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marijuana for heroin detox?

Discussion in 'Opiate addiction' started by skatergwmjim, Dec 9, 2009.

  1. skatergwmjim

    skatergwmjim Newbie

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    Nov 7, 2009
    Male from U.S.A.
    a friend suggested swim try marijuana, since swim is incredibly sick. an outpatient counselor suggested a detox. in fact, she said if swim wanted to go to that outpatient program, swim would have to have 5 days clean first (sounds about right) and that swim should go to a detox. however, detox is not an option, since swim is in a similar profession where swim has referred clients to same detox; and besides, swims coworkers would figure out that swim went out and got hooked again and must have been using on the job and that leads to all sorts of problems. again. anyway, swim is tired of vomiting and this friend said that marijuana might calm swim's nerves and sooth swim's stomach a bit. swim doesn't respond to pot so well, and would prefer xanax, but swim likes xanies way too much, so that's really not a good option. swim has suboxone, but that's been making him vomit more. so, any suggestions for detoxing? with marijuana? incidentally, swim is now convinced that heroin cannot be done recreationally, so instead of doing the same thing and expecting different results, swim wants to get off everything for good. swim can't stand the withdrawals, but is also worried that replacing one drug with another might be dangerous.
  2. Ill~Will

    Ill~Will Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Male from U.S.A.
    Well swim doesn't think replacing heroin with Marijuana would be dangerous
    swim just thinks it might not fully help with swiys withdrawals. It will help
    with some of the anxiety though. It may take some getting used too
    though because it usually makes people who don't smoke it often kind
    of paranoid and think weird shit.
  3. Helene

    Helene Gold Member

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    Jul 27, 2009
    Female from U.K.
    Swim would agree that cannabis wouldn't be a danger, in terms of "replacing one drug with another". She thinks this sort of statement applies mainly to physically addictive drugs, such as other opiates. Heroin and cannabis really aren't on the same scale, once you've been through (and hopefully got out the other end of) a heroin addiction, coping with all the horrendous physical withdrawal symptoms you've had to go through, somehow swim doesn't reckon you'd have much of a problem stopping smoking the occasional bit of weed that was used during your detox.

    BUT one thing swim would say, is that if you don't respond well to cannabis normally, chances are you'll respond to it in an even worse way when used during heroin withdrawal.

    Swim doesn't respond well to cannabis either. She used to smoke it regularly when she was a lot younger (like between the ages of 13 and 16), but stopped enjoying its effects fairly quickly. It didn't so much cause her to freak out completely, just started to give everything a slightly uncomfortable edge, gave swim a fucking awful headache, and made her feel slightly nauseous. Swim carried on smoking cannabis occasionally, until it became clear that this effect was consistently happening, and then stopped altogether.

    She has once tried smoking weed whilst ill from heroin withdrawal. And it was not a good idea, at all. All those previous nasty effects came back, but pretty much 100-fold in intensity. It made her head spin, made her feel even sicker than she was already feeling, and just increased that horrible, edgy, uncomfortable, not being able to stay still feeling that you get when you're in heroin withdrawal.

    But swim has heard from people who say cannabis does ease the pain of withdrawal, for them. And she doesn't doubt that for some people it can work. Although swim would assume that these are the sort of people who smoke, and enjoy smoking cannabis normally, and suffer no ill effects from it. Swim has never heard of someone who doesn't react well to cannabis normally reacting well to it whilst in heroin withdrawal.

    So it's definitely worth thinking about, but it's quite possible that it'll make things a lot worse. Really depends on how you react to it, some people it'll help, others it'll make feel even more awful. Bit of a risk, swim certainly wouldn't try it again, but it's up to you really...

    Last edited: Dec 9, 2009
  4. bosshallucy

    bosshallucy Silver Member

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    Oct 30, 2009
    Male from U.S.A.
    Kratom. Lots of kratom.
  5. Sniffin Sunshine

    Sniffin Sunshine Newbie

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    Oct 29, 2008
    Female from U.S.A.
    sunshines experiance is prettymuch ideantical to this actually, she knows exactly what you mean about that uncomfortable edge.
    it always gave her this feeling of just being totally isolated from everything, but in a very uncomfortable way. like she was looking at people and things that she was fond of in a whole different almost shameful way, like with no emotion at all or something.. a feeling she really cannot fully describe, but let her assure you it is horrible, and indeed heroin withdrawal made it much much worse.

