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Kratom users guide

Discussion in 'Kratom' started by Alfa, Dec 2, 2004.

  1. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    What is kratom?
    Kratom is a tree native to Southeast Asia (Thailand, Malaysia, Myanmar, and elsewhere). Its botanical name is Mitragyna speciosa. Kratom is in the same family as the coffee tree (Rubiaceae). The leaves of kratom have been used as an herbal drug from time immemorial by peoples of Southeast Asia. It is used as a stimulant (in low doses), sedative (in high doses), recreational drug, pain killer, medicine for diarrhea, and treatment for opiate addiction.


    How is it taken?
    In Thailand, kratom leaves are usually chewed fresh (usually after removing the stringy central vein). Dried leaves can also be chewed, but since they are a bit tough, most people prefer to crush them up or powder them first. Dried kratom leaves are often made into a tea that is strained and then drunk. Kratom can be smoked, but doing so has no advantage over chewing or making a tea from it. The amount of leaf that constitutes a typical dose is too much to be smoked easily. A paste-like extract can be prepared by lengthy boiling of fresh or dried leaves. This can be stored for later use. Small pellets of this extract can be swallowed, or it can be dissolved in hot water and consumed as a tea. Some people like to mix kratom tea with ordinary black tea, or other herbal teas, before it is consumed. This is done to make it more palatable. Sugar or honey can be added to sweeten it.


    How does one make kratom tea?
    Following is a basic recipe for making kratom tea:
    awww.sagewisdom.org_dot_clea.gif 1.) Take 50 grams of dried, crushed kratom leaves and put into a pot. To this add 1 liter of water.
    awww.sagewisdom.org_dot_clea.gif 2.) Boil gently for 15 minutes.
    awww.sagewisdom.org_dot_clea.gif 3.) Pour the tea through a strainer into a bowl and reserve the liquid.
    awww.sagewisdom.org_dot_clea.gif (squeeze the leaves in the strainer to get most of the liquid out).
    awww.sagewisdom.org_dot_clea.gif 4.) Put the leaves back in the pot and add another liter of fresh water. Repeat steps 2 and 3.
    awww.sagewisdom.org_dot_clea.gif (after the leaves have been strained a second time, they can be discarded.)
    awww.sagewisdom.org_dot_clea.gif 5.) Put the combined liquid from both boilings back into the pot and boil until the volume is reduced to about 100 ml.


    The same general preparation method can of course be used with larger or smaller amounts of herb by simply adjusting the volume of water used. Kratom tea can be safely stored in the refrigerator for about five days. It is probably okay to keep it a bit longer, but it's better to play it safe and not drink it after five days. It can be stored for many months if you add some alcohol to it. Adding about 10% alcohol will preserve it for many months (in the refrigerator). That is one part 80 proof vodka (whisky, rum, vodka, or a similar spirit) to three parts kratom tea.


    If a tea is made from 50 grams of dried leaves. Dosage may vary from 1/10 the tea prepared to yield a threshold dose, to 1/2 the tea for a strong dose, to all the tea for an extremely strong dose.


    What are the effects?
    Kratom is a rather unique drug in that a low to moderate dose will usually (but not always) be stimulating, while a high dose is almost always quite sedating. This is apparently because the active alkaloids (primarily mitragynine) have both stimulant and sedative effects. Which predominates probably depends both on blood level and individual differences between users.


    The stimulant level: At the stimulant level the mind is more alert, physical energy and sometimes sexual energy is increased, ability to do hard monotonous physical work may be improved, one is more talkative, friendly, and sociable. Some people find this level edgy rather than pleasant.


    The sedative-euphoric-analgesic level: At this dosage you will be less sensitive to physical or emotional pain, feel and look calm, have a general feeling of comfortable pleasure, and may enter a pleasant dreamy reverie. You may experience some itching or sweating. Your pupils may be constricted (small). It is possible you may feel nauseated, but if you lie down the nausea should quickly cease. You may find your appreciation of music is increased. It will be very pleasant to lie down on your back in a semi-darkened room, with eyes closed, and just listen to your favorite music. If you do this you may be fortunate enough to enter the delightful mixed-state of ‘waking-dreaming’ where you have one foot in dreamland and the other foot in the real world. This state was much prized by the 19th century Romantic writers, who, lacking knowledge of kratom, resorted to the much more habit-forming narcotic, opium, to achieve it. The effects of kratom usually last about six hours. The higher the dose, the stronger the effects, and the longer they last. Many people report a positive ‘afterglow’ the next day.


