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Combinations - LSA + Cinnamaldehyde (cinnamon essential oil)

Discussion in 'LSA seeds' started by 69Ron, Jan 30, 2011.

  1. 69Ron

    69Ron Titanium Member

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    I recently saw a post on another forum about the possibility of LSA forming adducts with several different aldehydes besides just acetaldehyde (which supposedly makes LSH). This got me thinking. AFOAF has been researching essential oils like crazy and found out that cinnamon bark essential oil contains a ton of aldehydes. If you look on the net you'll find some talk about a compound called LSH. This is supposedly an adduct made by mixing LSA with acetaldehyde. Commonly people use peppermint oil for this, or certain alcoholic beverages high in acetaldehyde. But what if you mixed cinnamon oil with LSA? It contains a ton of aldehydes, most notably cinnamaldehyde.

    Rather then speculate on the subject, AFOAF just decided to give this combination a test drive.

    He mixed the following at room temperature:

    11 drops propylene glycol (278 mg)
    6 drops cinnamon bark essential oil from (165 mg)
    10 drops of the now black old LSA extract (485 mg of which about 357 micrograms is old LSA)

    This was put into a size 000 capsule and vigorously shaken for 1 minute. It was then taken with a glass of water. Here is AFOAF's trip report as it is currently in progress:

    This is a trip currently in progress. I will update this post a little later when I get more details from AFOAF.

    ...

    This sounds like a very promising mix. The question is, was a new compound created from LSA and cinnamaldehyde, in much the same way as is theorized with LSA and acetaldehyde? Or was this simply an interaction between LSA and cinnamaldehyde?

    Here are the things that changed pretty dramatically in the test as compared to normal LSA:

    * There was no sedation or lethargic feelings whatsoever.
    * There was no vasoconstriction or coldness felt, but rather mild vasodilation and warmth was felt.
    * The visuals were greatly enhanced.
    * The mental effects were like that of "LSH" or LSD, and unlike those of LSA.
    * The onset was about 5 minutes rather than 1-2 hours as is the case usually for LSA.
    * The peak occurred at about 30 minutes rather than 3-4 hours as is the case usually with LSA.
    * The overall effects were stronger than LSA is on its own.

    These are pretty dramatic alterations in the LSA experience. My guess is that the LSA was altered by something in the cinnamon oil.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2011
  2. Cindor

    Cindor Silver Member

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    Hi Ron, AFOAF is the one that talked about LSA and Cinnamaldehyde in another forum. He is very excited about your foaf is actually trying this. He told me that tonight he has done his first try with essential oil of cinnamon and hbwr, just one this time with 2 drops of the oil, but no the first time with the product of the reaction, as he has previously ingested 18 drops of basil's essential oil, 1 gram of cayenne pepper, 600 mg of black pepper and chamomile and 4 datura innoxia seeds.
    So for he it's funny how your foaf and my foaf cross their path right here. I'm sure their keep updating each other about their findings. Cheers for that!
     
  3. 69Ron

    69Ron Titanium Member

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    Essential oils are so often overlooked. Their dangers have been way over dramatized in the media. The fact is that people eat and breathe in essential oils all the time. They are what make coffee smell like coffee, bananas smell like bananas, and cilantro taste like cilantro. The reason a forest smells like a forest is primarily from the essential oils emitted from the plants. Essential oils are the major source of the flavor for many foods we eat.

    Even an essential oil as “toxic” as wintergreen oil is actually a very useful medicine found in many sore muscle relief creams, and is used to flavor gum, root beer, etc. They are not nearly as “toxic” as the media makes them appear.

    1/4 cup of German chamomile flowers contains about 2-4 drops of essential oil. And yet some people are afraid to ingest the essential oil, but believe the flowers to be completely safe. That makes no sense at all. This kind of irrational fear of essential oils is caused by misinformation about essential oil toxicity that has been spread all over the media. The fact is that 2-4 drops of pure German chamomile essential oil is no more toxic than 1/4 cup of German chamomile flowers, and it might even be scientifically argued that it is less toxic because the oil doesn’t contain all the toxins found in the flowers, only a subset of them.

    There is some concern about them being highly concentrated, but that’s about it. Cinnamon oil can irritate your skin but cinnamon powder can’t so easily because the essential oil is more dilute. That’s basically the only difference between using essential oils and the herb they came from. By using the oils directly, you’re using a highly concentrated extract of the herb that contains many, but not all of the herb’s active compounds. For example, yerba mate essential oil doesn’t contain caffeine, but it contains other psychoactives found in yerba mate.

