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LD50 for Clonazepam

Discussion in 'Pharmacology' started by kemistudent, May 6, 2006.

  1. kemistudent

    kemistudent Newbie

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    According to a few wib sites I have looked at, the LD50 for humans would be incredibly high, as for rats it looks pretty high.

    Here is some data from one thread:

    First Post

    Something else interesting regarding the safety of benzos is that Klonopin's LD50 for rats and mice is 4,000mg/kg, and in rabbits it's 2,000mg/kg. Even though animal LD50's aren't necessarily a great indicator of what may be a fatal dose for a human, if we use the rabbit LD50 as an example, it would take around 145,000mg of Klonopin to kill a 160-pound person; using the rat/mouse LD50, it would be 290,000mg!! So, in essence, it's pretty much impossible to OD on the stuff for two reasons:
    1 -- Where the heck would you get that much Klonopin?? And if you *were* somehow able to procure it, surely thoughts of suicide would quickly be replaced with thoughts of selling the darned things and becoming filthy rich, lol!
    2 -- If the LD50's listed above are similar to the LD50 in humans, one would need to ingest anywhere from 72,500-145,000 2mg pills.
    As a side note, just a thought I'm having... First of all, each pill weighs more than the amount of clonazepam in it due to all the fillers. I'd be interested to find out exactly how much one 2mg pill weighs, but for argument's sake, let's just say that a 2mg Klonopin weighs about half as much as a regular paperclip, 250mg. Then 72,500 pills would weigh 18,125 grams. Now, if memory serves me correctly, it takes about 14 liters (14,000g) of water to kill a person of average weight. That would make the pills themselves less toxic than water!
    I must reiterate though, the LD50's listed above are just for the sake of example; the human LD50 for clonazepam is not known (for obvious reasons).

    Second Post

    I once took 100mg klonopin with a pint of vodka and some beers, --I slept for a couple of days, but that was about it. Sounds pretty safe to me. (relatively of course, NOT recommended.)
    -thomas-

    Third Post

    My pdoc told me that one of his other patients took over 100 mg of Xanax in a suicide attempt. Apparently, she was fine (although sleepy). He did add that, thankfully she didn't add alcohol. My impression is that it's almost impossible to OD on benzos unless other CNS depressants are involved.

    Fourth Post

    I'm always pretty surprised when I read about people who suffer no adverse effects after mixing benzos with alcohol. I had always thought that that combination of CNS depressants would almost surely be fatal. What's the word on this? (maybe I'm thinking of the old barbiturate drugs and alcohol)

    Fifth Post

    > I'm always pretty surprised when I read about people who >suffer no adverse effects after mixing benzos with alcohol. I had >always thought that that combination of CNS depressants >would almost surely be fatal. What's the word on this? (maybe >I'm thinking of the old barbiturate drugs and alcohol)

    This happens to be one of those cases where individual variability in genetic factors is the major determinant of the outcome. There is no way to predict what will be a lethal dose, a priori. Alcohol and benzos combined can kill. What dose will kill a particular individual can only be determined by experiment, which will unfortunately, render that knowledge moot.
    BTW, what proves lethal is the suppression of respiration. It's not toxicity that kills. It's the lack of oxygen.


    So has anyone ever taken a bunch of benzo's, and if so, what benzo and about how much? EtOH involved? Does EtOH make that much of a difference when determining the LD50 of Klonopin?



     
  2. jesusfreak666er

    jesusfreak666er Newbie

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    Why bother wondering the ld50 of clonazapam, people very rarely die of a kpin od but more likely mixing benzos and alc.
     
  3. kebertxela

    kebertxela Silver Member

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    It is quite easy to OD when combining benzo's and opiates. In ten years the rate of death when combining them has increased SEVENFOLD!
     
  4. Dog Rockets

    Dog Rockets Silver Member

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    A few years out, I'm actually taking prescribed Klonopin (1MG) and Zoloft (200MG) to fend off the depression and OCD that helped lead up to my attempt. I have no issues drinking a fair amount of alcohol despite being on two medications that interact strongly with it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2011
  5. Petri6

    Petri6 Newbie

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    Well, SWIM has seen an alcoholic polydrug user take his week's worth of clonazepam (22 mg) at once (reporting no anxiety relief) and then proceeding to drink at least 0.7 liters of 32 % alcohol during the evening without even passing out. Wouldn't recommend it though.

    SWIM thinks that in a benzodiazepine+alcohol overdose the amount of alcohol consumed is the key factor and high doses of alcohol would be needed to push someone over the edge. He could be entirely wrong though.
     
  6. Dog Rockets

    Dog Rockets Silver Member

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    Good god, how is that even possible? A bottle of hard liquor ON TOP OF 22 MG of Klonopin? Was SWIY hopped up on meth or something at the time???

    I agree, it is whatever is consumed along with the the benzo that does the real damage. The benzo gets the user good and comatose, giving the other substances a chance to wreak havoc completely unhindered.
     
  7. Herbal Healer 019

    Herbal Healer 019 Silver Member

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    I would agree with everything you said in your post, OP, in that it is impossible to overdose on clonazepam (klonopin), a benzodiazapine, or any benzodiazapine for that matter due to the very large doses required.

