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Effects - kratom use and high blood pressure

Discussion in 'Kratom' started by trdofbeingtrd, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. trdofbeingtrd

    trdofbeingtrd Palladium Member

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    About three weeks ago, I noticed something disturbing about the effects that kratom is now giving me.

    I have lowered my dosage greatly. When I first started taking kratom for withdrawals from norcos (hydrocodone 10/325) I was taking 10g every 4 to 6 hours. One day I took the 10g in a dose and got REALLY messed up including throwing up. So I knew I had to lower it, fast forward a couple months later and I am taking 5 to 7g even after I stop taking the norcos.

    What I noticed though is recently, I take my 6 or 7 grams before going to work, then about 4 to 5 hours later take another 6 or 7 grams and everything is fine. However, when I am off of work, regardless if I take another 6 or 7 grams 4 to 5 hours to total three times taking the kratom, my blood pressure goes sky high.

    I thought at first this was happening because I was taking to much even in lowered doses. The problem was, I noticed that even if I didn't take it again that day, my blood pressure spikes.

    Does anyone know anything about this? Why is 2 times okay without spike in blood pressure but then 4 to 8 hours later I always get the spike in blood pressure?

    Oh, even after not taking the kratom for 3 to 8 days it still happens when I take the kratom again.
     
  2. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Ive no idea how i would even check my blood pressure at home.
    Ive often wondered if kratom has some effect on circulation or blood though. I regularly get very painfull legs from using (over using) kratom, and there has always been a noticable discomfort that lasts several weeks after stopping its use.

    Coupled with the RLS, and some other unusual issues in my legs ive wondered how kratom could be responsible. Perhaps it is a blood pressure issue?

    I think i would have to have myself tested though, to see an actual change in pressure first.

    Sorry i cant be of more help.
     
  3. Morrigan_la_Fey

    Morrigan_la_Fey Silver Member

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    I haven't the foggiest but I do notice a headache a few hours after my last dose. Now I'm wondering if that could be related as well. I don't have a cuff at home; I'm going to the doc tomorrow though, I can dose before I leave and see if my bp is up when she checks it, then let you guys know.
     
  4. Trancel0v3r

    Trancel0v3r Titanium Member

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    At a guess, SWIM thinks that regularly using something that lowers blood pressure, causes a spike in it in the hours/days afterwards in the withdrawal period, alcohol has been a huge problem for SWIM, after binge drinking for years, now after a very heavy session it spikes to dangerous levels, 170/115 is not uncommon.
    Regarding opiates he knows codeine lowers it and he believes that after stopping regular and or heavy usage it causes hypertension as a withdrawal symptom.
    Anyway my point is that this may be true for other opiates, or infact any substance that lowers it while under the influence of itself, hence why withdrawal effects are often the opposite of a drugs effects. I appreciate that while you may not be experiencing any noticable WD's, high blood pressure could still result if what I think is true. Hope this helps somewhat.....
     
  5. trdofbeingtrd

    trdofbeingtrd Palladium Member

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    I think I found the answer. According to a website that sadly has a vendor attached to it, if you use most stimulants combined with kratom, it can effect blood pressure and raise it. Which makes sense because I do have a LOT of caffeine because of working graveyard.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  6. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    That information is several years old (2004), its the basic kratom FAQ that vendors used to use.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  7. rawbeer

    rawbeer Titanium Member

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    I have combined Kratom with decent doses of caffeine (up to 5 cups of strong coffee, dosing w/ 3g or so of kratom within the hour) and never noticed anything. I've drank coffee while one Kratom but never more than 2 cups, and the effect was not noticeable. Once the Kratom takes effect I forget I've ever drank coffee, it gets buried under the much more pleasurable Kratom stimulation. Of course like Ian I have no idea how I would determine my blood pressure at home but I have never noticed any difference in effects from using Kratom baseline vs. with underlying strong caffeine stimulation.

    I don't know what my blood pressure is - the last time my doctor told me the number (about a year ago) I looked confused and she said "that's good, nothing to worry about". And I do not use Kratom daily - typically I use it 2-3 times a week. No history of habitual opiate use, regular drinker and cannabis user, light smoker.

