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Oral use - Llipta or sodium bicarbonate

Discussion in 'Coca' started by BumpBump, Nov 10, 2008.

  1. BumpBump

    BumpBump Silver Member

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    Has anyone tried both? Is it worth ordering some llipta in?
     
  2. Benga

    Benga Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Re: llipta or bicarb

    yes.
    llipta is inconvienent to use, especially the unflavoured coal like lipta stones.
    stains the mouth black.
    swim has gone from limestone paste (fine, but can easily burn the mouth, and possible carcinogen), to sodium bicarbonate, experimented with real peruvian llipta, and it's been sodium bicarbonate ever since. the taste is better, it's safe, easy to use, cheap and effective.
     
  3. BumpBump

    BumpBump Silver Member

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    swim has been using bicarb also. Bicarb don't taste great! Would be interesting to come up with a flavoured llipta type substitue.
    Swim will try llipta, but will look into a flavour enhancing basifying substitue
     
  4. Benga

    Benga Platinum Member & Advisor

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    after some years, Papageno has actually began to enjoy the taste of coca and bicarb...
    might be a pavlovian thing, as most people seem to hate it. It's salty.
    an option is simply to stick some chewing gum or other non thickly melting lolly in one's mouth with the coca quid. works. just think of what would go well with a salty taste.
    i doubt that dulce de leche llipta will be that palatable to non south american taste buds anyway...
     
  5. Potter

    Potter Platinum Member & Advisor

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    If the flavour of bicarb is really too much, you would be surprised how potent toothpaste with bicarb is. The first few times nobody tried coca, it was with toothpaste and not only does it release the alkaloids, but the paste makes for a convenient adhesive for ground up leaf matter, kind of.

    Going to have to second the warning against lime paste. No matter how "edible" it says it is on the container, it takes a skilled hand to apply it to your quid. Little too much or put in the wrong place and your looking at pretty severe chemical burns.
     
  6. Flying Mind

    Flying Mind Titanium Member

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    Zumozumo, SWIM's pet bird, is very intrigued by the use of toothpaste. Bicarb alone works great but Zumozumo's mouth gets burned too much, all the time. The burnt feeling takes at least a day to subside. Zumozumo will try this :thumbsup:
     
  7. Benga

    Benga Platinum Member & Advisor

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    must say the critter's never had mouth burns from sodium bicarb. Sores from having something in one's mouth, yes, but no mouth burns.
    maybe zumozumo has a very sensitive mucosa, is using too much bicarb., or swallowing his saliva instead of keeping it in the mouth (which does dilute things)
    critter tears up a teabag ( rip off the string part), sprinkles half a teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate, shakes it around to spread the bicarb in the leaf powder, gives the top part a lick then rolls the teabag on itself like a cigarette (saliva closes it), and pops it in the mouth.

    b
     
  8. Flying Mind

    Flying Mind Titanium Member

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    Zumozumo is serious. The gum tissue is peeling as well. Not only that but Zumozumo dosen't really feel that pleasant numbing sensation any more. Much more a burning sensation. Zumozumo did just that. Half teaspoon per bag.

    ubeRAGEoUS added 9 Minutes and 36 Seconds later...

    However Zumozumo tried something new this morning. He first dunked the bag in water (with a ph of 7.5, not sure that matters) then placed it in his mouth. Zumozumo found the burning a lot less intense, still not that much numbness anymore (not sure why).

    Anyway,
    Zumozumo is pleased to say he has many more experiments to conduct and wishes to present his findings to this forum when finished.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2009
  9. Potter

    Potter Platinum Member & Advisor

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    OK, do not put that stuff in your mouth again, that is not supposed to happen. Are you absolutely sure that you aren't talking about edible lime (Calcium carbonate CaCO3)???

