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Methadone and exercise

Discussion in 'Opiate addiction' started by baron samedi, Mar 7, 2009.

  1. baron samedi

    baron samedi

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    Is there any truth in the theory that doing a lot of exercise, resulting in a lot of sweating, can lower the levels of methadone in ones body? SWIM would have thought that exercise is a good thing under almost any circumstances, but has been told that sweating a lot while on methadone, gets it out of the body faster. Can any SWIY confirm this as accurate information?
     
  2. Electrolingus

    Electrolingus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    If one regularly exercises while on methadone maintenance, one would think that an excellerated metabolism would have more of an effect with the dose holding then sweating would. If SWIY finds that the dose is not holding as long as it did prior to regular exercise than your prescriber should be notified and the dosage should be modified. Some things that will interfere with your dose and its ability to hold is Phenobarbital, Tegretol (Carbimazipine), and Talwin. These drugs should be avoided while on methadone. I hope this was beneficial.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2009
  3. baron samedi

    baron samedi

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    Does SWIY know if atypical anti-psychotics(specifically Olanzapine/Zyprexa) would have any effect on methadone holding?
     
  4. Electrolingus

    Electrolingus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Methadone is a central nervous system (CNS) depressant. One should always use caution when combining any CNS depressant with Zyprexa because it may amplify this effect. One never knows how they will react to certain drug combinations. SWIM recommends that if SWIY chooses to stay on methadone maintenance, that he sees a psychiatrist who is well versed in addictionology. Full disclosure of medications between prescribing physicians is a must. Methadone can be a true life saver for some people. SWIM truly wishes you all the best. As far as SWIM knows, Zyprexa should not effect methadones ability to hold as normal.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
  5. baron samedi

    baron samedi

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    Getting off the topic of Methadone and exercise now, but SWIM's reasoning with the Zyprexa is that it has blocked/nullified much of the effects of drugs like cocaine, ecstasy, mushrooms, cannabis etc, so it would have the same effects on opiates/opioids, particularly in terms of nullifying any euphoria. This theory may be wrong however as opiates work very differently to the drugs mentioned above. He is most concerned about how the combo of Zyprexa/Methadone works mentally for SWIM.
    Getting back onto exercise, he was told by someone that regular exercise would make methadone exit the body more quickly, therefore, maybe meaning that a higher dose would be needed. Whether there is any science behind this theory SWIM doesn't know.
     
  6. Electrolingus

    Electrolingus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    My hamster will answer this without researching it, but the hamster feels he knows enough about pharmacology and drug interactions to provide a correct answer. First off, Zyprexa is a sedative. The effects of stimulants such as cocaine will most likely be decreased because of this. Second, SSRI's such as Prozac, will interfere with MDMA's ability to be absorbed in serotonin receptors in the brain. Perhaps Zyprexa has this effect also. As far as psilocybin and THC, I'm not quite sure. Zyprexa is classified as a anti-psychotic/neuroleptic/sedative hypnotic, newer than, but similar to Thorazine and Melarill. The effects of these anti-psychotics has a lot to do with ones brain chemistry. The hamster can't emphasize this enough, see a psychiatrist who is well versed in addiction and pharmacology. Your program should be able to help you in this department. Only you know how you feel. If the combination of drugs SWIY is taking is working well, then stay with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! I truly hope all works out well for you. Disclaimer: The hamster is not a licenced physician. All statement made by the hamster should be discussed with SWIY's medication prescriber. The hamster only wishes to help and inform. :vibes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
  7. baron samedi

    baron samedi

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    SWIM only wishes things were organised well enough in SWIM's mental health care, to be able to speak properly with a specialist in such matters. From what SWIM has been told, sedation will be increased by Zyprexa. He has never really found an answer as to whether or not it would decrease any of the more "pleasurable" effects of methadone. He understands that people are not prescribed methadone to gain pleasure from it, but SWIM has such a negative view of Zyprexa/Olanzapine he can't help but wonder.
     