    Anyway as someone who's combined Kratom and caffeine quite a few times I thought I'd mention that. I do tend to drink a little alcohol with kratom if I take it in the evenings so of course that could offset the blood pressure but I know I've taken Kratom right after coffee, not drank alcohol, and felt fine.

    Do you have high blood pressure in general? How are you measuring your blood pressure at home?
     
  8. trdofbeingtrd

    trdofbeingtrd Palladium Member

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    Considering I drink about 4 to 5 cups of coffee, and anywhere from 1 to 2 big cans of "rockstar" or 2 to 3 small cans of "rockstar" and have a heavy opiate use, I think that's possibly why, however I will check and see. I hear what you are saying about not having that problem, but maybe it's because I take kratom every day 3 to 5 times a day (although I have lowered my dosage amount drastically) that I am having this problem.

    I do not have high blood pressure as a rule, I am not able to measure it with a device, I just notice that suddenly I feel "odd" and then feel my pulse and it's VERY strong. I am guessing that if I buy a device from the local drug store I can put it down here or in a journal.
     
  9. Oxymorphone

    Oxymorphone Palladium Member

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    My friend has something to monitor blood pressure I believe, I'll ask him about it. I am a regular kratom user, a couple times a day almost every day. I can stop without withdrawal and I feel just fine, in fact lately I've been feeling better when I DONT take kratom. I attribute this to my blood pressure being high, headaches and tremors and such.

    A week and a half ago I cut two of my fingers pretty bad and had to go in to get stitches, they said my blood pressure was sky high. Now, over the last few months I have taken up drinking Energy drinks, usually one a day but sometimes two which was a habit I had some time ago and got out of. No doubt this has had an effect as well.. I actually found this thread as the first thing searching google for any links between high blood pressure and kratom use.

    Comparing trd's experience with my own makes this seem pretty likely and if so is an ACTUAL potential danger of Kratom.

    First thing I'll do is find out if he's actually got the blood pressure monitoring equipment, I can't exactly recall if he said that or ... if I just heard it hehe. I will likely have to quit taking Kratom very soon because of a LOT of financial difficulties so when I do Ill try to monitor my blood pressure at a few points in this process provided I'm able (doctors already robbed me blind, 2 ER charges, BS, long story) but to the best of my ability to do so I'll monitor it and I'll post about it here if I see a connection.

    Now I don't know how useful this will be since I did mention I've been drinking energy drinks and I'm probably also going to stop drinking those, even sooner than I can monitor I think, as they don't do their job and .. well I've known it's bad for me for years. ;) I wish I could monitor the effect from that more accurately so I could properly attribute any rise or fall to kratom... but what can ya do.

    ---UPDATE---
    I'm not going to reply because this isn't really very useful.

    I guess I just wanna post an update on this. My friend let me use his equipment twice and then I had a hell of a time getting ahold of him. I guess he changed his mind on letting me use it. Now he's gone and moved to Portland.

    I could go to wal mart and measure my blood pressure there, but I'm just not willing to do that. I try to avoid the wal mart here at all costs, because the last few times I went there I was 'followed' back to my car by a bunch of people who don't even speak english - only time I've really been able to get there is at night, and oil country is pretty messed up. Anyway...

    He shared his experience with me, in that Kratom did indeed lower his high blood pressure, which is the opposite of what I expected. However, he is nowhere near the user I am and so I'm not sure that's too helpful in the long-term. My own tests showed no change in blood pressure from quitting, but this only covered a span of 5 days and while my Kratom consumption stopped, my caffeine consumption didn't - this makes me lean more towards caffeine (energy drinks) being the culprit more than the Kratom. That's just my guess, though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2012
  10. DiabolicScheme

    DiabolicScheme Titanium Member

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    Interesting, for me it *feels* like Kratom lowers my blood pressure but I haven't checked while using it. I'll have to check my blood pressure when I'm on it and see if mine also increases.
     