    Baking soda, xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx Correction:NaHCO3 Sodium bicarbonate? That is causing your mouth to peel? You aught go talk to your doctor, tell them you were using to brush your teeth. What brand? I can't help but wonder if there might be some contamination involved, bring it to the dr's. Unless your using a more then a teaspoon or possibly more?
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2009
  10. Flying Mind

    Flying Mind Titanium Member

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    No sir. Zumozumo even used less this time, 1/4. VERY little numbing, more so a annoying burn feeling (maybe this is because of damage already done.

    It's 100% bicarb. However it does sit in a spice cabinet and has a faint scent of spice? Exp date is 2011. It sits next to a salt box?


    Zumozumo is confused. The first 3-4 times it felt great, very great and numb. Zumozumo was slept only 3.5 hrs in a 48 period and had no tiredness at all (using only 4 bags during time period)...Now its just burning.

    ubeRAGEoUS added 37 Minutes and 33 Seconds later...

    The only other thing Zumozumo forgot to mention is that during one or two of the first times he literally chewed the bags. He would let them sit in his mouth for 5-10min then start chomping. Soon the bag itself dissolved completely and the mixture covered Zumozumo's entire mouth.

    However
    Zumozumo doesn't recall exceeding the 1/2 tsb. limit.

    Zumozumo wanted to try this, although messy supposedly more effective?

    Anyway
    Zumozumo wishes he could post a pic of his gums. They feel like (and look) like raw steak.

    ubeRAGEoUS added 2 Minutes and 35 Seconds later...

    Perhaps more annoying is Zumozumo's tongue. He says it feels almost like drinking coffee too fast before it cools, not good.


    ubeRAGEoUS added 17 Minutes and 17 Seconds later...

    Best overall way to describe situation...

    Zumozumo feels like the burns somehow prevent the absorption of the alkaloids

    OR

    Zumozumo
    has (very quickly) built up a tolerance and the numbing is less noticeable because the burning sensation overwhelms the numbing effect.


    Any thoughts?

    ubeRAGEoUS added 127 Minutes and 5 Seconds later...

    Zumozumo is going to try one more time with llipta instead. Still curious WHY Zumozumo's mouth got so burnt up. Zumozumo figured it was normal at first then it hurt more and seemed less effective. And WHY the alkaloids don't seem to be absorbed, at least not as efficiently as before.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2009
  11. Benga

    Benga Platinum Member & Advisor

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    llipta is actual more dangerous if used improperly. llipta, or limestone paste and other alkalis can certainly cause the burns your describing. but sodium bicarbonate, in theory, shouldn't.
    let your mouth heal first.
    forget this "baking soda", go to a pharmacy / chemist and ask for some kind of buccal antiseptic, for your having burned your mouth stuffing too hot pizza. and while you're at it, ask for "sodium bicarbonate" to brush your teeth with. once the mouth has healed, try again, maybe with tea.
    if you do try with llipta, add only a little and in the center of the "wad", then close it on itself. if your mouth mucosa is in direct contact with the llipta, it will get burned.

    b
     
  12. Flying Mind

    Flying Mind Titanium Member

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    Zumozumo says thank you. Excellent advise.

    Zumozumo's mouth is feeling somewhat better already. Fortunately the mouth must heal quite quick.




    ubeRAGEoUS added 21 Minutes and 55 Seconds later...

    Zumozumo's still curious if the burns somehow interfere with the absorption of the coca's alkaloids?
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2009
  13. BumpBump

    BumpBump Silver Member

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    swim has burnt his mouth on bicarb a few times... swiy needs a pinch. its not like a heat burn, but you can feel sore patches, and gums
     
  14. hoban7

    hoban7 Silver Member

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    calcium carbonate+ tums antacid tabs....mixed berry flavor and raw leaves taste nice....so i am told by a peruvian friend
     
  15. El Cubano Poco

    El Cubano Poco Newbie

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    Auromere ayurvedica toothpaste is a fantastic, nontoxic, tasty alternative! COntains :Chalk, Glycerine, and many antiseptic herbs which assure the user that any pathogenic organisms will not make it past a mint Auromere and coca buccal mixture ;) It's roughly $5.50 for a concentrated tube, health food stores likely will stock it.
     
