Measuring RC’s

Discussion in 'Research Chemicals' started by nicholson_tyler, Oct 21, 2004.

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  1. nicholson_tyler

    nicholson_tyler Newbie

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    I just figured i would share a few ways i've eitehr come accross or came up with to measure RC's without the use of a scale. This is for those of you that are DYING to try them, but don't have a scale and don't want to litteraly die. Hopefully it helps a few people out, and perhaps atleast gives you a better idea of how much your taking than "eyeballing" it would..

    Method 1:
    This is the method i use all the time now. I came up with it either by taking some of the known methods and adding/changing it a little.. Either that or subliminaly was taught it from the interent without knowing..

    Materials:
    1. Obtain a known amount of the chemical (I.e. if you orgered 500mg, when you recieve it, you know you have about 500mg, therefore no scale required..)
    2. Get a bottle with a screw lid (i used a washed out Deslymn Cough syrup bottle).
    3. Obtain an eye dropper that measures in .25ml increments and a liquid syring if you want to make the process easier (Found this at walmart in the baby food isle for about a $1dollar canadian each, therefore for you american guys, that is about 1/4th of a penny.. just take some wire snipes and cut off 1/4th of a penny to pay for it..)
    4. Water OR 99% Alcohol.
    5. Empty Gel caps (i got 500 Single "O" gel caps from a herbal shop for a little over 10 dollars.. Again for you americans, that is about 5 cents)
    6. Glass panel (ie. from a picture frame, or a mirror, it doesnt matter.)
    7. Razor Blade

    Intructions:
    Using Water...
    1. Disolve the known amount of the Research Chemical chemical into a known amount of water. (I disolved 2 grams into 50mL of bottled water..I used the syringe to get 50mL of water into the Deslymn bottle, then dumped in the 2 grams and shook gently until it was visibly disolved. You dont have to use 2 grams, or 50mL, but i think you get the idea of what im doing.)
    2. If you plan to dose right away, take the eye dropper and take some of the mixture and drop into the gelcap, usualy only .25ml of liquid will fit.. then swallow quickly for they disolve..(for me it was .25mL in each capsule making it about a 10mg dose.. 2000mg/50mL = x/ .25mL therefore x = 10mg) If you want to store these (as i usualy do), instead of putting the drop into the gel cap, drop it onto your glass panel or mirror.. Wait an hour or so, until the water evaporates leaving the crystalized residue. Take a razor blade, and now scrape the residue into a pile, then put this DRIED crystal residue into the gelcap. If it is nice and dry these should store for a very long time. Now you know every pill should have about 10mg give or take (if you put 2 gram into 50mL). Remember when using the eyedropper to accuratly measure it , because over .25ml could add 2mg or more depending on how bad you measured.

    Using Alcohol...
    Do all the "Using Water" steps, but instead use alcohol. There is no need to evaporate it, because FROM WHAT I HEAR, alcohol does not disolve gelcaps (I DO NOT KNOW THIS FOR SURE, i never attempted to use alcohol). Just put the drop of the alcoholic mixture into the gelcap, and it should be fine.. I would assume these wouldn't store as long as they would if they were dried using the water method. If you want to get creative add some food coloring so you know what RC's are in which pill based on the color (color code them).

    Method 2: Will be posted in a few seconds.
     
    1. 3/5,
      Good idea posting on weighing without a scale even if it is bit dangrous
      Aug 27, 2006
  2. nicholson_tyler

    nicholson_tyler Newbie

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    (PS: you could also disolve the mixture onto paper and then have blotters, but they would likely taste like SHIT)

    Method 2: I have never used this method, and it is not mine, so i can't take any credit, but i will post anyway..

    "1) Weigh out 200mg of whatever substance you want to divide into individual doses
    2) Dissolve the 200mg of substance in a minimum of 10ml of deionised water or isopropyl alcohol (max volume of solvent being about 25ml)
    3) Cut out a piece of blotting paper with dimensions of 10cm by 10cm and place it on a support of non-absorbent material, that provides minimum contact with the paper (see my method of support below)
    4) Add solution of Research Chemical in water/alcohol drop by drop to the paper until it is evenly damp (it becomes translucent). Make sure that paper is flat and even to prevent any liquid from collecting in any one area. DO NOT keep adding liquid until it is saturated, as this will produce an uneven distribution.
    5) Place in a gentle stream of air (e.g. air conditioning fan set at lowest level) until paper is dry (ceases to be translucent)
    6) Repeat steps 4) and 5) until all of solution has been added to paper
    7) Finally, add enough solvent to make paper fully damp, and then allow to dry slowly, WITHOUT the use of fan etc. This last step helps dissipate any “hot spot” that may have formed during evaporation of solvent from drug solution
    8) All that now needs doing is to mark out the dry blotting paper in 1x1cm using a pencil. Each 1x1cm will contain 2mg of the substance required. It also allows for dry, airtight storage, thus extending “shelf life” of tryptamine derivative that are sensitive to degradation when stored in solution.