    Having said that, SWIM has mixed 150mg diazepam, 35mg bromazepam, 2mg alprazolam, 4 grams of phenibut, and (unknown amount) alcohol and just nodded the fuck off (felt like taking a bunch of opiates) for around 8 hours and was high for probably 16 hours more...in retrospect this was extremely stupid, and while it wasn't a suicide attempt, it speaks volumes about the mindset SWIM was in at the time (SWIM is a self-diagnosed manic depressive).

    Anyways SWIM thinks the real danger with benzodiazapines, especially in combination with alcohol & other central nervous system depressants, is the propensity to black out and behave violently/foolishly/etc... and harm or potentially kill someone or yourself whilst in the midst of said blackout.

    Benzos are bad mmmkay...
     
  8. Petri6

    Petri6 Newbie

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    Well, this particular alcoholic also enjoys amphetamine (usually speed around here is amphetamine, rarely methamphetamine, cut to shit whit God knows what), but none were consumed at that time.

    From what SWIM has gathered from the posts in this forum, long time medical use causes tolerance to rise high but taking ridiculous amounts for "recreational use" (well, some people call blacking out and acting like a retard recreational, SWIM doesn't) raises it even higher and much faster.
     
  9. hillbilly345

    hillbilly345 Silver Member

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    Just one question?

    Why do they put "ACCIDENTAL" on your "DEATH CERTIFICATE" ?

    DID YOU PLAN ON DYING!

    COMBINING CNS DEPRESSANTS CAN "SIGNIFICANTLY" LEAD TO AN "ACCIDENTAL" DEATH!
     
  10. nanodesu

    nanodesu Newbie

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    A friend took 80mg of alprazolam and didn't had any problems. Another friend took 120mg of clonazepam and he too didn't had any problems. A distant relative took 50mg of clonazepam with 2dl of vodka and died within 8 hours, so don't mix depressants especially if they bind to other sites and have a synrgistic effect.
     
  11. Dog Rockets

    Dog Rockets Silver Member

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    Just because your stoopid doesn't mean you're suicidal. For some people the combination of cns depressants is just the thing to kill their mental anguish, for a time at least.

    And unless there is compelling evidence that the overdose was intentional, suicide is a hell of thing to put on someone's death certificate. The social stigma is extreme and I don't blame anyone for "fudging" it when it comes to this.
     
  12. TheTwighlight

    TheTwighlight Newbie

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    Klonopin is quite the drug when you have a tolerance. I used to be scripted 16mg/day. I would take 60mg at a time with my friends on the weekend to try to catch a buzz while drinking. Couldn't do it. Never could.

    I have taken up to ~300mg clonazepam at once. It only made me black out. For the most part I was still conscious. Probably at the same intoxication level as someone who had taken 2 or 3 bars for the first time. Klonopin is the only benzo I know of that builds that sort of tolerance, where it just doesn't do anything at all. Although, I will say, that Restoril (temazepam) is very close. Many people say it's the most euphoric benzo, but I say it's not shit. Not to mention it caused the worst blackouts I've ever had in my life (and that is SERIOUSLY saying something). Very fine line between relaxation & the detox tank in jail.

    Anyhow, I don't take benzos anymore. I had a ~9 years love affair with them that nearly killed me in withdrawal several times. I do NOT condone any of the behavior described above.
     
  13. Cid Lysergic

    Cid Lysergic Silver Member

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    Sorry for the old thread bump, to add a few details to this article.

    In response to the first post, the 2mg's, alone with the .5mg's dissolve sublingualy (under the tongue) So even less water may be needed making a high dose safer.

    As a reply to another above post, the blacking out & making $ instead, totally agreed. Once 18mg Lorazepam was taken under the tongue. Instant black out. All I remember is laying on my couch with a amazing euphoria (I might have even taken some MDMA without remembering) & not a care in the world.

    The second thing that I remember was with 3 friends and was doing Salvia. I have a good amount of experience when it comes to that plant (every few months for the past 5 years). I know the proper method involving what temperature Salvinorin A must reach & with Salvia for me, I go for broke when it comes to the inhale.

    Nothing hapenned. I got extremely mad, threw my glass mini-bong which resulted in the brand new bowl piece being busted. After that, I came too in my living room. $1500 in cash, house cleaned, resume done, along with no hangover. Total experience lasted 3 days.

    First being that it is believed that Depressant like drugs (including Opiods/Opiates, and Anti-cholinergics such as Diphenhydramine or a TCA like Amitryptaline & of course Ethanol GHB) are amplified exponentially rather than additively. 5^2 which = 25 compared to 5+5=10. So therefore a 2.5x more of an effect will occur.

    No exact source on that readily available besides me learning it in a Pharmacology of Addictions course in college which I finished with a 98% with 100% on every essay (which I had written one of those specifically about Clonazepam. Take it for truth or not, does not matter to me as I'm on 4mg Clonazepam, 20mg Propranolol, 10mg Amitryptaline, Weed, small amount of 6% alcohol.

    Figured I'd add my two cents as I have Lorazepam & Zopiclone in my display picture, along with an interesting story. I just realized the sections are screwed up, but on a cell phone, hard to change. Good thing for auto correct considering I dunno if I'll remember writing this. Hell, I even found this site blacked out on Zopiclone, lol.

    Anyways, done rambling. Sorry for the poor formatting & messed up trains of thought. Tried my best with what my brain was capable of doing. Peace.