    If you’ve ever made vegetable soup and noticed the oils floating on top, those are a mix of essential oils and fats found in the vegetables. We eat essential oils everyday. They are a normal part of a healthy diet. So all this fear about ingesting essential oils is just plain ridiculous. In fact by cooking with cilantro essential oil instead of fresh cilantro, you need only 1 drop for about 10-30 servings, and it has the taste of fresh cilantro. It’s no more toxic than using several pieces of fresh cilantro for the same amount of flavor, because the flavor of cilantro comes from its essential oils. It’s just highly concentrated so you use a tiny amount. It saves you a ton of money and it lasts a few years without refrigeration. Why buy cilantro when its just going to wilt in a few days, turn bad, and cost you more, when cilantro essential oil tastes as good as fresh cilantro, is cheaper, and lasts for years?

    I’m glad I learned about essential oils. It’s like a whole new world of herbs a lot of people never explore. Wintergreen essential oil is a great minty aspirin substitute that tastes great in tea. Aspirin tastes like crap. Sweet basil essential oil goes really well in spaghetti, pizza, lasagna, etc. Cilantro essential oil goes really well in Mexican and Thai dishes.

    I used to buy a lot of dry spices for cooking. Now I’m switching to essential oils for cooking when possible. It’s cheaper, and doesn’t add grit to your dishes. And in many cases the essential oils taste better than the dried herbs they come from.


    It’s amazing how many new combinations there are that have yet to be explored.

    How did that turn out? AFOAF has found basil oil (the kind high in methyl chavicol) to be a very nice stimulant, feeling similar to mescaline, with mild psychedelic effects when taken with German chamomile, but when used alone, it’s just a sedative. It’s effects clearly change from the CYP1A2 inhibition caused by the German chamomile. He’s not tried mixing it with Datura innoxia and black pepper. That’s an interesting mix. The black pepper should supply some CYP3A4 inhibition. I’m guessing that the Datura would add to the visuals?
     
  4. 80sbaby

    80sbaby Silver Member

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    so are yall essentially saying that, while this is not fact, there is high reason to believe the theory that uses of different essential oils in a lsa mix, can all result in huge differences in trips experiences?
    with a cocktail like this, the "mixed drink" section just got alot more popular.
     
  5. Cindor

    Cindor Silver Member

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    My foaf knows about your research with methyl chavicol, elemicin, myristicin and eugenol. His first attempt with basil essential oil was a year ago, now he is planning on testing some anethole with CYP1A2 enzyme inhibited soon.
    About last night: the datura seems to take longer than usual to show their full effects and some kind of potentiation was apparent, the four seeds hits like much more than that. Anyway it was a good experience.
    My foaf was wondering if your foaf has tried mixing the oils with nux vomica? Sure my foaf is going to test that. No need to get the warning signals, he knows what he is dealing with, usually 1-4 drops of tincture is what he use.

    Cindor added 4 Minutes and 38 Seconds later...

    That's the hypothesize, but it's not with just any essential oil, they need an aldehyde group in them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  6. 69Ron

    69Ron Titanium Member

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    Cindor, AFOAF has a few times used nux vomica with elemicin. He uses nux vomica seed powder in a capsule and no longer uses a tincture. He uses doses of 50-100 mg. His current batch is a little on the weak side. Normally he uses 25-50 mg of the powder. Nux vomica goes well with everything he’s tried. It amplifies all the sensory effects of the common psychedelics and even elemicin, and also adds some stimulation and euphoria. With elemicin, nux vomica increases the visuals and adds an LSD-style expanded consciousness-like effect.

    To prepare the seeds to be powderized, you bake them in an oven at 300 F for 30 minutes. At that time they inflate into little UFO shaded disks. Then you can easily grind them using a cheap blade type coffee grinder without destroying the coffee grinder. Don’t attempt to grind them without baking them, they will destroy your grinder. They are one of the toughest seeds in the world.

    NOTE TO OTHERS ON NUX VOMICA: nux vomica is a very potent stimulant/nootropic. Adults should not use more than 100 mg of the seeds, and not more than 3 times a day. Overdoses of nux vomica are deadly.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2017
  7. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

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    Hey all,

    Swims friend has been interested in oils for quite some time now too. Originally more for their amphetamine counterparts, but after reading alot of the work swiy guys have been up to. Swim thought he might be able to somehow contribute.