  8. Electrolingus

    Electrolingus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    SWIM would think it would work the other way around. The Zyprexa would enhance the euphoric effects of methadone, unless the dose of Zyprexa is so high that it completely overshadows the meth. Anti-psychotics can also cause what is called acathesia (extreme restlessness). If this is the case, then Zyprexa will have an antagonistic effect. Just a question. Is SWIY on Zyprexa? SWIY also stated that he has a 'negative view' of the drug. How so? Zyprexa, Abilify, and Seroquil are now being prescribed for control of symptoms of bi-polar mania in conjunction with an anti-depressant and a 'mood stabilizer'. These drugs were not originally developed and tested for this use. In SWIM's opinion, these A-P/sedative medications are overly prescribed due to aggressive marketing techniques by the manufacture. I'm sorry that SWIY's mental health care is not as it should be. I do not know where SWIY is from. SWIM is only familiar with treatment and the like in the U.S. One would be surprised at the amount of prescribing physicians that don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to multiple drug interactions. This can be deadly at best and quite frustrating at the least.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
  9. baron samedi

    baron samedi

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    Well, SWIM was diagnosed with a psychotic illness some time ago, but has always had the feeling that Zyprexa has done nothing for him. Even when he was suffering from delusional thoughts, it didn't do anything for him, maybe even made things worse. If he is psychotic, then either Zyprexa doesn't work for him or there is a strong depressive element to SWIM's condition, which Zyprexa doesn't help or actually accentuates. He should point out that he has been on anti-depressants for a long time too, and has more faith in these, in terms of making him feel normal and relieving what may be negative symptoms of his condition. SWIM knows that there has always been a psychotic element to his mental health problems, but Zyprexa has just never felt like the answer to him, particularly on its own with no anti-depressant to compliment it.
    It seems we have got somewhat off the original topic of this thread, but SWIM always finds it helpful to talk about the root causes of his substance problems.
     
  10. xxdan123xx

    xxdan123xx

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    INteresting stuff. Anyswim know if heavy sweatingcould get other opiates like heroin out of the body faster.
     
  11. baron samedi

    baron samedi

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    SWIM has a feeling that there is some truth in the notion of heavy sweating excreting methadone from the body faster. As heroin is usually administered in a totally different way, and lasts for less time its hard to say.
     
  12. Benniboi

    Benniboi

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    Does anyone find that exercise when on opiods makes one sweat uncomfortably. Like a nasty cold sort of sweat that makes exercising a problem? Or is it just SWIY has some sort of mental issue with this? any opinions would be greatly appreciated!
     
  13. Electrolingus

    Electrolingus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Is swiy actually exercising while under the influence of opiates? If swiy is physically dependent on opiates, then one would think that any excessive exercise would be 'nasty and sweaty'. If swiy is an occasional opiate user then said should probably just lay back and enjoy instead of exercising. A classic side effect of opiate intoxication in general is sweating. Good Luck.

    Just wanted to add that when swim exercises, his goal IS to sweat. Sweating purifies the body of toxins and makes one feel better in the process. Also, sweating will make true opiates leave the body quicker. Methadone however... swim thinks that one would have to do a fair amount of sweating to cause a noticeable difference in dose stabilization. Everyswiy is different. Metabolism's are different. Adjust accordingly to your experiences and situation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2009
  14. Benniboi

    Benniboi

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    Sorry SWIElectrolingus, should have been more specific with regards to the question- SWIM is on MMT (30ml dropped down from 60) but finds that heavy exercise brings him out in a cold sweat that reminds SWIM of withdrawals and is generally unpleasant, does SWIY think that is maybe more of a mental issue that has developed through opiate use/abuse/withdrawal or possibly something phsysiological? Many thanks
     
  15. Electrolingus

    Electrolingus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    It's all good. Chronic sweating is often associated with methadone. Since SWIY is on a low dose, perhaps exercise is causing ones dose to be metabolized at a quicker rate. SWIM used to not get the 'uncomfortable' sweating until 24+ hours after the last dose. Also SWIM used to just start sweating for no good reason. The thing one would need to ask its self is; does the dose 'hold' return back to normal after exercising? If so, SWIY may just have to get past the unpleasantness of it all. Proper nutrition and the avoidance of stimulants such as caffeine will help dose management. SWIM found that if he ate a small meal 40 minutes after his dose, the effects of the dose were more noticeable and seemed to hold longer. Heart burn medication such as Cimetidine (OTC Tagamet) will boost the dose. Grapefruit juice will cause methadone to be absorbed in the body quicker but not hold as long. Some mood stabilizers such as Tegretol will cause interference in the dose holding.
     
