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Experiences - Loperamide - The secret Opioid

Discussion in 'Opiates & Opioids' started by MiterSaw, May 14, 2012.

  1. MiterSaw

    MiterSaw Silver Member

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    Hello all,

    Sorry if this is in the wrong section. I apologize in advance.

    First heres some background. I have only done opioids once, that was some oxy given to him as a free sample from the neighborhood business man. It made SWIM sick and gave him a high making everything look yellow, he couldn't bare to stand for 2 hours. I was a heavy drinker until recently when he quit as it wasn't fun for him anymore. SWIM recently has enjoyed nice strong weed sessions but began taking a break 3 weeks ago. He wanted to prove he could live without it.

    I have also had very bad back pain (on and off) everyday but cant get prescribed any because of his past alcohol poisonings and abuse. No non-narcotic pain medicine never works and he gets depressed and cant work without complaining all day, everyday at work but is too scared to tell people his 18 year old back feels like 80 years old. I have too much pride. SWIM cant even do his hobby of woodworking at home sometimes because of the pain. Docters he has seen think he is lying.

    Fast forward to last friday and I got super wasted drinking. While coming down hungover SWIM read about Loperamide and how it was some sort of opiod sold over the counter. He also read how when combined with omeprazole (prilosec OTC) it would feel similar to percs.

    So I took 46 mg of Loperamide and 60 mg of omeprazole. He put it in his mouth ,chewed , swallowed with crystal light to wash it down. Not 30 minutes later he felt tingly, warm, and soooo happy. SWIM began nodding out but fought to stay awake. SWIM began listening to classic rock and metal. He began drooling and didn't stop as he didn't care he was getting spit everywhere. my back pain was gone. He was so happy , he felt like nothing could stop him. SWIM's legs felt weak and everything looked brighter. Loperamide didn't feel nearly are intoxicating as weed to SWIM but it felt like more of a "functioning" high to him. SWIM's fun lasted almost 3 hours. SWIM sorta hoped it would be a stronger high but it was fun anyways, and helped his back.

    After 5 hours SWIM's stomach began to hurt, feels to full even without eating much to him. SWIM also chain smoked a lot during the high. I am addicted to nicotine.

    I would like to know if percs feel stronger than this.
    He sorta hopes you fellows could tell him. He likes getting high but needs to get rid of back pain more.
     
  2. baZING

    baZING Newbie

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    Interesting and well-written report, but I think anything you felt was mostly a placebo effect. Taking that much loperamide is NOT recommended for anyone unless you are coming off a heavy opiate habit already and are using it to ease withdrawal symptoms, and even then, the dose you're talking about is enormous. To taper off a habit, the dosing range is usually more like 8-16mg... not 46mg. Loperamide does not cross the BBB (blood brain barrier), do you think they would sell it OTC if it really had the similar effects to oxycodone, or heroin for that matter?

    From other experience reports of Loperamide, the drowsiness, nodding and any potential nausea is not unexpected but I don't know where the euphoria came from other than placebo TBH. If anything, from all I've read, loperamide is distinctly dysphoric. I'm glad you had a good experience, but I do not recommend you try repeating this, or if you do, I certainly do not recommend you take anywhere near that amount again. Again, the only people I would ever suggest take above-therapeutic doses of loperamide are those already coming off big opiate addictions.

    As for your question "are percs stronger than this," well, they should be... but you didn't have a good reaction to oxycodone, did you? That's all percocet is... oxycodone and APAP (Tylenol), so I don't know if it's for you.

    Also, there's no need for "SWIM." It's a flimsy cover up and is now discouraged by the staff. Please write either in the first person, use "AFOAF" (A friend of a friend), or tell us about your Fluffy Pink Elephant in the tub.
     
  3. Ontario

    Ontario Silver Member

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    I think the happiness you felt was all in your head.

    While I have read numerious reports about just Loperamide being taken at doses of any where from 50-120mg for a "buzz" it was stated in most of them they did not fell euphoric at all.

    It is not near as strong as Oxycodone.

    Heres a report I found on the internet.

    I used 40mg of it once to combat kratom withdrawals... I can't say I liked it but it definitely gave me a strong body buzz and eased the withdrawals. It made my limbs feel weak sort of like morphine... no euphoria though.

    and

    I have successfully used loperamide to combat withdraws, but never knew you could get euphoria from it.
    __________________________________________________________

    And OP, is it not toxic at that dose.

    P.S: You'll save a LOT of money on toliet paper from now on.

    LO FRIGGIN L
     
  4. MiterSaw

    MiterSaw Silver Member

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    What the pink elephant felt seemed like a "high". He wouldn't count out anything though a he BELIEVES has something called hallucinogen persisting perception disorder.
     