    [​IMG]


    I have successfully used the above method for 2C-E, 2C-T-21, 5-methoxyAMT and 4-hydroxyDiPT (which degrades incredibly rapidly in solution). I have found that 2mg/square cm results in a material where no drug forms on the surface of the paper (and as such could be removed by handling, therefore altering the dose), but that 2mg is effectively the upper limit. It may seem like a pain having to eat a piece of blotting paper 2cm x 3cm to get a reasonable (12mg) dose of 2C-E, but if done correctly, it means that you can control the dose to an accuracy of sub mg levels, which is especially important for a compound such as 5-methoxyAMT, and can be easily transported if you want to dose somewhere other than where it is stored (or you don’t want to be wandering around with a syringe in your pocket for measuring out liquid). The method also works for 5-methoxyDMT, as you can also easily smoke small pieces of shredded paper (and considering the taste of 5-methoxyDMT smoke, a bit of smoke from burning paper is the least of your worries!). Other than that, the only other issues are in making sure that the paper does not get damp again (can produce uneven drug distribution), and that it is labelled correctly."

    Method 3: Coming very soon. (sorry for the delays inbetween methods, computer keeps crashing and working on an assignment for class at the same time)
     
  3. nicholson_tyler

    nicholson_tyler Newbie

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    Hmm, i seem to have misplaced the rest of my methods and am to busy with an assignment to be able to think of it off hand.. When i find the rest i will post them.. I do have one NOT to use though, (everyone should know not to use this by now, but still.. ) Do not use the graph method.. It is so inacurate, you will NEVER be able to eyeball it, so dont try.. I do know some pro's who can, but then again , these people have been doing the chemicals so long it realy doesnt matter to them if they get 40mg instead of 10mg.. If your new and have never eyeballed, DONT. Also, the water method is much more acurate then using the deering.. The deering says it meausres to .01 gram, but in reality if you have 14mg it would tell you that you have 10, and if you have 16, it would tell you that you have 20.. It is not very safe, and if you ar going to spend 30 bux, why not save 28 and just use the water method.. I have tried many a method(alot that i wont post so no one kills themselves) and i have foudn the water method to be my favorite/most acurate..

    ALSO when using the water method, store it in the fridge, and if it has been siting for a while and you want to make more pills, gently shake it first so the chemical doesnt settle at the bottem and give you a weaker dose...

    Anyone else that has other methods go ahead and post them, i have probably used them and know of them, but dont have time or ambition to post more right now, this assigment is too important.
     
  4. blue jammer

    blue jammer Silver Member

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    Fair play to you for posting all that.

    I wouldn't have the patience to go through all that, and would recommend buying digital scales (you can't go wrong with those!)

    Tanita do some excellent scales - model '1210' [​IMG]
     
  5. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    Thanks this is helpful! But with the water disolving, what I understand is that you really need to mix it well and should be disolved two times. For example: disolve in 25 ml first, which you disolve in the additional 25 ml. I do not know why, but this is what has been advised to me. Can anybody explane?
     
  6. Kemikaru_Tenshu

    Kemikaru_Tenshu Platinum Member

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    nicholson_tyler- Thanks for posting those methods. I have used similar techniques on occasion for RC's and they work well. A similar method is also used in the lab to produce evenly distributed solutions of more than one chemical, which can then be evaporated to yield an even mixture of solids.

    The necessity Alfa brought up is true when dissolving a chemical of unknown solubility, as it is important to make sure that all of the chemical in question is dissolved in the solution and is not simply suspended. This is accomplished by first dissolving the chemical in a quantity of solvent, waiting for excess to settle, and then adding an additional quantity of solvent in the same manner until the entire quantity of solid remains in solution. This is only necessary if one of two conditions are true; either you need a solution which is saturated (this is handy when you need to evaporate the solvent as a second step), or you do not know the solubility of the chemical in question and would like to establish it. Most of the chemicals in question have known solubilities, and therefore this necessity can be foregone by doing a little bit of research.