  16. nateup

    nateup

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    OK... my fish is on Methadone Maint treatment and he feels that "YES" the hard exercise and sweating flushes the medication out of his system faster, resulting in withdrawl upon awakening. Dont expect any of the medical professionals that the clinic to attest to this phenominom. He believes this is true simply because they arent going to discourage you from exercising.

    It may even be that after he got used to the exercise it would no longer be a problem and may even be benificial to his treament since his natural endorphines would be more active. Hes never made it far enough to know.

    Maybe start out with some weight training only. This would get the endorphines pumping without speeding up metabolism and flushing AS MUCH. After the body re-activates natural opiates more, then maybe move up to some cardio and other more "metabolizing?" exercises? This has been my fish's plan... he just needs to execute. He's no doctor but all this seems to be a solid hypothesis to me as well.

    nateup added 4 Minutes and 59 Seconds later...

    Are you sure? Actually no you arent because this is definitely not true in the case of my fish. After much personal experimentation, he concluded that the juice does make it kick in a bit more quickly but also lengthens the duration of the peak and the overall effect in staving off withdrawl. He actually does periodic supplimentation with GF juice for the specific purpose of getting another couple hours out of his dosage which seems to metabolize at a much quicker rate than many people. This method works very well for him.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2009
  17. Electrolingus

    Electrolingus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    SWIM can only go by his past experience with methadone (3+ years on MM and 10+ years pharmacology experience). As SWIM previously stated, everySWIY is different and everySWIY metabolize drugs at a different rate. If grapefruit juice works for SWIY, then good for you! :applause: Most of the MM people that SWIM knows try to avoid grapefruit juice. Alcohol will do the same thing. It will make the dose feel stronger at first but not hold as long. For the record: SWIM would never give information that he wasn't "sure" about. SWIM posts a lot in methadone threads because he knows a lot about methadone. SWIM only wishes to properly inform SWIY's about methadone and its pharmacology.:thumbsup:
     
  18. nateup

    nateup

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    concur on the alcohol, same with any substance that works to increase the EFFECTS of the methadone. This is obvious. The clinic said that GFJ actually increases the plasma levels of the methadone... totally different than what is happening with alcohol, benzos, or substances of that nature. Maybe they are wrong... I have yet to find any legit research on the subject. I do know that GFJ does not have a psychoactive effect to come back off of, so it doesn't even make sense that you would come off the methadone when the GFJ "wears off". If you think its the same thing, then I really do question your years of experience.

    I have known many "experienced" users who get so caught up in their all knowing experience that they disregard the possibility that their assurance may be blinding them from what is really going on. Not saying this is necessarily you, but your comment really smells like this mentality that I have witnessed in many.

    If someone has always heard and is sure that something effects them a certain way... than it most likely will.
     
  19. Benniboi

    Benniboi

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    my pet goat has also read that on independent tests conducted on the efficacy of white GFJ regarding potentiation of Methy- i.e studying the pharmacokinetics of this reaction. Scientists observed a mean of 17% increase with regards to peak plasma levels (concentration) and overall half-life. implying that it ups the concentration higher, and for longer. I assumed that because it inhibits an enzyme that metabolizes methy, it may not potentiate the onset of effects, rather up peak levels and duration. does anyone concur?

    benniboi
     
  20. Electrolingus

    Electrolingus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    A therapeutic steady state plasma methadone concentration in the blood should be at 200ng/ml or higher. Grapefruit juice will aid in elevating ones level of plasma methadone but there is no scientific evidence of GFJ actually increasing the EFFECTS of methadone for the long haul. So SWIY's clinic is not 'wrong' in saying this, they just aren't giving SWIY the whole story. One must understand that for every action there is a opposite reaction (get it now, but pay for it later). BUT, EVERYSWIY IS DIFFERENT. If it works for you, then by all means keep doing it. SWIM only deals with the facts and his experiences in conjunction with those facts. This is a site about a scientific study on methadone with GFJ. It shows that terminal half life of methadone was not effected by said juice. http://www.nature.com/clpt/journal/v76/n1/abs/clpt2004460a.html