    His latest research has been more in the sage area as of lately. Recently made oils from common sage, rosemary, basil, and russian sage.

    Like swiRon said, people have no idea whats in all these oils. For gods sakes common sage oil contains 1/3 thujone making it a higher concentration than wormwood.

    Swims friend also jsut got some more extracted LSA in stock :). Collaboration is key to making these claims real. How did swiRon obtain his cinnamon oil? Was it obtained directly as such or via steam distill/solvent extraction?

    Swims friend will go purchase some bulk cinnamon or the oil and try for his self. And while he's at it, will get some peppermint oil bought too.

    But hes not going to simply mix the two.

    Heres his friends idea to synth some shit:

    Dissolve extracted LSA and cinnamon oil in minimum amount of methanol. Let the mix sit in the fridge for a day, agitating/shaking often. Once done, evaporate off methanol. Then wash resulting extract with toluene to get out the oils. Should be left with an altered LSA extract.

    Peace
     
  8. 69Ron

    69Ron Titanium Member

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    AFOAF's steam distilled cinnamon essential oil was purchased from an herb store on-line. It’s pretty easy to find on-line. Some walk-in herb stores even have it.

    I don’t think plain cinnamon would be worth your while to extract. Cinnamon essential oil is cheaper than the equivalent amount of cinnamon. This is the case for nearly all herbs.

    The idea of mixing the two with methanol might work, but it also might not.

    LSH is said to be VERY UNSTABLE and might not survive the extraction’s drying step. From what I’ve heard, LSH is present in HBWR at harvest time, and there is NO LSA present. But once you crack open the seed or let it sit for a while, LSH comes apart and forms LSA and acetaldehyde.

    If this theoretical LSA + cinnamaldehyde is even possible, it may be similar to LSH, being very unstable, and might be destroyed when the extract is dried. I’d be very curious to find out.

    Maybe instead of using methanol, which is toxic and must be evaporated away before ingestion, one can do an A/B with water and limonene? Basically one would mix the LSA and cinnamon oil vigorously with cold edible ethanol. Then after a while add water and limonene. The oils will migrate into the limonene and the LSA + cinnamaldehyde product should probably stay in the water. One could then drink the water. I suggest this because I’m just worried about the drying step being a problem.

    Think about it. If LSH was at all stable, then why doesn’t it appear on blotter papers or in capsules sold on the black market? I am sure some big time drug manufactures have already tried it and it doesn’t work. Either it’s unstable or this whole LSH idea is simply a theory and nothing more.

    LSH has been known since the early days of LSD production. Many analogs of LSD have appeared on the black market. LSH never has, nor has any other aldehyde adduct of LSA ever appeared.

    But then again, it could just be that no one ever took it seriously enough to try it. That’s always possible.
     
  9. Cindor

    Cindor Silver Member

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    Ethanolic extract of cinnamon bark does the job, sure vodka or rhum will do it, afoaf even got good results chewing hbwr along with a piece of cinnamon, so this reaction, so far, doesn't seems to be a hit and miss like LSH conversion. The whole idea of this experiment came to afoaf because:
    Cinnamaldehyde does the opposite too HBWR side effects
    Is a vasodilator
    Is a stimulant
    Enhance visuals and mental effects
    The reasons my foaf think's that LSH convertion is a hit and miss maybe because of the low BP of Acetaldehyde, 20.2 ºC, while Cinnamaldehyde have a BP of 248ºC.
     
  10. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

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    Hey man,

    First off, although swims friend thinks the toxicity of SOME solvents is alot of times exaggerated, he still is very careful with what he does. And has been messing with chemistry for long enough to be safe.

    As for the stability, swim can understand the concerns. Big manufacturers never mess with substances that have small $ return. Trying to extract large amounts of LSA and sell at LSD prices would prove to be worthless. Its hard to lift off new substances too.

    The LSH might have shitty stability. But other aldehyde/LSA combos might be more stable. Plus who would want to even mess with a compound with such instability if there is so many other good ones out there.

    Swim agrees on the essential oil vs bulk herb cost. But for some oils its hard for siwm to find, as he likes to buy OTC if possible. Buying online gets sketch for him. But cinnamon oil shouldnt be too hard to find. What other oils contain aldehyde type products in them?

    The only way we will ever find out any of these answers is if someone gives it a try. Bioassays are great and all but will only continue the speculation, real research with controlled experiments is needed. Swims friend is saying right here, right now, he is wiling to help.

