This phenomena was noticed accidently one evening when swim had some kratom for recreational purposes, and found swim's cold disappeared.

    Anyone else experienced this?

    What could cause this to happen?

    Swim thought that it may be because kratom acts in a similar way to opiates, and codeine used to be used in cough mixtures etc. However, that doesn't explain why it seems to actually CURE the cold, not just relieve the symptoms.

    SWIY's thoughts are much appreciated.
     
  2. dyingtomorrow

    dyingtomorrow R.I.P.

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    Well like you said it acts a lot like opiates. SWIM wasn't sick a single day the 4+ years he was shooting heroin. He has had a terrible terrible cold for the past week which has barely been getting better, but he did some H on Friday and it went away until Sunday.

    Just SWIMs opinion, but he strongly believes that opiates are healthy for your body. Stress has an extremely powerful affect on health. It makes you suceptible to all kind of diseases, pains, infections, etc. It severely weakens your immune system. Someone under extreme stress, particularly in their 30s and 40s, can literally age 10 years in appearence in a single year. Besides the fact that dopamine is tied to immune system function, SWIM believes the state of ultimate relaxation, happiness, and complete absence of stress that opiates (and Kratom) cause allows your body to heal and resist disease much better.

    Just SWIMs thoughts.
     
  3. Maudlin_Fame

    Maudlin_Fame Silver Member

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    Just to echo what SWIDT has said, SWIM has been using kratom for two years now and has had not one single cough, cold, blocked nose etc. in that time. This is while people in the same house have suffered from cold and flu viruses. So clearly there is some physiological effect resulting from mu-opioid receptor agonists which either enhances the body's immunity or dulls the typical side effects of the body's immune system (i.e. reduces inflammation, reduces stress hormones). Probably a mixture of both.
     
  4. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    Not clearly. We aren't talking about a pure chemical here. Kratom powder or leaf has a lot of other stuff in it besides mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine. Additionally, practically no substance is exclusively selective for a single receptor.

    It's possible that there are numerous flavonoids and antioxidants in kratom leaf. These could contribute to greater overall health, but this is just speculation. I think it will be difficult to impossible to pindown any specific cause without empirical studies.

    As far as other opiates go, one should keep in mind that opiates tend to make the user feel superior and have a sense of greater clarity and health. The subjective effects may play a role in this perception. I have not seen any evidence or studies regarding any immune or health effects with regards to the opiate receptors. I would think such things would have been thoroughly investigated as the classical opiates have been used for many many decades and have been extensively studied. If anyone can find such empirical evidence regarding opiates and immune health, then please share - I would love to see it.

    On a side note, there does seem to be some correlation between histamine and opiate use, as some antihistamines alleviate some opiate withdrawal symptoms. I'm sure there is information out there on this, but I have not investigated the matter. That may be a place to start as histamine is involved in inflammation responses.
     
  5. catseye

    catseye Gold Member

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    I think this topic is quite interesting as I've read a few studies linking opioid receptors to the immune system. I'm certainly not well versed in it, but from what I gather expression of opioid receptor genes has been fond not only in brain structures, but also in immune-related organs, thereby corroborating a potential immune function for these receptors (Chadzinska et al, 2009).
    That particular referenced article goes on further to say
    (MOR - mu, DOR - delta, KOR - kappa)

    I've attached the pdf, and also another that discusses the idea that opioid receptors expressed by immune cells are often the same/identical to the neuronal opioid receptors which could open doors for opioid immunopharmacology (Bidlack 2000). Hope they are useful/informative :)
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Maudlin_Fame

    Maudlin_Fame Silver Member

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    Well, yes, kratom has many dozens of different alkaloids aside from the opioid receptor agaonists. From what little I’ve read (and from what little research has been done on the chemical make up of kratom) it appears that there are numerous Adrenergic antagonists within kratom. But I’m not sure why that would stand against the sentiments in the sentence you quoted? It seems quite clear that there is at least some correlation between use of opioid receptor agonists and a suppressed immune response.