  5. Ontario

    Ontario Silver Member

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    You may have felt a mild buzz, but if you felt happy/content/euphoric essentially, its was placebo.
     
  6. LostControl

    LostControl Silver Member

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    From what I've read about Lop, I think it's similar to other opioids, but they've changed the molecule so that it can't cross the blood-brain-barrier. Hence the reason they can sell it over the counter. It has the effects of opioids (stops intestines - so is helpful with diarrhea), but won't give any "mental" opioid effects. I can see how it could give a "body buzz" - which could be relaxing, and help the person feel relaxed and and a bit euphoric - especially at high doses - but shouldn't give the nodding drowsy effects that opioids like morphine, heroin, etc.,, do.
    Many people swear by it to stop the cramping and diarrhea from withdrawal of opioids. In the olden days, opium used to be used for the same thing.
     
  7. sbt8080

    sbt8080 Titanium Member

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    This is actually in often-discussed topic on the Internet. In fact, in my opinion, it is currently one of the most-discussed (and most-contested) of all the drug "myths" out there.

    I personally didn't believe in this myself at first, because of the official scientific "fact" that loperamide does not cross the blood-brain barrier. However, now it's three years later, and after having my own experiences with it, and reading the countless anecdotal reports online that sound very similar to my own experiences, I do actually believe it is somehow active centrally in high doses.

    I have personally taken from 100-200mg (yes, that's up to 100 pills at a time) in desperation during the height of my addiction periods, and it both completely stopped all opiate withdrawal symptoms, as well as fully maintained my tolerance. It definitely does something to my brain, but I wouldn't necessarily call it "euphoric". It has altered my perception almost every time, but in different ways... sometimes making me dizzy, sometimes (but rarely) making my vision a little blurry, and sometimes making me just feel completely content.

    I do think that the "euphoria" is mostly a subjective, perhaps placebo effect, but with emphasis on the "subjective". I think that it's all a matter of comparison. When you go from feeling like crap to feeling well, such an experience of simply getting relief from sickness could be considered euphoric to some. In fact, the definition of "euphoria" is simply a feeling of well-being or contentment. I think that it's all a matter of proverbial hills and valleys. Going from "sick" to "well" can be just as euphoric as going from "well" to "high". And all addicts know that going from "sick" to "high" is the best feeling in the world (i.e., getting your first dose after a period of withdrawal... after which all subsequent doses don't feel nearly as good).

    The Original Poster claimed he took loperamide during a state of an alcohol hangover. I think it is no accident, then, that he felt happy after loperamide, somehow (however it actually works), made him feel well. If he repeats the experiment while feeling fine but just bored, he might have a different experience.

    I would never take loperamide just for the hell of it. Only in desperation to avoid withdrawal or other sickness. Even though it has worked to make me feel better (and worked consistently, many times), I never feel safe taking 100 of these pills. The fact that it makes me dizzy especially makes me think it can't be good for me. But the fact that it makes me dizzy also makes me think it is acting centrally upon my brain.

    Google it if you're not convinced. There are literally thousands of anecdotal reports (which are not admissible as scientific evidence, I know, but still are convincing) corroborating this.

    (I should add a disclaimer that taking the amount of loperamide described in this post is especially unhealthy to the non-opioid-tolerant, due to the medically recognized physical effects. Getting constipation to the point of fecal impaction can't be fun, and is definitely possible for those who have no opioid tolerance. For the heavy users, however, taking even 200mg usually produces no worse effects than, say, taking an 80-160mg dose of oxycodone.)
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2012
  8. Ontario

    Ontario Silver Member

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    Just no. It is not euphoric. It does not cross the Blood Brain Barrier, it can not be and any euphoria you are reciveing is as you said placebo or subjective, it is not truly euphoric...not to be debated no, its simple...I can find many people corroborating many stupid things all over the net...the fact is, its false and does not cross BBB...thats the fact.
     
  9. Gradient

    Gradient Chem|EB|DMT

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    Ontario, you are unjustifiably certain about something that you don't appear to fully understand. You speak as though the blood-brain barrier is composed of dense diamond sheets, somehow entirely impenetrable to all structures beyond a certain size. While this is typically accurate at normal doses of a given structure generally speaking pharmacologically - a high enough concentration gradient of pretty much anything will force molecules through. Don't forget, the BBB's simply a bunch of tightly-bound epithelial cells that act to significantly minimize penetration. They're just cells. It's not perfect. Since we're indeed discussing very high overdoses, your attempt at dismissively stifling all discussion of this topic is unproductive.