    Peace
     
  11. rawbeer

    rawbeer Titanium Member

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    This makes me think - is Limonene a viable alternative to Naptha in cleaning HBWR seeds? It would be preferable for various reasons (smell, toxicity, and some people may have like a gallon of the stuff sitting around).

    Swim tried it once and his LSA extract was horribly weak. He was afraid to try it again for fear that the limonene held onto the LSA, but it may have just been lousy seeds that lowered the potency.

    Sorry to go off topic but has anyone tried this or is anyone able to comment? 69Ron, your post seems to imply that LSA is not soluble in limonene, do you know this to be true?
     
  12. 69Ron

    69Ron Titanium Member

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    Rawbeer, I just suggested it assuming LSA is not soluble in limonene. AFOAF knows for sure that the salt form of LSA in HBWR is soluble in acetone, so it MIGHT be soluble in limonene, but I doubt it. The next time he extracts LSA he'll test it out using two batches of the same seed powder, one washed with limonene and the other washed with heptane.

    Note that some essential oils in the seeds may be active, and may contribute to side effects or even pleasant effects, and washing the seeds with a non-polar solvent is going to remove them.

    During AFOAF’s LSA extractions he initially Soxhlet extracts the ground HBWR seeds using acetone for about 8 hours. After that he evaporates off the acetone, dissolves it in water with citric acid at pH 5, and then he defats 10 times with dichloromethane. Then he freebases it with sodium carbonate at pH 8.5, and then extracts into the dichloromethane a few times. Then he evaporates off the dichloromethane. This works pretty well at getting fairly pure LSA (and other alkaloids), but the result is sticky and needs some cleanup steps usually.

    I assume since the LSA is not soluble in dichloromethane unless freebased that it would also not be soluble in limonene because limonene is LESS polar.

    69Ron added 18 Minutes and 29 Seconds later...

    That’s very interesting. AFOAF has not tested this “reaction” enough to know if it can fail or not. A few others say it always works.

    The things that really make me think a reaction occurs are:

    * The onset, peak, and duration of the effects are completely different from that of either taken separately.
    * It feels like a single drug. You cannot feel one linger longer than the other. You cannot feel the onset off the LSA or cinnamon oil happening separately. There is no point where it ever feels like LSA or the cinnamon oil is peaking separately.
    * The cinnamon oil and the LSA taken separately are much weaker for AFOAF.

    It’s either super amazing synergy and potentiation or a new compound is indeed created.

    That makes sense. All throughout the entire experience AFOAF felt warm, comfortable. Never once was there the slightest feeling of LSA’s notorious vasoconstriction effects. The combination was different from LSA, and also different from LSH. AFOAF would say it was more mescaline-ish than LSH. The comfortable feeling is reminiscent of mescaline.

    Yeah. That’s why I think the “reaction” works better when everything is very cold. Acetaldehyde easily vaporizes away at room temperature. AFOAF has always had more success when using iced peppermint tea for the reaction, leaving it with ice in the refrigerator overnight, and drinking it ice cold.

    I wonder what other interesting aldehydes might also produce nice effects?

    69Ron added 21 Minutes and 5 Seconds later...



    As was mentioned above, acetaldehyde boils at room temperature and since LSH is just a simple adduct, that low boiling point of acetaldehyde would make it unstable at room temperature, as I understand it. I bet you cannot keep LSH at room temperature very long without it being protected somehow.

    Cinnamaldehyde, as stated above, is a high boiling point aldehyde, and an adduct of cinnamaldehyde and LSA should not so easily come apart because the cinnamaldehyde doesn’t want to vaporize away at room temperature like acetaldehyde does.

    My gut feeling is that this LSA+cinnamaldehyde adduct, if it is real, is probably very stable, unlike LSH. I’ll bet you can extract LSA, convert it to the adduct, and it will last many months at room temperature as an adduct, until some other force pulls it apart.

    This is exciting research.



    Yeah, I hate speculation. Bioassays only prove activity, and nothing else. If you can nail this one down that would be great.



    That’s a good question. I’ll be researching this. An aldehyde that is a stimulant and has vasodilation effects would be ideal. Cinnamaldehyde is both. It would be nice to find one that is more LSD-like. One with more of a strychnine-like nootropic effect. LSD and strychnine have very similar nootropic effects at low doses. In fact strychnine almost feels like LSD in small doses.

