Willyzh
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I was wondering about this idea a few weeks ago, albeit clumsily. Looks like the basic theory has been hammered out and here are the many details:
(Due Respect and much Gratitude to 69Ron for all his prodigious intuition and inspiration and helping to pave the way to a new understanding of how psychedelics interact with the brain and the workings of the psychoparmacological mechanisms of the brain and body)
:thumbsup:
L-tryptophan to tryptamine to DMT in vivo:
More on this idea as my understanding develops further.
(Due Respect and much Gratitude to 69Ron for all his prodigious intuition and inspiration and helping to pave the way to a new understanding of how psychedelics interact with the brain and the workings of the psychoparmacological mechanisms of the brain and body)
:thumbsup:
L-tryptophan to tryptamine to DMT in vivo:
I do get mild CEVs from tryptophan if I take it with betaine anhydrous. For me about 500 mg of L-tryptophan and 1000 mg of betaine, taken together at the same time orally (not in a pill, just swallowed as is), produces mild psychedelic effect about 30 minutes later. I am 100% sure some tryptamine if forming in vivo, and some of it is being dimethylated into N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) in vivo. I believe this is the cause of the CEVs...
Apparently what time of day you take L-tryptophan can affect what your body metabolizes it into. I never get sleepy from normal doses taken during the day, but instead get a pleasant mood lift and an overall comfortable feeling in my body and mind. I believe this is because more tryptamine and 5-hyroxytryptamine is forming from it during the day, while more melatonin is forming from it at night.
Is there a way to force tryptamine to form from L-tryptophan? Is there some other supplement you can take to force it to form? It is proven to form in the body from oral L-tryptophan. This is now for a fact. DMT is also know proven to form in the body from tryptamine. This was previously just a theory but is now a fact. It occurs in very small amounts.
If one could cause more tryptamine to form from oral L-tryptophan and take a lot of betaine with it, that should cause more DMT to form.....
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I read that L-tryptophan supplementation will lead to higher tryptamine levels in the body only if both MAO-A and MAO-B are inhibited. If either one is not inhibited, tryptamine is destroyed nearly as soon as it forms. Its rapidly destroyed by both MAO-A and MAO-B.
Harmaline is the most potent MAO-A inhibitor you can get legally. Hordenine is the best legal MAO-B inhibitor you can get. Harmaline is great for activating DMT orally, and it will keep any DMT that forms in vivo from being destroyed by MAO-A. Harmaline also enhances the effects of DMT. Hordenine will probably also enhance the effects of the DMT.
So you should try taking 100 mg of hordenine to inhibit MAO-B and 100 mg of harmaline to inhibit MAO-A, and then a large dose of L-tryptophan and betaine anhydrous (TMG). I think by using both harmaline and hordenine together, your chances of getting L-tryptophan to form tryptamine in vivo will be much greater. The betaine will help the tryptamine that forms in vivo turn into DMT in vivo.
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Smoking in general doesn’t appeal to me much. I might try it out of curiosity at some point though.
I’m more interested in activation by the oral route. I checked into this a little more and like was said above, with MAO-A and MAO-B both inhibited, L-tryptophan produces a lot of tryptamine. Apparently tryptamine is forming all the time from L-tryptophan, but its getting destroyed by MAO-A and MAO-B all the time. Tryptamine has got an extremely short half life because of this, so it doesn’t normally build up to levels high enough to elicit effects. It’s the same for DMT, when it forms it’s rapidly destroyed by MAO-A.
One method for ensuring that L-tryptophan forms more tryptamine is to supplement with both 5-HTP and L-tryptophan. This allows the body to make serotonin from the 5-HTP, leaving an abundance of L-tryptophan left available to form tryptamine. The more 5-HTP you have, the less your body uses L-tryptophan to make it. Without supplementing with 5-HTP, your body is forced to use L-trytophan to make 5-HTP.
So here are some key methods to force DMT to form from L-tryptophan in vivo:
* Take the MAO-A inhibitor harmaline to keep tryptamine and DMT from being destroyed.
* Take the MAO-B inhibitor hordenine to keep tryptamine from being destroyed.
* Take 5-HTP to prevent L-tryptophan from forming 5-HTP, serotonin, and melatonin.
* Take L-tryptophan to form tryptamine.
* Take trimethylglycine to form DMT from the tryptamine.
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Last night I tried using 50 mg of harmaline, 100 mg of hordenine, 1000 mg of TMG, and 100 mg of L-tryptophan. This is a low dose of each. I wanted to start low because I didn't know if hordenine and harmaline were going to mix well together.