    Catseye has attached a few good articles but there is another abstract here of a research piece concluding that morphine inhibits the production of cytokines, a cell produced as an inflammatory response to infection. So it does seem that the effect which opioids have on immune responses is well documented.

    Kratom, of course, has many more varied and as yet uncovered substances contained within it but SWIM’s anecdotal evidence is that the effect on immune responses to common colds etc. is much the same as that from typical opiates.
     
  7. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    Please don't link to external sources. Either upload the file to the File Archive or copy and paste the content into your post. Links go dead and divert traffic out of the forum.

    Uploaded to the File Archive: Morphine reduces local cytokine expression and neutrophil infiltration after incision

    Given the papers that catseye has provided, it would make sense that morphine (and possibly other exogenous opiate receptor agonists) would reduce cytokine production as they act as cytokines.

    This discussion is fascinating, but we are moving away from the original topic and more towards the pharmacology of opiate receptors. Perhaps we can start a new thread on the topic in the pharmacology forum.

    I am also interested in Maudlin_Fame's comment regarding adrenergic antagonists in kratom. I am unfamiliar with this. Again it is off topic, but I would appreciate some references. If anyone could find some, please upload them to the file archive or provide them in an appropriate thread on kratom pharmacology or chemical makeup.

    One last point that is on-topic, If opiate receptor agonists reduce immune response (as is well documented in the review by Bidlack that catseye provided), then how does this relate to the topic at hand? We are discussing reports of cold-like symptoms disappearing with kratom use. If we assume the symptoms associated with an immune response are dissappearing, then that makes sense. However, this would also mean that the cold itself should get worse as the immune response to the cold is being weakened. The reports are stating just the opposite. The comments by dyingtomorrow and dante suggest an increase in overall immune health. Something is obviously missing from this discussion.
     
  8. Heretic.Ape.

    Heretic.Ape. Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Hmm, not to be the fly in anyone's ointment, but monkey has been on kratom and fighting a pretty nasty cold for the past week. But I suppose he's only been taking it regularly for a few days and the cold was there first, perhaps it's helping in the battle. He reports his symptoms feeling better while on it at any rate, lol. That could, of course, simply be general "feel good" effects. For example, just from the time I've logged on, shortly after monkey took his first dose of the day, Monkey reports alleviation of symptoms.
    He'll keep an eye on his health over the next while. He tends to catch little bugs frequently, so an immune response boost should be noticeable over time. We'll be interested to hear more on this and will report any relevant anecdotal evidence that arises.

    ^
    I am considering splitting this thread as well. Or at least retitling it something more descriptive to what it's evolving into, re opioid receptors and health. I'm open to others--more knowledgeable on this area than myself--input on the matter ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2011
  9. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    The Dr. has been using Kratom regularly for about 6 years, he has had several doses of the flu, colds etc.
    Kratoms effects might mask some of the symptoms but it certainly does not Cure it.
    The Dr. also noted that when he was new to Kratom he could take it and it would help with some symptoms but the longer he has been using it the less benefits he gets from it when he is sick.
     
  10. _Dante_

    _Dante_ Silver Member

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    Well to clarify a few things from swim's initial post:

    Swim is reasonably new to kratom, and uses it infrequently. I.e. no tolerance.

    The first time swim noticed it work, was by accident. I.e. swim used a few grams recreationally and noticed his cold went. This was literally within an hour of taking it.

    Since then this has been tested a few more times.

    Twice it has got rid of the cold completely, within an hour, and it hasn't returned. Once it, with a lower dose, it alleviated the cold for a couple of hours, but it returned. However, given that three times it has worked so quickly and thoroughly, swim is truly shocked.

    Swim really hates colds, so finds this new 'cure' to be a blessing, and one that he will use more in the future!
     
  11. interlunar

    interlunar

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    SWIM would guess antioxidants found in the leaf as well.
     
  12. rapt0r

    rapt0r Silver Member

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    SWIM has noticed the same with kratom.
    Only 2-3g bali kratom is enough to cure cold.
    When SWIM feels shitty, has a runny nose etc, he takes 3g kratom and he is back to normal in like 1 hour. It's amazing.