  11. Fanatexe

    Fanatexe Silver Member

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    I haven't ever had a problem with high blood pressure, but i took mine the other day and it was a little high, the mouse in my garage takes kratom on a daily basis and was curious if Kratom is bad to take daily? He's taken Bali for several months and occasionally some Maeng Da, but the past couple weeks he's upped his kratom use to every day opposed to once every three or four days. Hopefully his kratom use doesn't have anything to do with this high blood pressure.
     
  12. trdofbeingtrd

    trdofbeingtrd Palladium Member

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    If done responsibly, kratom every day is not by any means deadly, and from what I understand, basically safe. Please understand that I intake a lot of caffeine and I have asthma medication that has ephedrine. The responses I got can give you some information about it.
     
  13. seaturtle

    seaturtle Titanium Member

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    SWIM has combined amphetamine with Kratom dozens of times and it's never been bad. Usually when SWIM is coming down and wants to feel better (T+~8 hours) but of course there's still plenty of amphetamine in the blood even at that point. Also SWIM often takes amphetamine+caffeine and then runs for 1-3 hours in the morning after a heavy Kratom dosage less than 12 hours before. BTW SWIM is talking about small dosages of Adderall, not meth!

    SWIM has also combined Kratom and Cocaine and it was pretty damn good, but SWIM wouldn't recommend coke in general, worthless and expensive at the same time. Kratom is great to get rid of the coked out feeling is all SWIM is saying, and doesn't automatically kill SWIM at least (but SWIM has done that a few times or less).
     
  14. Bamerit

    Bamerit Silver Member

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    High blood pressure will generally give no signs or symptoms, therefore unless you are measuring your blood pressure with a machine, its highly likely that your symptoms are related to something else entirely.
    However, i have a blood pressure machine at home and will measure my monkeys bp before, during and after he takes kratom just out of interest and will post back to see if there is any correlation between kratom and high bp...
     
  15. FREEBIRD222

    FREEBIRD222 Silver Member

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    This is interesting…..I am in the process of quitting a one year romance with kratom (the last 6 months has been twice per day at 7-8g). I have developed varicose veins and very high blood pressure in the last year. I have always have LOW BLOOD PRESSURE my entire life. This is genetic as both of my parents and most siblings have low BP as well. I run between 30-40 miles per week and rarely sit for more than 2-3 hours at work per day…..this is STRANGE.

    It has caused me to suspect a relationship with kratom and high blood pressure . I have no proof, but please keep an eye on it if you use kratom regularly. Especially if you already have high BP !
     
  16. FREEBIRD222

    FREEBIRD222 Silver Member

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    OK…..so now this gets even stranger…..my sister has been using a small dose (3g) of kratom daily for around the same time frame as I did ( little over a year).

    She has just noticed the gigantic size of her veins as well…..maybe this isn't going to occur in ALL kratom users….but in those of us with a genetic propensity for varicose veins?

    This is too important to not mention here…..PLEASE BE CAREFUL WITH DAILY KRATOM USE !

    I am on day 14 without it and things keep getting better. I don't feel "out of the woods" yet….but I am getting there. I sure hope the vein issue dissipates at some point. I really, really don't want to have to mention it to my doc. I know she has NO FREAKIN' CLUE what kratom is…...
     
  17. Cattle-n-HorseRancher

    Cattle-n-HorseRancher Newbie

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    Wild cherry bark will help very much in lowering your blood pressure and keeping it stable.
    Sometimes mine goes upward and I make a tea. 1 tsp to 8 ounces of hot water. Don't let it boil though. Steep in hot water for 20 minutes and strain and drink it. Hope you feel better soon.
     
  18. snowdrop

    snowdrop Silver Member

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    My friend feels that it slightly lowers blood pressure if anything. This is just anecdotal, no proof or anything as she doesn't have one of those little blood pressure devices at home.

    Withdrawal can put blood pressure up for a lot of things. It makes sense it goes the opposite way to the effect the actual thing has when your monkeys take it.
     
