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Meth and energy

Discussion in 'Methamphetamine' started by sknkv2, Jan 25, 2008.

  1. sknkv2

    sknkv2 Silver Member

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    Is the energy meth (and most amps for that matter) gives you real, or is it juts blocking some sort of fatigue sensor (whatever that may be)?
     
  2. Paracelsus

    Paracelsus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Define "real" :)
    You never get something for nothing, not even with caffeine and such. Eventually the body has to recover.
     
  3. sknkv2

    sknkv2 Silver Member

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    Hmm, as in, you aren't just feeling energetic. Like when you eat fruits or something sugary it gives you real energy (as in kj/calories) which you can then burn. So basically, with meth, it's actually giving you some sort of energy to expend or you just don't realise you're tired?
     
  4. Paracelsus

    Paracelsus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    In that sense, it's the latter.
     
  5. sknkv2

    sknkv2 Silver Member

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    So is it bad for you to work out while on amps, because you are tiring your body too much? Or is this good because you are exerting your muscles to their full capabilites? I know I know, don't reccomend this, heart rate is already raised blah blah but yeh.. Just wondering.
     
  6. Pondlife

    Pondlife Platinum Member & Advisor

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    I read an article in New Scientist a year or so ago which said that the human brain will normally not allow a person to deplete their true energy levels anywhere near zero. It always leaves a sizeable reserve. When a person gets close to the reserve level, they will feel totally exhausted and will not be able to carry on even with conscious effort to do so.

    Only if a lion comes around the corner, or the hut catches alight or some other life threatening thing happens will the brain allow access to this energy reserve. It's easy to see the evolutionary benefits of this energy management strategy.

    I believe that amphetamines allow a person to tap into this normally unusable reserve. I'm not sure if it's damaging to do so, but I would guess that it would not be a good idea to do it too often.
     
  7. sknkv2

    sknkv2 Silver Member

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    So, uhh, does anyone have any scientific back up to back up their claims? Just saying because you both say different things and I'm just wondering which is right. If it's that you can't feel you're tired, what is the scientific explanation for this? If it's that you can tap into extra energy reserves, how is it that this is done?
     
  8. Pondlife

    Pondlife Platinum Member & Advisor

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    I think that we are both saying the same thing. It's that the normal feeling of fatigue is in the brain, not the muscles.

    I found the New Scientist article I remembered. It was in the March 20th 2004 edition. Here's the web link, but you will only be able to read the first part unless you have a subscription:

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18124395.400-running-on-empty.html

    Here's another web page which discusses this: http://www.inkstain.net/fleck/?p=468

    I don't have any scientific evidence that this is related to the way in which amphetamine use "gives you more energy", but I suspect that it is.
     
  9. sweetsweetmary

    sweetsweetmary Titanium Member

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    Methamphetamine works by stimulating your body into producing Dopamine (A neurotransmitter which provides pleasurable/rewarding sensations. A "neurotransmitter" is a chemical which is used to convey certain messages between your brain's neurons) and Norepinephrine (Also known as Noradrenaline. This is responsible for most of the effects, such as energy, alertness, increased heart rate, and many more). Also, the Methamphetamine inhibits your body from reabsorbing these chemicals immediately (the reason normal happiness/pleasure and adrenal response is over extremely quickly), so the effects last much longer than would be normally possible, as well. There is more to be said on the subject, but this is adequate knowledge for now.

    This is just an article. So pretty much it stops your brain from sending the signals that you are tired by producing Norepinephrine and not allowing the uptake of dopamine.
     
  10. sknkv2

    sknkv2 Silver Member

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    Since you can't feel the fatigue that your brain would normally tell you you are experiencing, does that mean it is possible to overwork your body whilst on it to a point where it is detrimental to health?

    Normally I'd say pushing your body to it's physical limits would make it stronger, but I'm thinking the fatigue you feel would be there for a reason, so that you don't exert yourself to that extent?
     
  11. Feelingood

    Feelingood

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    Look at those pics of Meth Abusers the DEA throws everywhere, although these are EXTREME cases, staying up weeks and not eating much if anything at all. Energy depletion WAY past what your body could naturally take and/or constant energy depletion would be detrimental to your health. But in the context of a workout? As long as you can tell when your muscles are done and not going into the muscle breakdown(besides normal) or injuring areas you could do it. But i think telling when your muscles are significantly fatigued and not causing severe injury could be hard to do. Besides, to much of a workout actually will have negative effects on muscle gain.
     