    What are the risks? How safe is it?
    If kratom is chewed or taken as a tea by itself (without mixing it with other drugs), the greatest risk is falling asleep while engaged in hazardous activities. NEVER drive while under the influence of kratom, even if you feel stimulated, rather than sleepy, for sleepiness may come on you without warning. Use common sense. Do not use power tools, or climb ladders while under the influence of kratom. Be careful not to leave a pot on a lit stove and then fall asleep.


    Pregnant women should not take any drug or medication except on medical advice. Since there have been no studies of the risks of kratom use by pregnant women, it is not known whether it could cause birth defects or fetal death. We strongly recommend that any woman who could possibly be pregnant NOT use kratom."


    Is kratom habit forming?
    Although a small number of people have become dependent on kratom (primarily in Thailand), kratom is not habit forming when it is used responsibly. If used occasionally as a recreational drug, rather than daily, there is virtually no risk of becoming dependent on it. But it is very important not to get into the habit of using it every day. For kratom, like many drugs [e.g. alcohol, coffee, tobacco, etc.] if used on a daily basis for a prolonged period of time, could become a habit hard to break. IT IS IMPORTANT NOT TO USE KRATOM EVERY DAY. Before starting to experiment with it set yourself usage guidelines. If you EVER find it is hard to stay within your usage guidelines immediately quit using kratom.


    What are safe usage guidelines?
    It is best to ere on the side of caution. Do not use Kratom more than once a week. Preferably, no more than once or twice a month. This will insure that Kratom does not become a habit. In other words, kratom should be reserved as a special, but OCCASIONAL treat. By using it infrequently, you will avoid habituation and get more pleasure from it.


    Are there any reported health problems?
    Health problems are unlikely unless one is consuming large quantities of kratom every day. In Thailand, where there are some people who use kratom every day, those dependent on it can develop weight loss, dark pigmentation of the face, and have physical withdrawal symptoms if they quit abruptly. The withdrawal symptoms may include muscle aches, irritability, crying, runny nose, diarrhea, and muscle jerking. Health problems are unlikely to occur in occasional kratom users. Like any drug or medicine, people's reactions vary and some people could possibly have an allergic or other unusual reaction to kratom, even if they used it responsibly.


    Can kratom be combined safely with other substances?
    In general, combining drugs can be risky. We recommend that kratom not be combined with yohimbine, cocaine, amphetamine-like drugs, or large doses of caffeine, because of the possibility of over-stimulation or increased blood pressure. We recommend that kratom not be combined with large amounts of alcohol, with benzodiazepines, opiates (other than possible use with red poppy tea—see below), or any other drugs that depress the nervous system. This is because of the possibility that such combinations might cause over-sedation or even possible respiratory depression (not breathing), We recommended that kratom not be combined with Syrian rue, Banesteriopsis caapi, or any other MAO inhibitor drug. Serious, even fatal, reactions can occur if MAO inhibitor drugs are combined with monoamine drugs. The combination of MAO inhibitor drugs with kratom, which contains monoamine alkaloids, has not been studied.


    Certain combinations have been reported by users to be pleasant and supposedly safe. Kratom can certainly be combined with ordinary tea without risk. It has been used with a tea made from red poppy flowers (Papaver rhoeas), which itself has an extremely mild narcotic effect, and with a sedating-euphoriant tea made from ‘blue lotus’ (Nymphaea caerulea). It has been safely combined with SMALL quantities of alcohol, however large quantities of alcohol must be avoided. Some people report they like to smoke tobacco or cannabis while under the influence of kratom. But anyone smoking under the influence of kratom must be very careful not to nod off and drop lit smoking materials.


    What is kratom's legal status?
    Kratom is illegal in Australia, Malaysia, Myanmar, and Thailand (these countries impose sever penalties for possession of the herb). It is legal in most other countries, including the United States and all of Europe. Laws can and do change, so be sure that kratom is legal where you live before using it.


    What are kratom's active constituents?
    There are many closely-related tryptamine alkaloids in kratom. The most important one is mitragynine, which is primarily responsible for kratom’s pain relieving, sedative, euphoric, and stimulating effects. Mitragynine resembles yohimbine in structure, but does not have the same effects.