The effects were felt in about 20 minutes, surprisingly. It was very pleasant. The hordenine and harmaline go very well together. Both could easily be felt as well as the L-tryptophan, which was much stronger with this combination. Normally 100 mg of L-tryptophan does very little in me. There was very clearly potentiation of some of L-tryptophan’s effects. There were very obvious but mild closed eye visuals, as well as some open eye visuals, some euphoria and a little drowsiness.
Unfortunately I did this test about 30 minutes before bedtime, which is really the wrong time to be testing this. I fell asleep after about 45 minutes into it. I had a ton of vivid dreams.
This combination was extremely pleasant, definitely something I’ll be trying again. I think next time I’ll up the dose of harmaline to 75 mg and hordenine to 150 mg, and keep the tryptophan and TMG doses about the same.
This test pretty much proved to me that mixing L-tryptophan with MAO-A and MAO-B inhibitors, and TMG, causes the body to make much more dimethyltryptamine in vivo. How much was made is hard to say exactly. It was enough for some mild closed eye visuals and mild psychedelic effects from a mere 100 mg of L-tryptophan. 50 mg of harmaline does nothing to me on it’s own. 100 mg of hordenine, I’m not sure. That was my first hordenine test. I’ll be testing hordenine more today.
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You should be able to easily get a DMT trip from L-tryptophan and a few easy to get supplements.
According to the attached document, "Tryptamine may play a part in eliciting the behavioural syndrome since treatment with an MAO inhibitor and L-tryptophan increases brain levels of tryptamine more than 5-HT (Marsden & Curzon, 1978). Furthermore, inhibitors of the enzyme aromatic L-amino acid decarboxylase, that have little effect on brain 5-HT, decrease brain tryptamine and prevent the behavioural syndrome (Marsden & Curzon, 1979)."
They are stating that aromatic L-amino acid decarboxylase inhibitors reduce this “behavioural syndrome”. Aromatic L-amino acid decarboxylase converts L-tryptophan into tryptamine. With this inhibited tryptamine doesn’t form so psychedelic effects are not seen. Tryptamine is an MAO-A and MAO-B substrate. Both MAO enzymes convert it to an aldehyde. With aldehyde dehydrogenase inhibited, tryptamine will convert to an aldehyde, and then condense with dimethylamine (and possibly pyrrolidine and piperidine) to form DMT in vitro. This can account for much of the psychedelic effects of this “behavioural syndrome”.
So you should be able to get decent DMT-like effects from L-tryptophan if you take it with an MAO-A inhibitor, an aldehyde dehydrogenase inhibitor, and a ton of choline (to produce dimethyulamine in vivo).
This works in a way similar to oilahuasca. You preload with choline to produce dimethylamine in the intestines. Then you take an MAO-A inhibitor like harmaline, but not an MAO-B inhibitor. You also take a potent aldehyde dehydrogenase inhibitor like kudzu or Elemi X Booster 6B. Then you take L-tryptophan and L-phenhylalanine (to inhibit L-tryptophan from forming 5-HTP) to force the body to convert L-tryptophan into tryptamine instead of 5-HTP. Then when MAO-B attacks tryptamine, it converts to an aldehyde. With aldehyde dehydrogenase inhibited and plenty of dimethylamine present, some of the aldehyde then condenses with dimethylamine to form DMT. It could possibly condense with piperidine or pyrrolidine which is not good , so make sure you take a lot of choline to produce a ton of dimethylamine so that DMT production is favored. The piperidine form lasts way too long. Now with MAO-A inhibited, the DMT created in vivo will not break down. But if MAO-A isn’t inhibited DMT will break down and be reincarnated. However, this is probably going to weaken the effects a lot because it’s like that only a small percentage is reincarnated each time it’s broken down by MAO-A, even with aldehyde dehydrogenase inhibited.
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Pomegranate extract should function better as an ALDH inhibitor, because it also inhibits xanthine oxidase.
So Choline + Harmaline + Pomegranate Extract + Phenylalanine + Tryptophan = DMT?
BEHOLD, THE DOOR TO THE HEAVENS HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ALL MANKIND.
If this works.
Any possible risks? I don't see any, but I never want to risk death...
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Yes, pomegranate extract is a good choice. I forgot about that. Pomegranate extract potently inhibits aldehyde dehydrogenase, xanthine oxidase, and aldose reductase, so it's perfect. Since this is not allylbenzene based, it doesn't matter that it also potently inhibits CYP2C9.
