Dose - kratom....what am I doing wrong with dose?

Discussion in 'Kratom' started by twixler, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. twixler

    twixler Newbie

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    A friend of a friend asked me to write this:
    Hi all,
    I'm a newbie here and have been stalking this site for a few weeks learning all that I can about kratom. This is such an informative site and I thank everyone who has shared experiences because it has helped me tremendously to learn! I apologize if this post is long, I want to make sure I give as much info as I can so I can get the most accurate answers in return.
    I am a former opiate user, clean for 6 months but experiencing a big lack of motivation, I'm used to the euphoria and energy I got from opiates and without them I find it hard to do just about anything. I also suffer from social problems without the opiates. (nothing is fun)
    Hence, the kratom discovery.
    I have been experiencing with kratom for two weeks trying to achieve a sense of well- being and overall improved mood/energy I have read so much about.
    I must be doing something wrong, or perhaps I expect too much because its not happening for me.
    I have really done my research on this site and tried many different methods:
    I have tried red vein, maeng da and white vein, the white put me to sleep.
    I have tried T&W with grapefruit and orange juice, also T&W with my morning green juice, I have tried mixing with fruit juice (grapefruit AND orange juice) in a shaker and drinking, I have tried making tea, furthermore, I have added tumeric, tried grapefruit juice 1/2 hour before kratom, also taking DL phenylalanine and vitamin C. The only results are weight gain from all the damn sugar in fruit juice!
    Let me add that I have bought from reputable sources, and more than one different source.
    I do not have a scale and before you all jump on me about not having one :) I cannot have one as my mate will probably leave me if he sees me weighing out an herb.
    I use a regular teaspoon or tablespoon from my everyday silverware drawer (so you have an idea of size).
    I use about one level tablespoon. I have tried less and I have tried more. I have also tried and then again in two hours and again in two more hours.......
    I dont know what else I can do?
    I am open to any suggestions and could really use some guidance.
    One more thing..... I thought perhaps I noticed a bit of a surge in energy after the VERY first time however could have just been the placebo effect as it never occurred again.

    Thanks all.
     
  2. Potter

    Potter Platinum Member & Advisor

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    you need a scale to measure drugs, get one.

    Read the guides at the top of the forum. Beyond that, not everyone likes every drug.
     
  3. twixler

    twixler Newbie

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    sorry, the guides? Forgive me if I sound ignorant but this is my first post and although I have read all the rules and much conversation on this forum I'm still not familiar with the placement of everything on the site.
    Thanks.
     
  4. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Yes, without knowing how much you are taking by weighing it properly then the reason is probably because you arte not taking enough.
    Get a digital scale and weigh out 5 grams and take that on am empty stomach.
    If that does not produce the effects you are after then try more the next time.
    Experiment with doses and strains until you find what you want. If you don't then you either have bunk kratom or you are expecting too much.

    A guide to buying kratom (also contains information on weighing) https://drugs-forum.com/threads/200101
     
  5. seaturtle

    seaturtle Titanium Member

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    I dose with a spoon too, but it's important to measure how much Kratom is in each spoonful. The best bet is to get a digital scale, but since you don't want to get a digital scale, then you can you can use a postal scale or any other simple scale to estimate how much is in each spoonful. Of course there will be some variation from this estimate depending on how level each spoonful is.

    Another simpler option is taking your bag of Kratom and completely emptying it into another container one level spoonful at a time, and then dividing the weight of the Kratom bag by the number of level spoonfuls.

    1 teaspoon is probably a low amount... I generally dose 5-8 teaspoons. Teaspoons have no standard size though, so it's impossible to compare doses with teaspoons, i.e. my teaspoon is different than your teaspoon. Thus it's very important you measure how much is in each spoonful.

    5 grams is a good starting dose, but if that doesn't work increase by a couple grams each time until you reach your desired state. Going over 15 grams is not recommended, 10-12 grams is the max one should take at a time. Kratom's effects tend to get less enjoyable when you use too much, possibly due to an opioid antagonist alkaloid which is present in Kratom.

    It's possibly you got bad Kratom if a dose of ~10 grams doesn't do much. Good Kratom can hit you hard at 5+ grams with no tolerance. Even 2-3 grams would be quite noticeable with no tolerance.

    It's also possible you have a permanent opioid tolerance from your past opiate usage, what opiates did you use and in what quantity?
     
  6. twixler

    twixler Newbie

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    Hi Turtle,
    Thanks for your response.
    Maybe I'm not taking enough, I will have to break down and buy a scale.
    As far as having an opioid tolerance, for me it was percocet 10/650, then a lower dose 10/325 for a very long time....about 7 years, 10-15 a day. Not something I'm proud to admit, but a I mentioned I have been off them for 6 months.
    When you use a teaspoon are yours heaping or level?
    Thanks T!
     
  7. seaturtle

    seaturtle Titanium Member

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    Always use a level spoonful, heaping spoonfuls are much more inexact.