    Where can kratom be purchased?
    There are a number of online merchants who sell the dried leaves, extracts, or both.


    Can kratom be cultivated?
    Kratom plants can be purchased from some online merchants and botanical supply houses. They can be grown as house plants (but will have to be cut back because they can grow quite large). They can be grown under florescent lights. They do not tolerate frost, but can be grown outdoors in pots in summer in temperate climates. They can be grown outdoors all year in frost-free climates, provided the humidity is not too low. They should be lightly fertilized every few weeks. They can be propagated from cuttings.
     
  2. nEone

    nEone Gold Member

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    So - I have been looking around at all of the various threads on teas and microwaving in vodka etc.

    This recipe is the clearest - but the dosage seems...off.

    For T&W...I find that 7-8g of Bali powder is pretty good. With that as a measure - I would figure 50g of crushed leaf would make 5 servings of tea. I was hoping that the tea process would make Kratom a little more economical...

    But the recipe above suggests that 50g of leaf is equivalent to around 2-3 servings. (or ten baseline servings, which is also a little weird.)

    I have recently procured 50g of crushed bali leaf. Working off of a 5 serving estimate - and shooting for a regular 10oz cup of tea....that comes out to about 1.5L. Swim figures he'll do two 1L simmer/boils, combine those efforts and then reduce down to 1.5L with further simmering if needed.

    Is SWIM correct in assuming that the boil should be kept just above a simmer and that a more robust "rolling" boil will impair the Kratom's effects?

    Will adding lemon juice help in the extraction...or just with the flavor? I plan on adding sliced fresh ginger to the final boil for flavor.

    Thoughts?
     
  3. Panic_Upset

    Panic_Upset Silver Member

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    As far as Jupiter is concerned, taking Kratom in tea form in the same weight as the toss and wash method, or capsules will result in a lesser effect due to a smaller amount of the active ingredient having been extracted from the product (Kratom). Toss & Wash and the Capsule method (approx. equal in strength) provides a more potent and euphoric experience. Of course this is dependent on the constant(s) that the Kratom is from the exact same batch, weight, and production method (powdered, crushed, or perhaps from resin. I know that this may sound somewhat of a downhill ramble and I'm sorry but I do have the best intentions in mind.

    May the peace be with you,

    - Jupiter Out
     
  4. DXMBunny

    DXMBunny Silver Member

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    If you are like swim and can not stand the texture or to much of the taste of the powder... or... are confused how people can eat the leaves... and don't like tea or dont feel the tea is worth it..

    well take swims advice he has found that one the best mixers is applesauce... it mixes well and masks all of the texture and most of the taste...

    as second runner up that I use is yogurt...

    both can sometimes look a bit nasty but taste good and easy to get down without wasting product or trying to capsule...

    use two parts apple sauce to 1 part kratom... for best mix...

    I have tried many of the other ways... toss and wash... tea... chewing... and just could not seem to figure out how to get it into his system...

    so if your having the problems I did... give apple sauce a try!!!
     
  5. Synchronium

    Synchronium Palladium Member

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    I think its opioid nature should be mentioned, in the interests of harm reduction.

    People who've had previous opiate addictions may then decide to steer clear.
     
  6. Rob Cypher

    Rob Cypher Titanium Member

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    I know this thread hasn't been updated for a while, but I have skepticism towards claims regarding
    kratom interacting with opiate receptors or causing issues with people that have opiate addictions.
    Both my experience and the experiences of associates seem to disagree with this line of thought.
     
  7. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Ive been using kratom for 8 years.
    There are threads here going back longer.

    These statements are factual, this has been documented for a long time.

    You seem to be ignoring all the posts in this forum from hundreds of people who have been using kratom, and thousands elsewhere on the internet, in favour of 2 experiences you had. Im not sure why?

    Edit*
    Its clear now after reading your post in another thread.
    You took between .5 grams and 1 gram of plain leaf kratom in capsules.
    This is not enough to feel it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  8. Rob Cypher

    Rob Cypher Titanium Member

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    I do see it has some interaction with mu-opiate receptors; not sure what that means however.

    I will withdraw my previous statement of skepticism.
     