    On a side note it IS true that when you are attempting to extract a chemical 3 portions of solvent (say 25mL each) extract better than 1 portion of solvent of equal total volume (in this case 75mL). The reasons for this are only really explainable mathematically, and for those who have not taken a course in Physical Chemistry the calculations are not too practical.

    Your advice about gently shaking a solution which has been in the fridge falls under the condition of a suspension, as if you have dissolved a chemical in a solvent to the point of saturation (or near it for that matter) at room temperature, then cool it, the solubility of the chemical drops with the drop in temperature (this is not true with gasses, but that is not the question here. Just a good fact to know). The result is that the chemical has fallen out of solution and has collected on the bottom. Shaking the solution simply suspends the free solid in the solution, until the temperature has risen back to temperature at which the solution was first created the distribution is not even.



    ~KT
     
  7. thcannibislover

    thcannibislover Newbie

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    man Ive been wanting to order some RC's my self but I dont know who to trust ever since that whole raiding shit, cant wait to be gold.
     
  8. nicholson_tyler

    nicholson_tyler Newbie

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    Well, mine seemed to disolved what i believe was completely.. But than again im not chemist.. atleast not yet.. i only said gently shake just to make sure for those people..
     
  9. Lynchx

    Lynchx Newbie

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    thank god I got great digi scale that goes down to 2mg!
     
  10. Triple7

    Triple7 Gold Member

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    Alpha.. to explain that would be quite complicated.. it is a matter of
    probability. I will try to figure out a simple explaining example while
    I write here... you have give us a math quiz.. do we win a toaster?? [​IMG] (at least I win credits for being geek.. hehe)



    Here is an example:



    Assume we are dealing with a few (4) red marbles and a lot of (996)
    blue marbles that we mix together and then line up. Assume we mixed
    well and that the chance to get the first marbles to be red is
    (4/1000)*(3/999)*(2/998)*(1/997)



    Then if we instead mixed with the half amount of blue marbles.. then
    the chance to get first marbles red is (4/502)*(3/501)*(2/500)*(1/499)



    In this example, you can see it is about 16 times more probable to get
    the marbles "undissolved" when you use the half amount of "water"
    (=blue marbles). Now if you mix again with the remaining blue marbles,
    the chance that the red stays where they are are quite less than 1/16.
    (It all dependins on how good you mix.. but let say you mix 'OK').



    So.. probably some even better method to mix, is to do in in several parts.. or to add water continuoulsy while mixing.



    Isn't there that little little magnet chemists use to blen their
    solutions while slowly putting water (or something else) into it?? This
    must be the same reason. A good diffusion.
     
  11. noeticbuzz

    noeticbuzz Newbie

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    Thanks for the info, very valuable
     
  12. Ranke

    Ranke Palladium Member

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    Yes Triple7 it's called a stir bar. It looks like a large white pill. You put it in the solvent and place the vessel holding the solvent onto something that looks like a hot plate (and often is) you can then set the speed at which the bar spins. It's a huge help in chem labs.
     
  13. radiometer

    radiometer bananadine addict Platinum Member & Advisor

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    If one does not have a scale to measure the exact amount they are starting with, there is no way for them to know if their measurement will be accurate in any way, regardless of how carefully they follow your instructions. I think anyone who is smart enough to follow this post is smart enough to figure out how to come up with $100-200 for a scale.

    This is the underlying problem. When you receive it, you do NOT KNOW how much you have. I have ordered 500mg of a product from a reliable supplier in the past, but received 1g! There are many examples of this occuring, on this and other forums. Imagine if the product SWIM ordered had been, say, DOI, and SWIM followed your instructions and ended up taking double the normal dose. WHOOPS! Another DOI-related emergency room report - just what we need!

    I would like to say, your method sounds fantastic for anyone who owns a scale with which to measure their initial starting amount. But IMO it is simply irresponsible to suggest that there is any "safe" way to measure drugs without a scale.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2006
  14. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    Listen to Radiometer!

    Due to the inherent risk associated with ASSUMING you have, say, 500mg - and the invitation of idiocy and arguments regarding not needing to weigh things - this thread is hereby CLOSED.
     
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