    Anyway, the search for more knowledge continues. I bet there’s an aldehyde that’s better than even cinnamaldehyde. It’s probably just a matter of time before one is found.

    So what other oils do we start looking at? What other aldehydes are active like cinnamaldehyde?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2017
  13. ElusiveMind

    ElusiveMind Newbie

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    NOTE: SWIM is NOT a chemist of any kind, so do SWIY's own research too on the following before trying ANYTHING. Thank SWIY ;)

    One possible candidate could be Bitter Almond Essential Oil

    Bitter Almond Oil

    Contains Benzaldehyde
    Boiling point: 178.1 C
    Solubility with water: 0.6grams / 100ml ( 20C )

    The "other natural sources" may be warranted in a second...


    Not sure if Hydrogen Cyanide would be part of the essential oil... but looks like a possible candidate but more and better research is needed to make sure it is safe.

    Anise Oil

    Contains Anisaldehyde
    Boiling point: 248 C

    **need more information**

    Vanilla Bean Oil

    Contains Vanillin
    Boiling point: 285 C
    Solubility in water: 1gram / 100ml (25C)

    An interesting tid-bit:
    Hope this helps continue the research.

    ElusiveMind
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2017
  14. DanBanan

    DanBanan Newbie

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    I'm curious towards how Elemicin might affect the LSA + Cinnamaldehyde mix.
    It is known to alter and/or empower the psychedelic effects of other drugs, if there is a new psychedelic formed in this mix, who knows what Elemicin will do to it?
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011
  15. 69Ron

    69Ron Titanium Member

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    Good point about the elemicin. AFOAF will have to try that one.

    I'm wondering also if cinnamaldehyde is simply acting as a potent CYP2A6 inhibitor, and that alone is causing this huge alteration in LSA metablism? Cinnamaldehyde is a potent CYP2A6 inhibitor, and so are a few other aldehydes. Maybe this is part of it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2017
  16. DanBanan

    DanBanan Newbie

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    A good way to find out if there is a new psychedelic formed or simply the effects of Cinnamaldehyde complimenting the LSA trip would be to take LSA through sublingual administration. (As proven to work in this thread: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110735) and see if the same thing happens when they never meet in the stomach. (if my thinking's right)

    A few questions though while I'm here! Since AFOAF is planning to make a mix of a whole bunch of compounds that seems to compliment each other!
    Will eugenol make LSA degrade? Will sweet Basil oil hurt it? Nutmeg oil?
    If not, I think AFOAF has an exciting, probably highly psychedelic drink to make!
    It's not really all LSA related, but I'll add the recipe here as a tail end to the post: (all written by AFOAF)

    How does this mix look? is there anything there should be more or less of? (or not in there at all?)
    (AFOAF wants to balance them up and make them compliment each other as good as possible. LSA should be empowered and turned visual by both elemicin and cinnamaldehyde, elemicin and methyl chavicol will potentiate eachother, the nutmeg oil contains a lot of different stuff, the eugenol will probably empower them all. etc, you make the connections )

    I didn't want to create a new thread for this, and I know 69Ron lurks here and will probably give a good answer since this is his field!
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2011
  17. 69Ron

    69Ron Titanium Member

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    DanBanan, my main concerns are the LSA content is very high, and the basil oil (methyl chavicol) is very high.

    It’s a good idea to test the waters of basil oil (methyl chavicol) with the CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 inhibitors in that mix prior to taking that mix. The German chamomile is a potent CYP1A2 inhibitor and it can make pretty small doses of basil oil potently psychedelic for AFOAF. Without the chamomile, its not psychedelic. For him a dose of 0.35 ml of basil oil is strong enough to produce visuals on its own when taken with 3 drops of German chamomile essential oil. However, he is notoriously sensitive to all psychedelics.

    The psychedelic methyl chavicol in basil is metabolized to complete inactivity normally by CYP1A2 and CYP2A6. So on its own its not psychedelic at all. In your mix above you have a potent CYP2A6 inhibitor present: the cinnamaldehyde in the cinnamon bark essential oil. I don’t know of anyone as of yet using cinnamon bark essential oil with methyl chavicol. A CYP1A2 inhibitor makes it psychedelic for AFOAF. But adding a CYP2A6 inhibitor to the mix might make it super psychedelic.