  19. AMKR

    AMKR Newbie

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    I have Stage 2 HBP/Hypertension controlled by Telmisartan {Micardis} or Coozar {Valsartan} - Telmisartan I prefer but I have to buy it myself out of pocket from online pharmacies, because its the newest most effacious ARB {Angiotensin II Receptor Blocker} - my family doesn't tolerate ACE Inhibitors and Beta Blockers arent first line plus they make me sleepy. Micardis makes me wanna get up and go exercise and get on with my day. It's the most effacious out of all the ARBs and has added benefits of PPAR beta/delta modulation and AMPk activation for fat loss and endurance [among other things] which is unique to Micardis.

    I've also been on stimulants basically my whole life for ADHD [60mg Vyvanse now, 10-20mg Dexedrine IR/ER as needed - which is almost never, just kinda stack/stash em lol, used to be on Ritalin as a kid - hated it, don't remember why because I was too young to remember way back then, I think I said it gave me headaches. Never tried Concerta or Focalin - although I am curious to try one of the non-amphetamine stimulants for ADD [or combined with amphetamine] someday.

    Also I recreationally trip out on basically everything. Used to use A-PVP and Spice [but I quit thank god]. And I was always a huge coffee / energy drink / soda guy until I was diagnosed with HBP now I try and stay away from that stuff, except preworkout. And of course I smoke weed, looking into a medical card now.

    Anyway. I just took some kratom and its kicked in [and havent taken any amphetamine today] I did take some valium and my Valsartan for BP [but only 40mg, which I usually take more} and only got 3 hours of sleep last night, so keep that in mind. Off topic for a second, but isn't it a bitch how you can go into the psychiatrist like, I dont like adderal - its too hard on my body, and wears me out [or anything like that] - could I try dexedrine or vyvanse instead? And its like boom script change your good. Blood pressure meds - such a different game. If the cheapest generic {valsartan} keeps it under control, even if you prefer the most effacious one {telmisartan} which has longevity effects aswell as increasing endurance and fat loss, theres nothing you can do unless the Valsartan stops working. And even then id have to try EVERY ARB before I could get Micardis Rx'd. Its sad really - the patient should decide what's best for him, not the other way around [unless were talkin deadly stuff] - aight sorry back on topic.

    but I can take it using my home moniter. Personally I feel like it lowers my blood pressure, I dont get that pressure behind the eyes, aggitation, etc - signs my BP is too high.

    Also the veins being huge - correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Kratom act [either directly or indirectly] as a Vasodialtor? Either through is adrenergic properties or releasing nitric oxide? That could be why you're noticing huge veins with a strong pulse [which strong pulse alone you can't trust to be an indicator of hypertension, you could just be tachycardic or any number of reason [like I take Beberine - it makes your pulse stronger, controls blood sugar/increases insulin sensitivity and will lower your blood pressure over time]

    100 / 82 with a Pul./Min of 74 - perfect for me - and I took approx 6 grams of kratom, valium lingering from last night and some tramadol aswell. Could skewed the results but I wanted to post something since I have a cuff and just hit the effects of Kratom [Horned Maeng Da Farm Grade]. If I had taken my vyvanse or dexedrine - it would be higher.

    [surprised Berberine must really be working along with other supplements and working out - I usually need much more than 40 to get to where I want to be]
     
  20. Cousin Merle

    Cousin Merle Titanium Member

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    This is an older post, but still valid, so I'll add my 2 cents in.

    First of all, most of the time you can't "feel" if you have high blood pressure, you need to measure it to tell for sure. I've always had good blood pressure, but lately it has been high- not all the time, but it spikes from time to time. I've been taking kratom daily for 2 years, and this has only started recently, so I highly doubt it is due the kratom. I work in a hospital, so I can go measure my BP as often as I want, plus there is a BP cuff at my gym that I use. I've done some tests - taking a dose of kratom, waiting 1-2 hours and then measuring my BP. Usually it is normal. Some types of kratom seem to lower my BP if anything - for example kratom stem & vein - I've done a few tests with that, measuring my BP and it seems to lower it somewhat.

    It may also depend on what type of kratom you use and what dose- some types are more stimulating, and could in theory raise BP. Large doses of caffeine and other stimulants can definitely raise BP.

    I would say, if you already have high blood pressure, and want to use kratom, you should closely monitor your BP while you are using kratom to see if it has any effects on it.