Choline + harmaline + pomegranate extract + L-phenylalanine + L-tryptophan = DMT.
There is nothing risky about this that I can see that's obvious. I have tried this, but using kudzu instead of pomegranate, and I didn't get any side effects. It works. You need to play around with the doses of each to get it just right though. I got weak effects, but it was real, not at all placebo.
Make sure you don't take L-lysine the day you do this or you'll be tripping for over 24 hours from the piperidine version of DMT if it gets created in vivo. That happened to me once.
I can get light effects at doses of 250 mg L-phenylalanine + 250 mg L-tryptophan. So that’s a good starting point. The harmaline dose is 75-100 mg. The kudzu dose is 200-400 mg. The choline bitartrate dose is 1000-3000 mg.
Take the choline 1 hour before the amino acids. If using Elemi X Booster 6B as the aldehyde dehydrogenase inhibitor (it also inhibits xanthine oxidase) use 15-20 drops with the amino acids (it works fast). If using 40% kudzu extract instead, take 200-400 mg with the L-lysine 1 hour before the amino acids. Kudzu takes longer to work than Elemi X Booster. Take the harmaline with the amino acids. If using pomegranate extract as the aldehyde dehydrogenase inhibitor, I’m not sure when the best time to take it is. Perhaps 1 hour before, along with the choline?
The only concern I have is if the piperidine form of DMT is created you’ll be tripping for more than 24 hours. If you take a large dose of L-tryptophan, say 2000 mg or more and the piperidine form of DMT is created, you might be in for one hell of a trip and be stuck tripping for maybe a few days if it works well in your body.
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If you look on the internet on other forums you'll see some others are getting similar effects from just L-tryptophan taken in very large doses. If a large dose of just L-tryptophan alone can't cause a mild trippy effect, then this is probably not going to work for you. I can get very mild trippy effects from just L-tryptophan at doses of about 500 mg. Some people need much more. I happen to be very sensitive to psychedelics.
As far as drug use habits go, I think the thing that probably separates me from a lot of other SWIMMERS out there is that I actually do not smoke marijuana, not even a little bit. I'm not just saying that because it's illegal and I don't want to admit guilt. I actually do not smoke marijuana. I also don't smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol. The only drug or herb I use regularly is coffee. Everything else I use sporadically. I tend to skip several days between usage, and sometimes a few weeks.
Urock, it may be that you need more dimethylamine or piperidine in your body to get these working. If your body doesn't have enough dimethylamine and/or piperidine then L-tryptophan, elemicin and the other oils will NOT WORK AT ALL no matter what you do. Having free dimethylamine and/or piperidine in your body is essential to getting all of these to work.
Dimethylamine is critical for this. Once your body makes tryptamine, it must then be attacked by MAO and converted to an aldehyde. The aldehyde must then link up we free dimethylamine. If you body doesn't manufacture enough free dimethylamine, this is simply not going to work no matter what.
I think all the steps are easy for most people up until the final linking with dimethylamine.
MOST FREE DIMETHYLAMINE IN HUMANS IS MADE BY INTESTINAL BACTERIA. Since not everyone has the exact same level of microorganisms in their intestines, not everyone is going to make enough free dimethylamine.
There's another problem. If your body makes enough dimethylamine but something else present in your body, such as an aldehyde, is using up all the free dimethylamine, then your body will not make much DMT no matter what you do.
So you might need to avoid all aldehydes and other compounds that can link up with dimethylamine.
More on this idea as my understanding develops further.
(You have to take everything super slow and even then always assume theirs a fair chance it wont work even if you have absolutely every single inhibitor of the right kind listed. you probably have to quit smoking and drinking coffee or find a cheap readily available CYP1A2 inhibitor. your diet is probably the number 1 factor to the majority of SWIMMERS not able to get things on this site to work, go back and look up the long ass list of everyday foods that inhibit CYP2C9, and urock as for L-tryptophan to trypyamine to dmt, its entirely possible your endogenous tryptamine levels are high enough in combination with large dietary choline intake its very possible you could already have this combo working every single day of the year and many people might have it working all the time not realizing it was a part of their diet and you would likely never notice because if you don't think of having taken something to cause an effect you assume its placebo that your experiencing or you think your crazy and don't try to change it or its so light you never notice it possibly due to high tolerance to possibly tryptamines or hallucinogens in general.)
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