    My advice is to test the methyl chavicol with the German chamomile and the cinnamon bark oil prior to messing around with such a complex mix. My feeling is that methyl chavicol in combination with these two different inhibitors is going to be much more psychedelic. Methyl chavicol is not like elemicin, in that elemicin is pretty friendly, and a large dose is pretty easy for anyone to handle, even people unfamiliar with psychedelics. With elemicin, even with a CYP1A2 inhibitor it doesn’t work on some people. Methyl chavicol is more of a heavy duty psychedelic and seems to work on most people when taken with a CYP1A2 inhibitor. I have as of yet not seen a single report that found methyl chavicol inactive when taken with a CYP1A2 inhibitor. Plus I don’t know anyone who’s taken a large dose of it. There is a guy on another forum who’s talked about his friend taking 300 mg of pure methyl chavicol (about 1/3 of a ml) with 3 drops of German chamomile and the effects were as intense as a typical dose of LSD. This guy doesn’t trip from elemicin at all, even with German chamomile, and so he was quite surprised by the effects.

    My other comment is on the HBWR dosage. For AFOAF, that’s an awful overdose, 3 HBWR is his maximum dose, but for others that does nothing at all. Be careful using HBWR in combination with cinnamon bark oil. In AFOAF’s tests LSA is stronger when taken with cinnamon bark oil. I don’t know, but German chamomile MIGHT also potentiate LSA. Elemicin does for sure, and so does methyl chavicol apparently. So I’m thinking the LSA amount is on the high end. It’s going to be potentiated by the elemicin, methyl chavicol, cinnamon oil, etc., so I don’t see a reason to use so much LSA. But then AFOAFis very sensitive to LSA. 1 seed is enough for effects without anything else added to it.

    AFOAF’s advice is to lower the LSA content by 3 times what one would normally use.

    I’ve read that Saint John’s Wort inhibits the effects of LSD. But this was from unreliable sources that I can’t seem to verify. AFOAF needs to test this with LSA and others to be sure this is true or not.

    The other things in the mix look like good amounts.

    The Elemi X5, if it’s a recent one, from what I understand contains about 100 mg of elemicin per ml (judged by comparing it with pure elemicin in bioassays by AFOAF), so 4 ml is nothing to be concerned about. AFOAF is very sensitive to elemicin, and a dose of 400 mg of elemicin with German chamomile is not at all heavy for him, but it is very nice. It is heavy for at least 1 person AFOAF knows, but it’s weak for most people. AFOAF has taken larger doses than that and it never becomes too intense. It’s almost 100% visual with almost no other psychedelic effects, making it very easy to take large doses of. But when mixed with LSA, WOW! A whole new level of intensity is experienced. Even people who don’t normally get effects from elemicin will normally get a strong boost for LSA from it. Somehow LSA helps activate elemicin in some people.

    So the mix looks good to AFOAF with a lowering of the LSA and methyl chavicol contents. The Saint John’s Wort is debatable. Not enough tests with it have been reported to say much about it.


    I don’t think you need to worry about the LSA degrading with any of those oils, unless it would be stored for extended periods of time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2011
  18. DanBanan

    DanBanan Newbie

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    Alright! Will lower the dosage for both LSA and methyl chavicol if AFOAF is going to do this experiment. He'll get the feel of methyl chavicol by itself too beforehand, if it is that strong! (AFOAFs normal HBWR dose is 6-8 seeds, this might be why he underestimated them)
    Good advice, thanks!
     
  19. 69Ron

    69Ron Titanium Member

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    Male from U.S.A.
    AFOAF uses 1-3 HBWR seeds. His brother needs about 10 seeds of the same batch for the same level of effects AFOAF gets from 1 seed. Go figure. His brother is jealous because for every drug they've both tried it takes his brother more to get the same level of effects.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2017
  20. psychedelia

    psychedelia Silver Member

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    Male from U.S.A.
    (I apologize if this is considered a bump, the thread is about a month old but it's still the sixth most recent topic on this board.)

    My sister is considering trying this because it appears potentially better than the peppermint conversion of LSA to LSH, but does not have access to powerful alcohols that can be used to extract the LSA. Would it be sufficient for a test to simply do a well-performed cold-water extraction of the LSA, then add in cinnamon oil? My sister's plan was to, after extracting the LSA into the water and straining, put in about 6 drops of the cinnamon oil and leave in the refridgerator away from light while shaking periodically. If this would work, how long should my sister keep the mixture before drinking?

    Also, what is the purpose of the propylene glycol if the LSA is already extracted? That part confused my little sister a bit.

    Thanks!