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Methadone Potentiation

Discussion in 'Methadone' started by mickenator, Dec 20, 2006.

  1. mickenator

    mickenator Titanium Member

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    44 y/o Male from U.K.
    Swim was wondering if anyone knows of a way to increase the effects of methadone or to make it last longer. Can swim just use the grapefruit and tums route, or is it just not possible to do. Any help would be gratefully received.
     
  2. Forthesevenlakes

    Forthesevenlakes Newbie

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    SWIM believes (but has not tried his) that dxm, and presumably grapefruit juice and tums would work as well. he has read reports that dxm works, so he'd assume the other two methods mentioned would work as well. just be very careful about re-dosing on the methadone or taking an initial dose thats too high, since it can take a while to set in.
     
  3. kailey_elise

    kailey_elise Gold Member

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    DXM (dextromethorphan) is very good at increasing the effects of methadone; I've heard this from both chronic pain patients and methadone maintenance therapy. Apparently, one would want to take a relatively "normal" dose of DXM (15-60mg; more isn't always better, though!) anywhere from an hour before methadone dosing right up to at the same time as methadone dosing.

    It's been said that the most effective OTC way to potentiate methadone with DXM is to procure the generic version of Robatussin Cough Gels, squeeze the gel inside into fast-dissolving gelcaps and take them with the methadone. Next best is to use the cough syrup at the same time as the methadone dose; next in line would be to take either the name brand or generic cough gels about an hour before dosing (they take longer to dissolve in your stomach, the Robatussin brand taking longer than generic).

    Sources state that not only does the methadone dose feel stronger, but the "peak" is longer, up to two hours in some people (compared to 10 minutes without the DXM).

    It also seems that having taken the DXM at low doses for a period of time has lowered the methadone tolerance somewhat for at least one person, even if DXM is not taken with the dose; however, this avenue hasn't been explored fully yet.

    Long winded way of saying, some people I know would recommend 30-45mg of DXM to feel more effects from methadone. ;-)

    ~K.Elise

     
  4. t1rex

    t1rex Newbie

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    AW: Methadone Potentiation

    Swim takes Cimetidin or omeprazole, pantoprazole, all stomach medicines that work via inhibiting cyp450 enzym in your liver and of course Potassiumhydrogencarbonate wich lowers your ph in the stomach and prolongs the duration of action of methadone very well. Take it all bevor the metha!
     
  5. merseyloyalist

    merseyloyalist Newbie

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    an other way swim hears to potentiate the effects of methadone good style is to take cyclizine the travel sickness tablets with it
     
  6. BANGINCOLOR

    BANGINCOLOR Newbie

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    First of all, methadone is a VERY misleading drug. The people that die from taking it do so because when they take methadone, they are expecting a result similar to morphine or oxycontin which they won't ever get. So they take more and more until it's bye-bye.....6 feet under time!!

    Why would you want to potentiate something that, really doesn't get SWIY "high" at all??

    Methadone is VERY, VERY dangerous territory. Google "One pill can kill" and methadone in general and I think you will change your mind quite rapidly on the idea of potentiation of methadone. God speed.
     
  7. Forthesevenlakes

    Forthesevenlakes Newbie

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    SWIM begs to differ, he had an experience with methadone a few weeks ago which definitely got him high. For many long-term users of opioids (and probably a fair amount of people with little opioid experience), methadone would probably not provide much of a subjective high, either due to high tolerance, or the different nature of the drug. Some people do manage to get high from it, even at lower doses, hence why they'd want to potentiate it. But SWIM agrees, methadone can be extremely dangerous, and due to the long latency time (at least in SWIM's experience) between taking the drug and experiencing its effect, this only increases the danger. Waiting an hour or so, feeling nothing, and then re-dosing is a quick way to wind up in the ER or dead. SWIM would reccomend that anyone using this drug should start with a low dose, and wait a few hours before passing a judgment on whether it's working for them or not.
     
  8. BANGINCOLOR

    BANGINCOLOR Newbie

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    SWIM found great pain relief using methadone and it is God awful cheap too but, no euphoria. Just kept nodding off all day.
     