  12. manda

    manda

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    It speeds up your metabolism -- your brain is firing faster than normal. It speeds up your heart rate, respiration, pulse -- all of those body functions quicken, which make it impossible to sleep. The "not eating" and the "not sleeping" are the side effects of methamphetamine use that tends to cause the most damage the soonest.
    (So says web MD- who the fuck do those people think they are, anyway? Doctors?) HA HA Total joke.
    I did not write the following, I found it on-line. I have read it, and although it's annoying-sounding, especially the first paragraph, it's 4 real.
    How fun would your life be if you were constantly bombarded by feelings of guilt and depression that trailed you every day like a shadow until the day you die? Methamphetamine users have this shadow and don’t realize it.

    To understand how a person feels pleasure and pain we need to understand the way neurotransmitters work. When a person drinks a cup of coffee, ingests a sleeping pill, or does a drug like meth, that person's neurotransmitter levels can be affected. Neurotransmitters are essentially the brain’s chemical messengers that work together to perform many different tasks. The neurotransmitter systems that we will be focusing on are dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, and serotonin. These transmitters are all affected by meth and can suffer long-lasting damage even after just one trial with this dangerous drug.


    Methamphetamine’s chemical structure closely resembles these neurotransmitters. Meth affects these neurotransmitters either by increasing chemical release, or by stopping the metabolism (breakdown) and re-uptake of these neurochemicals. Meth can also bind to the nerve receptors and confuse the brain by mimicking certain neurotransmitters. This chain of events creates a dangerous chemical imbalance within the brain, resulting in necrosis (nerve cell death) and nerve cell structural change. The brain has different safety mechanisms to protect against imbalances of neurochemicals, but meth shuts down these safety mechanisms. And shutting down these safety mechanisms can ultimately result in nerve cell death. The dopamine system is a good place to examine the ways that meth alters a person’s mind.

    Dopamine System
    Dopamine (DA) is the neurotransmitter that plays a part in controlling movement, thought processes, emotions, and the pleasure centers of the brain. When a person physically works out or accomplishes a difficult task, the brain releases excess dopamine into certain areas of the brain. Any release of dopamine induces a sense of euphoria and well being. When a person takes meth, a chain of events occurs at the dopamine synapses.


    When meth stimulates these transmitters to excessively release dopamine into many different areas of the brain, the safety mechanism would normally react by reabsorbing and transporting the excess chemicals back into the synaptic vessels, but meth blocks dopamine re-uptake, and a gradual chemical buildup occurs.

    This chemical buildup has many different effects on a person's behavior. For the meth user the chemical buildup resembles a dangerous rollercoaster ride. As dopamine levels rise in the brain, so do the feelings of euphoria. This initial buildup is like the start of the rollercoaster. When the drug finally wears off, and the dopamine levels gradually decrease, the meth user plunges to the bottom of this ride losing all the feelings of euphoria and well being. These euphoric feelings will not return until the dopamine system is once again stimulated.

    Dopamine is responsible for reinforcement behaviors. Reinforcement is a psychological term that refers to a stimulus that strengthens or weakens the behavior that produced it. For example you might train your dog to do tricks by reinforcing the desired behavior with a stimulus of food. Meth short-circuits dopamine levels, directly influencing reinforcement behaviors, and actually induces drug-seeking behaviors. For the meth user, the euphoria is the stimulus that induces the drug-seeking behavior.

    Studies have shown that meth overdoses are almost indistinguishable from those behaviors exhibited by a Type I schizophrenic. Type I schizophrenic behavior includes psychotic episodes, delusions, hallucinations, hearing voices, and extreme paranoia. The imbalance of dopamine levels causes this schizophrenic-like behavior that wears off within a couple days after use has ended.

    This overload of dopamine in the brain can even lead to further problems. Meth is toxic to dopamine synapses and their associated nerve cells in the brain. Long-term abuse of meth causes dopamine nerve axons to eventually wither and die. When these synaptic nerve endings die, they are gone for good. The abuser's emotions, pains, and pleasures will be permanently and irreversibly altered. The meth user's world becomes one notch grayer, and events seem one notch duller.