    that being said though, swim did not always get that effect, maybe about 1 in 5 times she smoked weed she felt that way, and the times she didnt, the weed took a bit of edge off of the withdrawal, the key wa to only smoke a little bit i believe, like just a few hits. then it would help her sit still a bit, and calmed the anxiety.

    withdrawal is always uncomfortable, though
    and the only thing that will completely get rid of all the effects is another opiate, which then runs the risk of a substituted addiction, which swiy has mentioned they do not want.

    as far as the suboxone, swim is interested in why this would make swiy sick, i know everyone responds to things differently, but still it is a curious reaction. is it possible that swiy's dose of suboxone was actually too much? when swim had a smaller h habit too much suboxone made her nauseous as well. just a thought though.

    other than that, a couple ideas on detoxing without substitution are tramadol, kartom, as someone else mentioned, and maybe poppy pods.

    tramadol is a centrally acting synthetic opioid analgesic. I am not sure exactly how it works, but swim has this to say about it:
    before she ever had a habit with opiates 300mg doses of tramadol gave her a slightly opiated feeling, but is quite weak compared to other opiates. After even developing a habit, tramadol produced no high whatsoever in any dose for swim but did limit withdrawal symptoms quite a bit- she will not attempt to estimate any doses as everyone is different and must find what is right for them. this is using another drug, but swim would recommend giving this a try as in her experiance it did not produce a high, but really did help with withdrawals.

    swim has never responded will to kartom, it just makes her increddibly nauseous and misreable, but some people swear by this method, so it is worth checking out

    and poppy pods, which take some effort to turn into a digestable substance, find the right amount for a detox, and do require somewhat of a cutback- but it is another method worth researching

    hope this helps a bit
  6. GoldenBrown


    Reputation Points:
    Dec 1, 2009
    37 y/o Male from U.S.A.
    Swim has never found marijuana too help of when he is feeling sick via no heroin. However the one drug that swim has found, other than other opiates is ketamine. Swim finds that ketamine takes his aches and pains away, also finding that it takes away some of swims mental anguish about not having dope.
  7. BrownStreakRailroad

    BrownStreakRailroad Silver Member

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    Sep 11, 2008
    Male from U.K.
    SWIM would not even attempt detox without weed as when he has tried to quit in rehab....nothing at all and he just goes stir crazy!! bit of weed and he just relaxes and gets on with the mission, it puts his mind at rest....he knows its not the same for others tho as some people will feel worse taking cannabis as it makes them paranoid etc.....
  8. dyingtomorrow

    dyingtomorrow Palladium Member R.I.P.

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    Oct 16, 2008
    Male from U.S.A.
    From what SWIM has seen, it varies greatly from person to person.

    SWIM does not like the marijuana feeling at all to begin with, it reminds him of a shitty suboxone high (tired, zoned out, zero euphoria), so he generally stays away from it. On the other hand, when SWIM's withdrawing he'll do anything he can get his hands on, and has smoked during withdrawals many times. In severe withdrawals it is not going to do anything, but in light withdrawals it can help some. One of SWIM's worst withdrawal problems is his mouth constantly watering, and needing to spit literally every 3-5 seconds, and this is something that pot can help with. It also can help with sleep, again, in light withdrawals.

    Like SWIM said, this varies greatly among users - the general rule SWIM thinks is that if you like smoking pot and it makes you feel good, it'll probably help a bit toward the end of acute withdrawal, where you are still on the edge, but not in severe traumatizing pain.
  9. votrevelly

    votrevelly Newbie

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    Sep 13, 2007
    Male from U.K.
    As mentioned previously it depends on how SWIY would usually react to the marijuana and how, in contrast, SWIY would react when going through heroin withdrawals. Some people, SWIM included, find that smoking weed can escalate anxiety and/or paranoid feelings, and as anxiety is usually heightened during peak periods of opiate withdrawal, smoking any amount of weed is probably not the best idea.

    SWIY mentioned SWIY would prefer to use xanax but is worried about the potential of it replacing heroin as SWIYour drug of choice. Well, any benzodiazepine is obviously going to be helpful during opiate withdrawals, and SWIM thinks SWIYour best bet would be benzos for the short term relief, whether it be xanax, valium, whatever SWIY feels would be most helpful. SWIM suggests a benzo with short to medium duration of action, such as lorazepam or diazepam.