  9. nontask

    nontask Newbie

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    I've heard that its not bad in coffee. Some say they couldn't even taste it. Worth a try
     
  10. soulsy11

    soulsy11 Newbie

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    I find it funny when people who are *pro* something, never consider the as above, so below aspect of all things in life. Obviously something that creates such a pleasurable endorphin release as Kratom is going to have withdrawal symptoms when you stop regular use. Welcome to being human. When one has had Kratom less times in ones life than fingers on ones hand, they don't have the personal experience to conclusively say that kratom is not addictive. I have heard it said many times, even compared to coffee withdrawals. These are obviously statements from people who sell kratom (I myself am a vendor in Canada) it's a marketing tactic or a defensive function of the human ego. Why don't people ever consider the dark side of the what they love? This is precisely how toxic relationships and drug addictions are formed. They are very,very similar and go hand in hand.
     
  11. daisy123

    daisy123 Newbie

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    I enjoy my kratom with V8. I put the V8 & kratom in a shaker, shake vigorously... it blends perfectly... and enjoy my little cocktail ;)
     
  12. Sybil OG

    Sybil OG Silver Member

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    Has kratom not since been banned in both Canada and the UK?
     
  13. Mis8y

    Mis8y Newbie

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    I purchased Kratom to get off loperamide (doing a taper). Unfortunately they came in capsule form. How many capsules would I need to take to be effective? I tried 3 to 4 at a time but I didn't feel much when I cut my taper in half. Maybe it did constipate me some (sorry). Any advice is appreciated as I have no clue about this stuff but have it and want to utilize it. It came in a few packages of white red vein and green I believe.
     
  14. Sybil OG

    Sybil OG Silver Member

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    Hi. It really does depend. How much immodium were you on? And also, there's no one size fits all dose of kratom. You must experiment with it. It does sound as if you could go up gradually on your kratom dose. Lopes are very hard to get off of, much like methadone bc of the long half life. But knowing your lope dose would be helpful.
    Best of luck. Please look up a thread on here called The Loperamide Diaries. They are brilliantly and poetically written, and may help you.
    Best of luck. Others have done it, so it is haveable, just do not give up.
     
  15. Mis8y

    Mis8y Newbie

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    Thank you for the response!! Heres my story in short that i will copy and post. Never tried getting off of anything else except hydros in my past. Had a very hifh tolerance for it.

    I am trying to taper off lops and hoping that it Can be done. I am a single parent who co owns a business and I just simply cannot afford to be that sick. Long story short. My addiction was always hydros for many years I would get them and run out...rinse and repeat. Well I finally got off and had a baby got married ECT. Then I got divorced and went through a huge custody battle and well it was horrific! So I slipped but basically from Tylenol 3's because it was the only thing I could get. Wasn't probably going to be a bad at all but anything uncomfortable was not an option. Then I found lops online and went from about 20 a day to increasing probably 80 or sometimes more a day. Just don't know. My addict personality went above the top thinking it was safer. So now about 7 months later I decided to do a taper about 2 1/2 weeks ago. I basically made a cut in half. Here is where I am stuck and terrified. I don't feel exactly great at say 16, 17 a day so I decided to try at 30 every other day and taper 1 or 2 each time. So I am stuck at either one of these options. I had come so far from my addiction from a long time ago. I saw and felt life and I need it back again. Only to discover I probably picked up the worst of All of them. How stupid can I be? Again I want to come off. But I cannot be sick in bed with an active mild spectrum autistic toddler whom I share custody of. I also have a teenage daughter who's wonderful. I am so disappointed in myself. Life Was tough. Probably the toughest ever and I knew better! Again it's not something I enjoy. Oh btw we just lost insurance so going to a Dr is Not an option. I know how this works (not lops) but I am no stranger to hydro wd. I successfully got off hydros with a help of a Dr on suboxone a long time ago. Didn't like that but did enough to get off. Then got on ldn for awhile. Then nothing for years. That Dr hired me to come in and work for my testimony and I did when I could. It's like I am a complete success when I can actually do something and a complete failure when I can't. Story of my life lol. Starting a new chapter in my life and I don't want to be here but I am. So if anyone has any advice or can tell/advise me what I am dealing with at this point that would be great. What do I do stuck at this point? I believe I can go every other day because of the long half life right? Or am I wrong? Good or bad idea? Also ordered kratom caps of 3 diff stains and I took some when I made the 1/2 cut however I can say I don't think I feel anything except more constipation. But I do have some if y'all think it can be hopeful once I get to a Very low dose. I have put on a few pounds from this damn drug and I was a very health conscious woman who takes great care of herself. So that will be a plus to have my bowels back and not worried about that but ready for it. Thanks all and I have been reading all y'alls stories...for awhile now actually...and just finally signed up for help/direction. I seem to be an expert at stalking forums for as much info as I can find. Read them all but think it's time for some human contact lol.
     