  9. baron samedi

    baron samedi Newbie

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    SWIM has just started a similar thread on methadone potentiation. DXM does not sound a great idea to SWIM, given that it causes brain damage.
    Can anyone expand on the stomach medicines/travel sickness pills method which is mentioned earlier in this thread? Do they actually work?
    As an aside, does a meth peak really last for only 10 minutes normally? Given it's such a long-lasting opioid this would surprise SWIM, but maybe the person is talking about it in comparison to a heroin peak or something?
     
  10. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko Newbie

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    From rxlist

    In vitro results suggest that methadone undergoes hepatic N-demethylation by cytochrome P450 enzymes, principally CYP3A4, CYP2B6, CYP2C19 and to a lesser extent by CYP2C9 and CYP2D6. Coadministration of methadone with CYP inducers of these enzymes may result in a more rapid metabolism and potential for decreased effects of methadone, whereas administration with CYP inhibitors may reduce metabolism and potentiate methadone's effects. Although antiretroviral drugs such as efavirenz, nelfinavir, nevirapine, ritonavir, lopinavir+ritonavir combination are known to inhibit CYPs, they are shown to reduce the plasma levels of methadone, possibly due to their CYP induction activity. Therefore, drugs administered concomitantly with methadone should be evaluated for interaction potential; clinicians are advised to evaluate individual response to drug therapy.

    Just something one found the other night when he was researching the same question.
     
  11. baron samedi

    baron samedi Newbie

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    Could anyone give SWIM a rough list of possible CYP inhibitors?
    Would SWIM use several at the same time or just 1 kind?
    Also, could anyone inform SWIM as to what tums actually are? He has heard them mentioned, and assumes they are a stomach med of some type, but is that the brand name or a nickname?
    And if SWIM was to experiment with DXM, how easy would it be for him to acquire? Is it true that it can cause brain damage if used in conjunction with anti-pscychotic medication (olanzapine)?
     
  12. Daytona71

    Daytona71 Newbie

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    Didn't get SWIM any direct info here. SWIM has this given at 90mgs. a day along with 96mgs. of hydromorphone. SWIM knows the hydromorphone is bioavailable at 51% insufflated where an oral dose is 33% bioavailable. Still nothing concrete ion the methadone though?
     
  13. baron samedi

    baron samedi Newbie

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    HTML:
    The following drugs increase the potency of Methadone:
    
    Fluconazole (Diflucan), a synthetic triazole antifungal agent, can raise methadone levels by 30%.
    
    Ketaconazole (Nizoral), indicated for fungal infections.
    
    The antidepressants Amitriptyline (Elavil) and Fluvoxamine (Luvox)
    
    Diazepam (Valium) and similar anti-anxiety drugs like Xanax or Halcion.
    
    Cimetidine (Tagamet), used in the treatment of ulcers and acid reflux heartburn.
    
    Urinary alkalinizers (Bicitra, Polycitra) used to treat gout and kidney stones.
    
    Hydroxyzine (Vistaril), a sedative antihistamine, boosts potency by 50%.
    
    The following drugs decrease the potency of Methadone:
    
    Rifampin
    
    Viramune (Nevirapine)
    
    Carbamazepine (Tegretol) and Phenytoin (Dilantin)
    
    Vitamin C 
    Hi all,
    This is just some info on the topic that SWIM picked up elsewhere. He believes it originated from the now deceased coldwaterworld.com.
    Hope others in SWIM's position find it of help.
    Being a responsible SWIMMER, he should add that it is for informational purposes only, and those seeking to follow any of the tips should be VERY careful and be aware that they may be playing with fire!
    SWIM is going to try the Tamaget and Vistoril methods. Has anyone used either of those for opioid/opiate potentiation in the past? He could do with knowing when he should actually take said drugs, in order for them to work properly with the meth. Any tips?
     