    Also, telling someone what they do or don't feel doesn't strike me as a productive approach to discussion - regardless of whether you happen to be objectively correct or not. Not to mention, 'euphoria' is easily one of the most poorly-defined, and variable words used around drugs fora. I've heard everything from benzos to meth being described as euphoric. Maybe diarrhea meds flip some people's cookies... ; )

    However - this is also likely one of the most popularly discussed topics on the forum, and I'd be surprised if a little more searching couldn't have answered this. Yes, recreational doses oxycodone (in percocets), which are vastly lower than what I've read described for loperamide, will very likely generate a 'stronger' effect than any reasonable (over)dose of loperamide.
     
  10. Ontario

    Ontario Silver Member

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    Well, I will have to respectfully disagree with you sir.

    I understand the subject, although I am not about to launch into an argument on here...I have to much respect for the forum and its members

    I stand by my statements.
     
  11. sbt8080

    sbt8080 Titanium Member

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    You don't want to post a longer reply out of respect for we, the members, but you bother to post a short response simply stating "my previous post is still correct, regardless of everything you just said" (paraphrase)? Does that add anything of value to this thread?

    I personally did not feel that your previous reply was very respectful. Certainly not a "flame" post or anything like that, but because you mentioned that you have too much respect for the members here, I had to mention that.

    You do seem to have read my main point, or at least what I was hoping to be the main point, so let me call it out again:

    While it is true that "euphoria" indeed is a medically-recognized effect of a chemical, I also stand by my statement that euphoria is also a non-medical subjective experience. Addiction is an extremely subjective experience, too. Some people become addicted simply to the routine of administration they're used to, hence why some people insufflate their buprenorphine, etc. (and yes, I know the bioavailabilities differ in that example, but that's not why everyone sniffs it).

    I remember reading on this forum at some point (I frequent the addiction boards) that, to paraphrase, "sometimes simply feeling well after a period of withdrawal is just as good of a 'fix' as the real thing." I hope you get what I'm saying.

    Regardless of all of that, I want to also point out that by the "thousands of anecdotes online," I wasn't necessarily pointing to the ones in which somebody claims "I got high off loperamide!" I find those just silly, myself. Instead, I was thinking more along the lines of the tons of stories in which people described the exact same side effects that I personally have felt dozens of times. These include dizziness, blurred vision, and improved mood/psychological factors.

    I don't doubt scientific fact at all, but I also will never truly know what to believe about this drug until somebody does a new study on this very issue. I have been looking for studies for a long time but haven't seen anything other than the one that everybody has seen, in which "loperamide-containing nanoparticles are coated with polysorbate 80 and injected." I haven't seen any recent study on taking very large doses orally.

    New uses for drugs are found all the time. I don't believe we know everything about everything. Hell, many psychiatric medications work for reasons that are not well-understood at all.

    And I'm one of the most cynical people you would ever meet. I rarely believe anything I read online.
     
  12. hypernihl

    hypernihl Titanium Member

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    Yes, I totally agree with this. Many drugs that are said "not to cross the blood-brain barrier" actually do with a large enough concentration and/or with the addition of P-glycoprotein inhibitors.

    From Wikipedia,

    One common P-glycoprotein inhibitor is quinine.

    I always used quinine with loperamide during opiate withdrawals. I never took large doses of loperamide (~8 mg), but added quinine (~100 mg), and had very good results controlling opiate withdrawal symptoms.

    I have read similar reports with GABA taken in large quantities (~ several grams). Large enough concentration increases the chance of the drug crossing the blood-brain barrier.

    All that being said, these drugs can be dangerous for other reasons when taken in large quantities.
     
  13. trdofbeingtrd

    trdofbeingtrd Palladium Member

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    There are different myths, claims, and actual facts when it comes to different substances.

    For instance and not to go off topic, but there is the "marijuana physical withdrawals" claim, which many including myself do not know to be true. Is this a FACT? No, it's a truth as far as the person views it.

    I do know that loperamide and tonic water helped me with withdrawals, and no I didn't take that much either. What came to my mind when reading this claim is that I know certain substances do very little for me such as cocaine and codeine. Both of these can be addictive and people for sure claim euphoria from them. If it were just my personal experience, I would say this is not a true claim......but we know that's not the case.

    So then I remember about tramadol and how some people get an euphoric "buzz" or "high" so to speak from it, while others do not. Please forgive my ignorance, but there is one specific opiate (thought it was tramadol) that a person getting a good feeling from it has to do with how the liver works, enzymes and what not. I guess there is a level of enzymes required in order for that opiate to be broken down and the user gets the good feeling.