  16. Mis8y

    Mis8y Newbie

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    Oh and Sybil the kratom I have is...each packet is capsules. Probably about 50 caps. It says it is 28 grams. So the conversion of it for me complicated especially not knowing what base I should start at.
     
  17. Mis8y

    Mis8y Newbie

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    Cannot seem to find that thread when I search The lopermide diaries. Learning to get around on here still though.
     
  18. Sybil OG

    Sybil OG Silver Member

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    Well, you're correct in saying that you picked the worst of them all. Going on lopes to get off hydros is a bit like getting a rash on your pinky and chopping off the arm to get rid of it. I say this bc lope, having such a long half life, are extremely hard to get off of. The Detox can take months. To answer your question, yes you could go to every other day. But I have other suggestions.
    Kratom is great, but not sure it's going to be all that helpful just yet. Lope Detox can last months and that's just the acute part, not accounting for Paws. Lopes can also kill you.
    Understanding that you, like myself, are a business owner who can ill afford time off, I have 2 other suggestions to get off the lopes since ct is definitely not an option.
    The first suggestion is to get back on any type of opiate you can, if you can. Stay on a few months to get all of the lopes out of your system, tapering as you go, then when you get as low as you can stand, introduce the kratom and gradually get on only kratom. Taper from there.
    Second suggestion, look for a free methadone clinic in your area, and get on it. Hell pay for it if you must. Again, keep your dose as low as possible, taper, then go to kratom, then taper and stop.
    I rarely would say get on methadone. I regard it as a very last course, even after opiates, but it is not as dangerous as lopes. They can kill you. Horrible for your heart. And by hook or crook, you must get an appointment with a cardiologist to see if you already have damage and are you in danger. Good news is even if that's the case, you have your youth on your side, and there's a whole lot can be done to help a bad heart these days.
    I highly suggest that you find a free health clinic. Go in and be blatantly honest with them. Even have articles readily available about loperamide addiction and the dangers in case the Dr hasn't yet heard of it. Even the free health clinics, often funded by the county you live in, or Catholic charities, often refer and pay for you to see specialists such as cardiologists.
    I'm not trying to scare you, but this is the reality of the situation. You are strong enough to beat this. Believe in yourself! And if for no other reason, do it for your child.
    Prepare for the fight of your life, for your life. I'm here if you need me. I am very sympathetic to your dilemma, even if sugar coating isn't my strong suit.
    One silly little thing that's been helping me in my methadone detox is rewarding myself for small milestones. My rewards are on a budget and consist of things like checking out an audio book from the library for free, cheap facials or pedicures at a beauty college, or even getting a new haircut or color for free by volunteering at local upscale Salons to model for then. Even a heapy cheapy shopping spree at places like Ross Dress for Less with $5-$10 budgets. Just give yourself something to look forward to.
    Also, you mentioned some unwanted pounds. Fortunately, exercise is one of the best things to do for both acute detox and PAWS.
     
  19. Sybil OG

    Sybil OG Silver Member

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    I can't anymore either. Hopefully, someone who's been around longer than I will pop in and direct us. :)
    I need to go for now, but feel free to pm me any time. Best of luck.
     
  20. Mis8y

    Mis8y Newbie

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    Ya that scares me. Know your just being real though. I cannot get those scripts around here and do not want to get on methadone. I just came out of a legal battle that put my whole life under a microscope and would rather be on my death bed then to get caught in any of that anymore. Luckily during that time this was not a struggle. Shit...hearing this makes me want to go balls to the wall and cut in half again! Is it realistic to taper? I cannot believe I got caught up in this!! Especially having no clue on this type of wd' S. Hydros were hard enough. Hoping I can trick up my body some with tapering. What I do have is kratom and clonidine. Other then that that's it.