    Congrats on quitting percocet, that's a difficult habit to break. It sounds like your tolerance was quite high, and in my experience opioid tolerance is somewhat permanent. It does go down when you don't use, but it seems to quickly end up at the level before you quit.

    So yeah, I think you probably need to take more Kratom to feel it considering your tolerance, 8-10 grams would be a good place to start, which is probably at least a few spoonfuls if not more depending on your spoon (you really need to measure it in grams somehow). And remember not to go over 15 grams at a time.

    You should be cautious with Kratom though, it has strong opioid effects when you get the dose right, and there's a good chance you'll quickly become physically and mentally addicted. The addiction is usually not as bad as real opiates, but the withdrawal is somewhat similar and long lasting.
     
  8. baselined

    baselined Titanium Member

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    Hey twixler,

    Well for starters, the 10/650 to 10/325 dose of percocet is not really a lower dose, at least not of the active chemical. Essentially all you did was take less acetaminophen (tylenol), but that's beside the point ;)

    For me I use a half teaspoon, level, and that measures a gram nearly exactly. I will also add that this isn't any old spoon I have in my drawer, it is an actual measuring spoon, and can keep my measurements consistent. I will lastly add that I DO measure my doses on a digital scale if I get from a different supplier or new strain, but what I usually buy a 1/2 teaspoon is one gram.

    Are you saying that you were taking 10-15 pills a day? If so that's 100-150 mgs of oxycodone a day for the better part of a decade. Were you even feeling it anymore? Being off of them for 6 months will definitely aid in your tolerance, but you will likely have some degree of tolerance for the rest of your life.

    So once you know how much kratom you are actually taking, can we only give you a definitive answer as to what your problem might be. I assume that you are taking it on a completely empty stomach, and then not eating for at least 45 minutes after dosing? If so then, as has been said, you are either taking too little or buying bunk kratom. Ianzombie's "Kratom Buying Guide" is a great place to start. I believe that was what Potter meant by saying "read the guides". There are great stickies to read at the top of the kratom subforum, give them a read if you haven't.

    Like seaturtle said, 5 grams is a good starting dose. If you don't feel anything from that, then it is pretty safe to assume you have crap kratom. I know you still have a tolerance to opiates, but with your 6 month break, you should at least be off baseline at 5 grams. Also, taking too much kratom tends to make one feel sick/takes away from the pleasurable effects of the drug. Keeping it to 5 grams or less should give you that energy and motivation you are looking for.

    Keep in mind, you have had a past opiate problem, and its very easy to get carried away with kratom given its accessibility.

    Hopefully that covers everything. Keep us updated!
     
  9. DepoV

    DepoV Silver Member

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    Mix it with boiled/hot water, stir, let it sit for 10 minutes and then either take it as a shot or sip on it slowly, as you'd like.

    If you have a 30 gram bag, start with a 1/6th of it, you could always take one part more 30 minutes later. Don't expect an opiate high, more just an overall wellbeing and a little lift in the mood.

    I second that about not everyone likes every drug, me for example have never gotten anything out from weed, it just doesn't do a thing to me.

    If you're only out to get more energy and motivation, you could always try 5-htp which are sold almost everywhere and can work wonders for some. I can attest to that myself. They're also much cheaper than kratom and don't bring on the same sort of somewhat bothersome side effects.
     
  10. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Unless he is going to consume the powder aswel then that route is pretty wasteful.
    Honestly, drinking tea made by steeping compared with a proper kratom tea made by boiling the powder in water is like comparing beer and vodka.

    If he is not feeling anything from ingesting the powder he is unlikely to feel anything by what is one of the worst ways to use kratom (after smoking :) )
     
  11. DepoV

    DepoV Silver Member

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    I hope your ok with me not experiencing this way of making and consuming kratom as "wasteful". What was wasteful to me was capsules, no effects what so ever. But to some the capsules are working just fine. Making a cup of tea this way was the way I "discovered" what kratom can do for you, so no need to tell me I'm doing it wrong. Boiling it for 15 minutes didn't make one bit of a difference, to me that is, and in that regards I view it as "wasteful" with my time.

    It must be as with everything else, different ways work different for different people, that's why we are here to share, no?
     
  12. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Sure, if that works for you fine.
    But most people, in fact nearly everyone i have known in the decade i have been using kratom find that boiling kratom vs steeping kratom will produce a far stronger tea.

    And as the op is already not feeling anything from the kratom he is taking i think that he should use a better method should he decide to go down the tea route.

    You can make your tea anyway you like.
    No point in wasting 20 minutes of your time if you dont have it to spare. :)
     
  13. DepoV

    DepoV Silver Member

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    I realize now, ianzombie, you're referring to my previous thread where I'm not ingesting the bulk of the powder that settles on the bottom of the cup.

    I didn't mentioned anything of that it my above post to OP, -that- was just a tip to make tea out of it. My own choice of leaving the soaked powder is just my preference right now, as I really want to get out of this addiction for all sorts of reasons and wouldn't recommend it to anyone asking for advice how to get the most out of kratom.