Discussion in 'Kratom' started by t3rror, May 9, 2006.
any info about a mitragynine extraction from kratom?
has there been any successfull attempts?
I haven't heard of any extraction methods, but I haven't really looked. Although, there are vendors around that sell the extracted mitragynine, but it's pretty expensive. Really though, the 7-Hydroxy mitragynine and not the mitragynine is the really good stuff and is what's responsible for most of the psychoactive effects. You can also find that for sell, but once again: it's pretty expensive.
SWIM and a couple of his colleagues have tried mitragynine and 7-HO-mitragynine together in a mixture, and all concluded that somehing was missing from the "high" compared to kratom tea. Of note is the fact that one of these three likes the "sedative"-like qualities of kratom, whereas the other two prefer the "stimulant"-like properties. Does this possibly mean that part(s) of the subjective effects from kratrom are due to the other alkaloids present besides the two above-named?
I'm curious to read anyone's comments about the extracts of "the rest of" the alkaloids from kratom, or combinations with mitragynine extracts. Any effects?
SWIM experimented more with the tinctures of mitra. and 7 OH mitra. (see my post on the acetoxy mitragynine thread) and attempted to combine the two hoping for an interaction effect similar to kratom. with 5mg of 7-OH mitra and 50mg of Mitra. SWIM also found something to be missing from the experience compared to ingesting kratom leaves or resin. In particular, I feel the opiate-like effects were much more pronounced in 15-20g of leaf material than with the extracts alone. I found similar results from the first generation of 15x powder, which had enhanced amounts of mitragynine but not the other alkaloids. SWIM always assumed that it was the 7-OH mitra. that was missing, but it seems that there is more to this puzzle than that chemical alone, or that I was using an insignificant amount (but at $5 a mg SWIM can't afford any more). I see that a vendor has the "other alkaloids" found in kratom available as a tincture, but after being dissapointed with the tinctures in general I am reluctant to expeiment with this type of extract again. Does anyone know how much 7-OH is typically found in a gram of leaf material? I know It can't be a lot. Maybe there is another active alkaloid in kratom. Or, maybe there is another alkaloid(s) in kratom responsable for "enhancing" the effects of the 7-OH mitragynine on the opiod receptors. It seems clear from the research on mitragyinine and 7-OH mitra. that the 7-OH is much more responsible for the opiate activity, but if I recall correctly, the research said that they used up to 10mg/kg to achieve the strongest opiate agonist effects, which is ALOT more than anyone would get from the normal or even strong doses of kratom. Could it be that another alkaloid in kratom breaks down into 7-OH mitra in the body or Perhaps inhibits digestion of the 7-OH mitra. and therefore allows the chemical to be more active at lower doses....
Another novel idea would be evaporating the alcohol from these tinctures and using other modes of ingestion to introduce the chemical into the body such as insuffilation or freebase smoking, which might tell us something about the way the body digests it. For instance, cocaine is insuffilated or smoked as a free base because orally it is not very active. We know kratom is active orally, but perhaps the active alkaloids themselves are not...any one know someone who is willing to try this?
----update---I recently evaporated the alcohol from 20ml of the 90% mitragynine tincture (without using heat, of course) leaving approximately15-19mg of mitragynine. This brown powder was smoked and stimulant effects were noted. SWIM described the experience as quick and intense, leaving the tongue numb and a "speed-buzz" feeling that lasted for about 30 min. Interestingly, I was not able to obtain effects from oral doses of this amount of the same alcohol tincture, but found that using 50mg or more orally produced a similar but longer lasting effect. This suggests that while mitragynine and other chemicals in kratom ARE orally active, it is more efficient to administer the chemicals non-orally, bypassing the stomach and liver (more efficient, but not necessarily more enjoyable, safe or functional).
This research is only useful for those using a very pure extract, however, since the smoked experience is so short lived and it would take too long to smoke grams of 15x or other less potent materials. It is assumed that insuffilation of this mitragynine powder would produce similar effects, but the thought of brown, kratom tasting drip down SWIM's throat was too repulsive to attempt this. Those looking to replace a habit of smoking addictive chemicals such as cocaine-capped mj bowls or cigs may want to try substituting this evaporated, almost pure mitragaine product. someone may want to attempt a similar experiement with the pure 7-OH mitragynine tincture.