  16. hoban7

    hoban7 Silver Member

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    missed the rule about giving websources; appologies. The bolivians have a paste that is similar to lipta called lejla....quinones,cereal,anisete, blah blah....all i have heard is it is softer than lipta, sweeter, no grit, eay to use, no burning, great activation, great taste... since it is not an illegal substance i could find out where to get it ?...i don't know if i just broke another rule or not but i am not incriminating anyone, advertising sites or sources, or solliciting anyone for illicit/illegal substances...give me a shout if swim can help...


    frankly using"swim" does not protect you from any authorities reading the boards....talk about the right (or wrong as the cas may be) andand swiafa (someone who isnt a federal agent) will be tracking your ip addy and looking through your windo in a heartbeat.................nah, that could never happen!..????
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2009
  17. Benga

    Benga Platinum Member & Advisor

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    please do not discuss rules in threads. use of swim or other indirect forms in speech is not there to protect users but the forum itself and its administration and hosting services. we don't want this place to be a collection of confessions of drug use- if you want to rant about this, please do some reading, on the tediously repetitive lengthy discussions on the subject and then eventually post here :

    About the use of SWIM and alternatives

    source discussions, for legal products are restricted to the source forums, to which one has access with gold membership. pm source discussion are not allowed, sorry.

    leija dulce, which is mostly found in bolivian and peruvian cities, is basically your traditional quinoa ash based lye mixed with flavourin, cane sugar, spices, aniseed, anis, and also dulce de leche in Peru.
    it's mostly handmade by the vendors, so the best bet would experimenting with making your own. i very much doubt it's going to be sold by anyone else than coca vendors. Coca leaf, hence coca leaf tea, mate de coca is technically illegal ( in pretty much all countries having ratified the UN 1961 single convention on narcotic drugs, schedule II in the USA for instance) , so source discussion is not even allowed in the source forums.

    try using betel chewing limestone paste, which is already the tarry consistency and incorporate the ingredients. or go the full traditional way and burn up some quinoa.

    frankly, the taste of sodium bicarbonate is fine once one is used to it. it's also used in South American cities. it's safer than ashe based lyes, cheap and easily available.
    one can always pop a caramel, mint, gum,or other sticky lolly / butterscotch for a salt-butter caramel like flavouring as well, saves time and money imo

    b
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
  18. hoban7

    hoban7 Silver Member

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    try using "sweet lejia"
     
  19. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    In reference to 'sweet lejia'...

    Taken from Erowid: http://www.erowid.org/plants/coca/coca_info3.shtml

    "Then, you break off about a pea sized chunk of a thick, black, soft, tarry substance called lejia dulce and put it in your mouth, slowly chewing it into the leaf wad. Lejia is the name for the alkali used to activate the coca by changing the pH of your mouth to be more basic, allowing the coca alkaloids to be absorbed. There are several forms of it available, my favorite being this one, lejia dulce (sweet lejia). This lejia is made from an alkali (ashes obtained by burning the grain quinoa) which is mixed with cane sugar and anise. Another popular form of lejia came as hard O-rings about as round as the old U.S. silver dollars, and is made of some black material with a salty and slightly sour taste. A third kind, which I did not try, came as hard white oval rocks, and appeared to be some kind of lime. There were a few other less common varieties at some vendors."
     
  20. Ancap

    Ancap Silver Member

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    My wife's brother has an invisible friend who has been experimenting with coca for a while now and having tried both, he would definitely recommend the baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) over llipta. Remember, it doesn't take much!

    He actually makes a solution of bicarb and water and moistens the leaves in this solution for at least 30-40 mins prior to stuffing them in his cheek. He usually uses whole leaves, but claims that this method works well with the crushed/powdered leaves from tea bags as well. It cuts down on the bicarb taste a bit and seems to encourage faster results.

    He has nowhere near the experience with coca that some of the other acquaintances and, um, pets... of the DF members posting above, but for what it's worth, sodium bicarbonate is the most convenient, effective, and cheapest way he has found to enjoy the leaves.