    SWIM uses kratom maximum 2 times a week, his average dose is 5g.
     
  13. topher

    topher

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    SWIM has used kratom for about a year and a half. SWIM has only been sick once or twice, but these sicknesses were either short in duration or came about because he wasn't using kratom (w/d or weak immune system?). SWIM also recognizes that the more he uses kratom the less benefits he gets from it; tolerance rises, euphoria disappears, depression/anxiety increases, runny noses (not full-on colds), etc. no matter how high of a dose is taken.

    Perhaps the alkaloid raubasine lowers BP and might have adaptogenic properties. Clearly circumstantial. Just throwing it out there.
    This is very interesting stuff.
     
  14. anjinash

    anjinash Silver Member

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    SWIM gets colds every few months and he has been using Maeng-Da kratom daily for well over a year now. SWIM wonders if those who report complete success in eradicating their colds are using extracts or enhanced leaves? SWIM will only use extracts to supplement his Maeng-Da as a treat every now and then.

    SWIM also smokes about a pack and a half of cigarettes a day and generally doesn't pay much attention to keeping himself in good shape.. so that may play a part in this.
     
  15. Revolvingdoo

    Revolvingdoo

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    Not to poop on peoples parade or dismiss what they are saying but from a logical standpoint, could it be simply due to the analgesic effect of opiates/oids?
    I mean, the analgesia last significantly longer than the euphoric properties and colds are pretty short lived things at the best of times (referring to the worst/most intense symptoms), and opiates are more than equipped to deal with this level of discomfort.
    Is it not conceivable that its simply due to a person not noticing/feeling/caring about the symptoms over it actually curing?

    On the other hand it is possible that there is an anti-viral substance in the kratom, or that opioid's somehow bolster the immune system, HOWEVER Occam's razor dictates we look for the simplest answer right?
     
  16. sterling77

    sterling77 Iridium Member

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    Opiates are generally known to decrease immune function. So I would say no to this, unless I saw some information specific to kratom.
     
  17. DroolingLiver

    DroolingLiver Silver Member

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    My pikachu has had a bad cold the last few days and is about to take a dose of kratom. They've done this in the past and find that once it kicks in they feel pretty much back to normal and does help with the speed of recovery.

    This could be a "mind over matter" situation, where the overall relaxation and thinking of feeling better helps immensely. They also smoke later on, not just for the great synergy, but also because otherwise they will never get to sleep.

    Since this sleep is so long and deep, that also helps getting over the cold.

    Something that also ties in with this, is that if they overdo the kratom for several days, they have mild withdrawal symptoms which are the same as the beginning stage of a cold: cold sweats, aches, lethargy, lack of concentraion etc.

    Seems like a connection.
     
  18. eggs

    eggs Newbie

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    this is ridiculous. you were probably just too high to notice you were sick. there's plenty of information that says opiates can mask symptoms of serious diseases.

    telling people to shoot up at the first sign of an illness to "boost their immune system" is dangerous and stupid.

    to the op, no it didn't make you cold go away, it just covered the symptoms. like drinking dayquil, but probably more effective.
     
  19. _Dante_

    _Dante_ Silver Member

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    Can you please give an explanation for such a statement? What is the basis for your assumption?

    On the three occasions SWIM mentioned, he finds it hard to believe the kratom just covered the symptoms, as SWIM found once the kratom wore off, the cold was gone. (To illustrate the point, SWIM usually has colds for three or four days, whereas in all three cases they came for one day then disappeared around half an hour after dosing.)
     
  20. DroolingLiver

    DroolingLiver Silver Member

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    I posted in this thread several months ago about my pikachu experimenting with Kratom during a cold and found it did not help get rid of it.

    He has come to the conclusion that it will not help anyone's cold and the users who claim it does are not experiencing colds but withdrawals that seem to be colds.

    Just because use is only two or three times a week, dependance can set in. It may even be that not using for a couple of days, feeling the withdrawals, then using again and not experiencing withdrawals again may be an inadvertant taper.