  14. Daytona71

    Daytona71 Newbie

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    THX for the info. The same probably works for SWIM's hydromorphone though the nasal route is about 50% better than oral as SWIM understands potentiating hydromorphone. SWIM is already taking diazepam so no need to do anything with the methadone. Dextroamphetamine potentiation with baking soda seems to work a bit and this is still on subject for the SWIM as this is another medication SWIM uses but has found NO EUPHORIA much to SWIM's dismay. Back in the day one "Black Beauty", 10mgs dextro and 10mgs levo-amp was so strong that SWIM could not believe they ewere legal! LOL Now 50mgs. of straight dextroamps do not provide any of that. SWIM will go to the amp section again.
     
  15. MEKONE

    MEKONE Silver Member

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    From the American Cancer Society(ACS)
    In SWIM's experience Methadone can cause SOME "feelings"especially for a new user that are given a dose higher than what they are usually used to taking.These "Effects"may not be euphoric and like mentioned above,that is how many abusers get into trouble by thinking if they take more it will cause a greater euphoric effect.Methadone builds up in the body and has a very LONG halflife meaning it takes much longer to get out of your systen.In short SWIM does not recomend Methadone for recreational use but one can get GREAT pain relief from it.
     
  16. Daytona71

    Daytona71 Newbie

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    Well then SWIM will leave it as is due to the Diazepam, carisopradol and Ambien that are taken with it. Sounds like it is good DSWIM has a tolerance.
     
  17. MEKONE

    MEKONE Silver Member

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    SWIM has taken(prescribed) Diazapam,Xanax,and Ambien along with methadone with good medicinal redults but as far as using Done recreationaly in SWIM's oppinion it's not worth it.Good Luck!!!
     
  18. YellowViolet

    YellowViolet Newbie

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    I wrote the post "I'm officially screwed" - the doctor yesterday so thoughtfully offered to give me methadone instead of my needed meds. I've never taken it and don't know anything about it ... I decided to take him up on his offer but told him I may change my mind and may not get the prescription filled. After looking it up I don't think I want it.

    Used for pain (moderately severe to severe) I understand it works? Does it make one sleepy, groggy, what? The grogginess and sleepiness is the side effect of my regular meds that I hate - I feel like I waste the days away being tired and sleeping. If I could get pain relief without the groggy feeling I might really like that.
     
  19. MEKONE

    MEKONE Silver Member

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    Like SWIM mentioned earlier,your inital doses of Done MAY make you have that groggy feeling depending on what type/mg of med your used to taking.This does go away once the Done stabilizes in SWIY's body.Done is not like other meds that gives you that "feeling" and then it fades away until you dose again insted it builds up and provides LONG lasting relief for PN patients.

    The only thing that SWIM noticed while they were on it was that after awhile the dose may need to be increased but that wasn't for some time after he started taking it.SWIM's was worried about taking such a high dose of Done so his Dr then switched him to Morphine to trigger a diffrent PN relief effect,which worked for SWIM and he has been on Morph. along with BTM ever since.

    SWIM would advise SWIY (if the Dr. prescribed it) to give it a shot,who knows SWIY might get very good relief from it as many others have.Just remember it might take some time to build up in SWIY's system.Good Luck!!!
     
  20. baron samedi

    baron samedi Newbie

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    To update on SWIM's experiments with methadone potentiation, he has tried Tagamet once with almost no success, and Hydroxyzine a couple of times with very little difference noted.
    However, he has found that taking 10mg Diazapam, just before his Methadone dose, is very effective, whether it's potentiation or synergy. It seems to make the methadone peak last a lot longer, whilst also making it more enjoyable for SWIM. Apparently, diazapam is the 1 benzo which has a special relationship with methadone, although the action is unknown.
    On SWIM's earlier post in this thread, the list of potential potentiators, it mentions that Vitamin C decreases the effects of methadone. This makes SWIM wonder whether GFJ as a potentiator really works or not. Maybe one needs to consume lots of Vit C for this to happen. It also makes SWIM wonder whether it is a good idea to drink fruit juice/smoothies while taking Done. Do people think this is really something to worry about?