    Norepinephrine System
    Norepinephrine (NE) is a neurotransmitter that plays a part in controlling alertness, rest cycles, attention, and memory. So if you are reading this article, and are having trouble concentrating, it could be because your brain is currently not producing enough norepinephrine. Going to get some coffee would help you to raise these levels, allowing concentration to return.

    Norepinephrine is also called noradrenaline. Noradrenaline is the main chemical used by the body for the synthesis of the hormone adrenaline. This neurotransmitter has been studied in depth by scientists, and plays a key role in many complex brain functions.

    From the previous explanation of how meth affects dopamine chemicals at the synapse, one can easily understand the detrimental influence of meth on the norepinephrine system. As seen with the dopamine system, the drug meth can influence norepinephrine transmitters by blocking the re-uptake mechanism. However, the main difference between the dopamine and norepinephrine systems is that meth does not stimulate excess chemical release at the norepinephrine synapses.

    Another difference between the dopamine and norepinephrine systems is that meth is not neurotoxic to the norepinephrine system synapses and receptors. Meth can stimulate increases in the growth of the norepinephrine nerve. This growth does not mean that the brain becomes more efficient at administering norepinephrine chemicals to the different areas of the brain as a result of this cancerous expansion. This growth could be partially responsible for the short-circuiting of the brain, and directly responsible for the chemical imbalance that is associated with meth usage.

    Epinephrine System
    Adrenaline is a hormone that we are all familiar with. When you encounter an exciting or intense situation, stores of adrenaline are released into the blood stream and a rush instantaneously occurs. For example, when you are about to run a race at a track meet, you can feel the nervous energy as the adrenaline is released. A fact that is not readily apparent is that adrenaline also plays a minor role in our brain as a neurotransmitter.

    The scientific term for this hormone/neurotransmitter is epinephrine (E). Epinephrine’s importance as a chemical messenger becomes evident when a drug like meth declares a territorial war in the synaptical gap (the space in between the nerve transmitter and nerve receptor).

    Meth influences epinephrine transmitters by blocking the re-uptake mechanism. As seen with dopamine and norepinephrine, a blocked re-uptake mechanism results in excess chemicals floating in the synaptical gap. The meth user's physical and mental overexertion is hardly noticeable as the brain's receptors hungrily absorb the extra chemicals. This excess of epinephrine surging to different areas of the brain is partially responsible for the increased energy and rush that the meth user feels.

    Meth users lose their appetite as a direct result of having excess epinephrine chemicals in circulation. The user loses weight as their body feeds off the empty energy of this continual adrenaline rush while they are not even thinking about taking the time to eat. Meth is a drug that lab rats will take instead of eating food, and they will die of starvation when food is right under their nose.

    Epinephrine also plays a role in the crash that is associated with meth use. The crash is more noticeable in meth abusers who have used the drug for many days in a row, and their adrenaline stores are thoroughly depleted. But this depletion also happens with first time and recreational users.

    The process of epinephrine depletion in a meth user is similar to the process of a car whose acceleration pedal is superglued to the floor. The meth user’s mind and body are working at a high speed, just like the engine of that car would run at high speed. The meth user’s epinephrine system is wasting stores of epinephrine, just like the superglued accelerator is recklessly burning stores of gas. Eventually the user depletes his epinephrine supply because he hasn’t rested, just like the car would eventually stop because its tank is empty. With epinephrine store depletion, the crash is the resulting complication, and the user’s body has to rest until adrenaline stores are replenished.

    Serotonin System
    Serotonin (5-HT) is the last of the neurotransmitters that we will be studying. Serotonin plays an important role in many behaviors including sleep, appetite, memory, sexual behavior, and mood. The chemical structure of serotonin closely resembles that of many hallucinogens. A hallucinogen like LSD can bind onto serotonin receptors, mimicking the actual neurotransmitter, resulting in unnatural stimulation in different areas of the brain. The actual serotonin neurotransmitter is structurally different than the other synaptic messengers of the brain, and meth affects this system in different ways.

    One way meth use affects the serotonin systems is by reducing the levels of chemical serotonin in the brain. This reduction can produce radical mood changes in people and in animals. When a person has a deficiency in brain serotonin levels, they are more likely to exhibit violent behavior, anxiety, depression, impulsiveness, and could have a propensity towards drug and alcohol abuse. When a person has higher levels of serotonin in the brain, they are less aggressive, mellow, and happier.