    SWIY also mentioned that subuxone makes SWIY sick. It is possible the suboxone is making SWIY sick simply because the heroin is still in SWIYour system. Therefore, it may be beneficial to substitute suboxone/subutex for xanax after the first few days of short term withdrawals (possibly overlapping the use and sensibly tapering and adjusting doses), giving it enough time to clear the H out and preventing a benzo habit developing. SWIY could then use the suboxone/subutex to taper down and leave minimal withdrawal symptoms, according to his individual needs of course.

    These are just rough guidelines as to how to achieve minimal hassle during SWIYour withdrawals. Obviously there's a lot of variables to be decided by SWIY and SWIY alone, but if any help is needed, SWIM is here.
  10. Shinylemon

    Shinylemon Newbie

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    Jul 29, 2009
    Male from Canada
    SWIM is a long time stoner, going way way back to before SWIMS opiates days.

    SWIM find that marijuana can actually increase the aches and pains of w/d's, as well as the mental part. The only time SWIM would ever smoke marijuana on w/d's would be while using subbies or dones, as a way to get back the mental addiction/boredom.

    Hope this helps!
  11. anonuser30500

    anonuser30500 Titanium Member

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    May 9, 2009
    47 y/o Male from U.K.
    It could depend on the marijuana or hash you actually smoke. After all, anyone smoking some real bad cannabis might well feel the effects are 'dirty' and fairly useless.

    Hash is usually the best for heroin addicts withdrawing. It has been used in the UK for ages but has come out of fashion as the commercial hash became low grade rubbish that is cheap as buttons and maybe made out of buttons for all we know.

    Everyone will differ though and some people do not take to cannabis or hash and never will.

    Rather than smoking hash, it might be best for addicts withdrawing to eat it or make some kinda drink as well as smoking some also (if they actually smoke)
  12. Pollen

    Pollen Silver Member

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    Oct 12, 2007
    Male from U.S.A.
    Swim says:

    I suppose I'll add my voice to the chorus of "it depends". When I'm going through withdrawal weed is a godsend. It improves my mood, makes me feel less achey, and encourages me to eat. I do smoke weed every day anyway, though, and I've never had any problems with increased anxiety and marijuana.

    There's no harm in trying it. If it feels bad you'll only be weed high for two hours anyway.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2010
  13. SidMaddox

    SidMaddox Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    Dec 13, 2009
    well, SWIM doesn't have a personal experience to give as an example, but can give the second-hand stories he's heard/read...

    in the book Junky, William S. Burroughs claims that marijuana will help a good bit with H withdrawal. according to him, it will take away a lot of the WD symptoms like headaches, nausea and inability to eat. it should help you to be able to eat and keep some things down.

    but, as has been said here already, if SWIY's habit was/is particularly bad and SWIY's withdrawal is particuarly intense, pot probably isn't gonna tip the iceberg much. nothing will, though, i'm sorry to say. the options are basically:

    ---try the weed self-medicating, which will probably help at least a little.
    ---to ride it out, or, in other words, just deal with the withdrawal and wait for it to end, which i realize is a pretty awful thought.
    ---replace it with a less-severe opiate in an attempt to slowly ween yourself off, which will at least lessen the withdrawal when SWIY finally goes off the opiates altogether, although there will still be some WD.
    ---or you could see your case-worker/doctor who prescribed you to suboxone and see if you can get them to put you on a higher dose that will hopefully help the withdrawal more; if SWIY is still vomitting even on suboxone, you're probably not on a high enough dose. suboxone shouldn't really cause vomitting, as far as i know, unless SWIY happens to be allergic to it, which would be particularly unfortunate. i could be wrong though.

    well, i think the marijuana idea is not a bad one. even if it doesn't help, it can't hurt. pot has no risk of addiction and also will not cause withdrawal if and when SWIY stops smoking it.
  14. ex-junkie

    ex-junkie Newbie

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    Feb 23, 2009
    Female from Australia
    marijuana did little to take the edge off for swim when she was detoxing/withdrawing. drowsy antihistamines, clonidine and buprenorphine is the best combination if you get the dosing right. ;)

    unfortunately for many people, swim included, it was impossible to detox off of heroin and stay clean. she really needed and benefited from methadone maintenance, in order to stop using heroin. then later detoxed off of the methadone once she had a good quality of life, and was no longer dependant on the smack.

