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lethal gbl dose?

Discussion in 'GHB' started by psilocybin, Feb 19, 2007.

  1. psilocybin

    psilocybin Newbie

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    in swims research into GBL he has been unable to find out this information. SWIM keeps hearing of accidental deaths, and from his experiance with gettin doses wrong this seems plausable. However the limited information he has found has shown a very high dose to be necessary. SWIM likes to be educated as much as possible on substances he uses and is curious to find out
     
  2. Psych0naut

    Psych0naut Platinum Member

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    According to Erowid 3-4 times the normal dose can be lethal, though most deaths due to GBL are probaply because of people suffocating in their own vomit. SWIM thinks to die from GBL itself one has to take around 5-6 times the normal dose or even higher though he doesn't have any clear info.
     
  3. ~lostgurl~

    ~lostgurl~ Platinum Member & Advisor

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    GHB, GBL and 14B are all non toxic as they are rapidly broken down in the body into harmless carbon dioxide and water.

    Do a google search "the demonization of GHB" this document is very accurate with its information from what swim can tell and for GHB it says 40 times the amount needed to induce sleep would be needed to be toxic. If this were true than the toxic dose of GBL would be about 100 mils which is a hell of a lot.

    Dr Dean Wards research shows that none of the autopsy reports of suspected GHB overdoses can conclude that GHB alone caused the deaths. There have always been other substances present or a pre existing condition.

    "GHB does not suppress the reticular activating center of the brain which controls respiration (unlike drugs like alcohol and Rohypnol). In fact, although GHB slows the respiratory rate, it deepens the respirations, so there is little change in blood oxygen content."

    There is also a drug that can be used to rapidly wake a person up from a sleep induced dose of GHB. It is called Physostigmine, it is a drug used to treat myesthenia gravis.
     
  4. MrG

    MrG Silver Member

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    GBL and GHB related deaths (when actually proved to be true) are usually when the user has combined with another CNS such as alcohol or benzo's.
     
  5. psilocybin

    psilocybin Newbie

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    hmm yea, swim shouldn't believe what he reads! having seen people 'out' on gbl it does seem like it could kill more easily than that, but from research i guess you are right.. swim often drinks with gbl but it doesn't seem to do any harm, altho you do seem to act far more drunk and memory loss is extreme..
     
  6. garbled

    garbled

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    That is interesting, first I have heard of Physostigmine.

    I am aware of a street level wake-up procedure for those who ingest excessive GHB: the smoke from crystal methamphetamine. For some reason, the stimulant reaction of smoking ice represses the coma-like urge to pass out from excessive GHB intake. Snorting, banging, swallowing the methamphetamine did not produce the same result as the smoke did, since those results are not instantaneous. Non-responsive individuals were force-fed methamphetamine smoke using CPR-like procedures, and resulted in about 85% success rate to push back the loss of consciousness associated with excessive GHB intake.

    All in the name of science...
     
  7. Lehendakari

    Lehendakari Gold Member

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    SWIM himself overdosed once with 6-7 gr of GHB and let me tell you that alcohol poisoning never felt so horrible. The time he wasn't puking he was trying not to pass out and when he stopped puking he had cramps and small seizures and couldn't sleep at all that night. He felt very bad next day also.

    Don't know if there is a lethal dose, but I don't want to imagine what a bigger dose can do to you.
     
  8. MrG

    MrG Silver Member

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    Strange that SWIY would have had such a bad reaction to 6-7g of GHB considering that clinical Xyrem doses range from 3-9g with no ill-effects.

    Maybe SWIY's batch of GHB wasn't pH balanced properly.

    http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26372

    This report contains all you need to know about both GHB and GBL toxicity.
     
  9. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2

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    One way people have died as a result of GBH/L has been to take a nice, warm bath while taking too much. It is an anesthetic, ya know? Out you go - and under the water. Glub! Glub! Glub!
     
  10. Lehendakari

    Lehendakari Gold Member

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    Let someone with no tolerance try 7 gr on empty stomach and tell me what happens.

    SWIM's GHB ph was perfect. He used the same GHB batch on multiple ocassions at lower doses and never had problem.

    Don't know if SWIY is experienced but 6 gr is a pretty high dose. I would not recommend anyone take more than 2.5 their first time. Would you give anyone 7 gr of GHB and say: "don't worry is within the clinical dosage range."??

    I would not.
     
  11. MrG

    MrG Silver Member

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    I would never consider giving GHB to anyone as that would be illegal.

    As for the dosage, 6-7g is certainly a very high dose and wouldn't be recommended at all for rec use, but if you read the Xyrem cataplexy reports you will see that the clinical dose often needs to be high enough to ensure the patient is "knocked out" and asleep rather than risk it being too low and having them "spaced out" and mobile.

    SWIM never takes above 2g in a single shot but instead takes a number of smaller shots (1.2-1.7g) through the evening in order to be able to enjoy the buzz.

    I wasn't commenting on your dose as being an acceptable rec amount, I merely commented on your stated dose as being within clinical use measurements.
     
  12. TazDevil

    TazDevil Silver Member

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    I realize this this is a very old thread, but had to say this:

    Physostigmine would likely not be that great of an antidote for GHB overdose. It would actually be a very bad idea, maybe only as a last-ditch effort if breathing could not be maintained and if intubation were not possible. Physostigmine is a potent convulsant. Stimulation of the GHB receptor is also a potent convulsant. Add both and you might wind up in status epilepticus (especially if there was coingestion of amphetamines or other CNS stimulants). Status is much harder to treat and more lethal than if you had just intubated and supplemented O2.

    So how would you then treat status epilepticus? Your best options are benzodiazepines or even propofol if the benzos are unsuccessful. Both of those are going to further worsen any leftover CNS depression. All of the above increase the risk of vomiting and aspiration. And it would be difficult and dangerous to intubate the patient since neuromuscular blockers may not work because the physostigmine reverses neuromuscular blockade. I'd also hate to see what condition the heart would be in at this point.

    I will mention that I personally agree that death from GHB overdose probably has more to do with aspirating while unconscious, drowning, etc. Much like many barbiturate overdoses. I just wanted to add that there are no known specific antidotes and why the physostigmine may not be the safest bet. I agree that GHB's dangerousness is seriously overplayed by media sensationalism, but it's certainly not that hard to die from.
     
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