    With loperamide, I cannot personally say that this claim is true, but I can say that there is always the rare people that for whatever medical/biological reason that is just different from the rest. For instance, my brother in law worked with a guy that got a somewhat "buzz" from ibuprofen and even got extremely sleepy from it. Most people in the world get NOTHING from ibuprofen except for pain relief and maybe an upset stomach if not taking it with food.

    The OP is claiming that loperamide gave a "buzz" or "high", and while I see it as just a claim, I am not him......it's possible (but not probable) that this is just a rare person in regards to how his blood brain barrier works. I read a thread on here not to long ago about someone "cleaning" loperamide and slamming (injecting) it, then claimed to get an opiate rush from it. While I do not and would not ever recommend someone injecting loperamide (specifically if the claim were false and the member was making it all up..........NOT saying that member was), you just never know what substance does what.

    I would think that opiate lovers would be jealous more than anything if the claim is true. If it is, can we get this guy to a lab and figure out what the secret is? LOL, just kidding, but really, we just don't know.
     
  14. hypernihl

    hypernihl Titanium Member

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    For the most part I agree with you.

    However, the dose of quinine in tonic water is << 1 mg / liter. So that does not count as taking quinine. Check out the 3 references in the wikipedia post I referenced. Loperamide is as potent as fentanyl at the same concentrations in the brain.

    Loperamide is not a myth, it just may be a matter of concentration, genetics, and of course combinations with other drugs.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
  15. trdofbeingtrd

    trdofbeingtrd Palladium Member

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    Well, with all the words you are using, I got no reason to doubt you ( not saying I believe anything, but you seem to know your stuffs), but the tonic water and small amount of loperamide did help with my kratom withdrawals.

    So, maybe there is LITTLE quindine in tonic water, but it helped me considering I took very small amounts of loperamide.

    What I will say though is THANK YOU, cause now I know if I need the help, I can check out your references to get a higher amount of quindine and maybe it will help out with withdrawals even more, should they come.

    You know what is funny, you sound very familiar, but you are a newbie.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
  16. Hollow Hippie

    Hollow Hippie Silver Member

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    Someone over at bluelight died from loperamide and alcohol, I don't think placebos kill you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2012
  17. hypernihl

    hypernihl Titanium Member

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    I'm not discounting tonic water + loperamide. I honestly do not know the required dose of quinine to properly potentiate loperamide, but higher doses have always worked for me. In the U.S. your supposed to have a prescription for large quantities (~ 100 mg) of quinine, however, it can can be found in high doses in supplements sold legally in the U.S. (in most malls).
     
  18. TheBigBadWolf

    TheBigBadWolf Apprentice Sorcerer Palladium Member Donating Member

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    I have read up thoroughly about loperamide and read several (about twenty) trip reports of people who claimed to have got loperamide "through" the BBB with help of other substances.

    I then took the substance which to combine with lope seemed as safe as possible to me, ingested a certain dose of that substance, an hour before I ingested 24 mg of loperamide.
    I won't say which substance it was, nor which dose I took, because I feel this method to be too unsafe to opiate naive persons to put it out on the open.

    It definitely worked.
    I was on day #3 after my last methadone dose and began to feel withdrawy, which indicates that there was not too much methadone left in my system.
    An hour after the ingestion of the lope I felt my guts become warm and even a slight euphoria was to be felt.
    I can't say whether this was an effect of the lope/substanceX combination or if it was placebo, because I felt relieved that my w/d was going away... Can't say.
    I waited another twelve hours before I took the next dose of methadone, in this time no further w/d symptoms were felt.

    I then thought it reasonable to try this out, because I had a certain opiate tolerance, in the meantime I have changed my opinion, it was very dangerous to do so (because of the effects of substance X combined to loperamide) and I can only tell any reader to not try this at home.

    Loperamide is helpful while withdrawing the strong opiates, but to try make it a substitute for them is as unreasonable as can be, real opiates are not only cheaper per buzz, they are also examined in their effects, which is not the case in combined loperamide/substance x,y or z misuse.

    Stay away from this shit, except for when you have diarrhea.

    TBBW
     
  19. trdofbeingtrd

    trdofbeingtrd Palladium Member

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    Good point Wolf sir, we just had a member who was addicted physically to loperamide, and it was a truly F***ed situation for the said member. Basically he/she was taking a LARGE amount of loperamide and then got stuck on it.

    Good point :)
     
  20. hypernihl

    hypernihl Titanium Member

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    Agreed, I am not advocating using loperamide recreationally, but it is a useful in maintaining through opiate withdrawal. There are substances that will increase it's effectiveness, and it should not be used recreationally.