    everyone is different though.
  15. oliwog

    oliwog Newbie

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    May 19, 2008
    Male from U.K.
    swim is a avid marijuana smoker an has been smokin the herb for over ten years all day every day, swim has a H habit(6month) a finds the that when swim is in early withdrawel weed makes it much worse an seems to greatly magnify the shakes an sweats swim gets, swim hasnt gone for longer than a day from using H so doesnt know how weed will work when experiencing full withdrawels but swim is gonna try detoxing next week so is gonna find out, swim doesnt want to use H anymore as its crap an expensive an no longer gets swim high anymore.
    swim would say to anyone wanting to stay clean that weed would do wonders in terms of taking ones mind off of H an giving you a buzz an giving you that something to occupy the mind an relieve cravings, and once you get used to the buzz from weed it isnt far off of a H buzz, i kinda describe a H buzz as being like a real heavy stone.
    weed isnt very harmful either depending how you use it, if you deicide to take up a weed habit instead of a H habit you should invest in a vapourizer as they are much healthier, a daily dose of cannabinoids actually does the body more good than harm. obviously smoking it with or without baccy still has its risks.
    any ways swim wouldnt reccomed it for withdrawels at all but would defo say to use it for cravings once one is off the gear.
  16. hammertime

    hammertime Silver Member

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    Jan 9, 2010
    38 y/o Male from U.K.
    SWIM would definately say that cannabis is a big mistake on withdrawal in his opinion.

    swim used to love weed when he was younger but as he got older he really don't get on with it.

    IF he smoked weed on a rattle he knows he would do anything to get his hands on a bag because it would intensify his rattle.

    He thinks for regular weed smokers it may help but in his opinion it would be a massive mistake. SWIM may be wrong for some people it may help but he is 100% certain it would make him relapse personally.

    SWIM knows people who swear by using speed to do there rattle but swim would definately not recommend this either and is pretty sure it would not work for him.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2010
  17. benman08

    benman08 Newbie

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    Mar 21, 2012
    27 y/o Male from U.S.A.
    been a long time fan of the site and im officially loosing my posting virginity. Swim is currently going through the second day of recent withdrawal from heroin and is heading to rehab in 2 days. Reason being is that this rehab no longer has detox and requires anyone joining the program to be clean from everything except marijuana. It could be worse cause swim has only been on a 3 month heroin/oxymorphone binge and has only prob went 3 or 4 days of the past 3 months without some kind of opiate, and swim at least smokes a joint or more a day no matter what. so the withdrawal is pretty intense but if it wasn't for swim's loperamide and mary lane swim would never be able to be clean for rehab. swim just took 18mg or loperamide and has smoked 3 joints and plans on smoking more. Everyone is different but for swim this combination is enough to calm the nervous system and alleviate some digestive issues to wear swim can eat and even sleep 6 to 8 hours.
  18. Mick Mouse

    Mick Mouse Palladium Member

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    Jul 8, 2006
    54 y/o Male from Colorado, U.S.A.
    Cannabis, especially medical-grade cannabis, for those who are fortunate to live in an area where such a thing is lawful, is very useful for controlling nausea in cancer patients, as well as being of use for muscle spasms and pain, among other ailments. I have seen many members here who advocate the use of marijuana in a withdrawal/detox situation, especially in countries where access to drugs such as Buprenorphine and Methadone, is limited or restricted completely. One would have to research the different strains and hybrids available to ascertain which might be best for a particular collection of symptoms.
  19. Pogue

    Pogue Titanium Member

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    May 13, 2012
    Male from earth
    Any time I've smoked weed while withdrawing from heroin, it did little but made me more aware of my sickness and caused me to think more about the mess my life was in. It may work for some as regards to anxiousness, but for me it's a definate no-no. Don't get me wrong, I love a good smoke of weed, but definately not while withdrawing from heroin. Use at your own peril.
  20. Black Transit Blues

    Black Transit Blues Silver Member

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    Jan 22, 2012
    Male from Australia
    I really couldn't think of many things worse than smoking weed while dopesick, room 101 territory for me, but I am one of those people who sadly just can't tolerate THC..