    With the introduction of the drug meth, brain serotonin levels slowly diminish. This reduction in serotonin levels is a result of meth blocking the synthesis and release of chemical serotonin from the synapse. The serotonin system becomes restricted, and the chances of violent behavior and depression increase as the effects of the drug start to wear off. The person's need to keep taking meth far outweighs any moral and financial obligation. The user may commit crimes for drug money, may abandon their family, or may stop paying rent or house payments in order to keep taking meth.

    An irreversible aspect of meth use is that it does kill certain neurotransmitter synapses, and this is the case with serotonin synapses. Even low level meth use kills serotonin axons. What does this mean for the meth users? For the rest of their lives they are going to be lacking the ability to produce adequate amounts of serotonin. Feelings of depression and guilt could be theirs till they die. The meth user is going to be more inclined towards drug and alcohol abuse. Maybe abuse will be the least of the meth user’s problems.

    The complexity of the ways meth affects neurotransmitters is far beyond the scope of my article. However, there are some facts that are perfectly clear. Meth kills dopamine and serotonin neurotransmitter cells. This is an irreversible consequence since these nerve cells do not grow back with time. Meth short-circuits the user’s brain, is highly addictive, and many of the abuser’s joys in life will slowly vanish as these nerve cells wither and die.

    OK, it's me again-The only advice I can give to someone already hooked who has no intention of quitting is don't do it all the time, and don't stay up more than 3 or 4 days, and eat- OR GET HELP! Many links available in recovery forums. Alfa can be trusted if you really want to quit and don't know how. He won't judge you as a pussy, he'll most likely hook you up w/good info and a way to find help.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2008
  13. djSIM

    djSIM Newbie

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    SWIM definitely agrees. Anyone who's had a 3 fatigue from a weekend awake on meth will know this to be true
     
  14. sknkv2

    sknkv2 Silver Member

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    Okay, so SWIM found lots of sources that all agreed that amps and meth give access to energy reserves that are normally not accesible (as has been said in the thread), so SWIM's next question is:

    How do these drugs do this? By what mechanisms do they allow you to access your energy reserves? Are these reserves only accesible when a certain amount of adrenaline is present in your system or something similar, or is SWIM thinking along the wrong lines?
     
  15. justlookingthanks

    justlookingthanks Silver Member

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    swim heard and somewhat believes that after a given point (amount done, amount of time with no sleep etc etc) that your muscles start to pay the price (break down, some kinda idea like that) and has exprienced that type of thing (maybe it was all in my dream thou)

    sorry, swim has been dreaming a few days so maybe not worded the way the thought is actually in swim mind


    also more on point, sometimes swim does a decent amount and get loads of energy, and a lot of times swim gets a super body high, both desired by swim, but is there any reason that might happen?
     
  16. ShaGoDNe

    ShaGoDNe Newbie

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    SWIM heard that meth tells your brain it is in danger, that it is shocked, hence accessing the particular nervous system, and subsequent chemical chain reaction...
    The effects are fairly similar to someone who is in a life threatening situation, so of course you access reserves reserved for reserving... Hence the reserved natural chemical functioning of the system when the reserve reaches a reservable level - and crash
     
  17. sknkv2

    sknkv2 Silver Member

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    Is this due to the adrenaline meth causes to be released? If not, how does it "tell you brain" it's in danger, does the brain just interpret the excessive amounts of neurotransmitters as a sign it's in danger?

    Also, where is this reserve energy stored? Is it just fat?
     
  18. Paracelsus

    Paracelsus Platinum Member & Advisor

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  19. sknkv2

    sknkv2 Silver Member

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    So here's what I've gathered: Amphetamines give access to energy reserves that are not usually accessible (unless in a situation where you have to run for your life/well being) by putting the body into constant fight or flight mode - a result of increased noradrenergic activity caused by the compound.

    So, assuming all that is correct one more question for now: Where is the reserve energy stored?

    Thanks.
     
  20. Paracelsus

    Paracelsus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    There is no "energy reserve" - the stress response activates several features that allow the body to increase muscular strength, endurance, etc. The energy that is used is the same (fat and sugars) as usual.