Methadone vs. Other Opioids

Discussion in 'Methadone' started by pharmapsyche, Dec 28, 2005.

  1. pharmapsyche

    pharmapsyche AKA Miss Methylene Titanium Member

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    Methadone. What exactly is it? I have done it on 20 different occasions and still doesn't understand it. I know it's a synthetic opioid with a qualitative action similar to that of morphine. I know it has a lengthy half-life. But I don't know what to expect from it. I still don't, even after trying it repeatedly. In fact, each time I've tried it has left me more confused. Let me explain.

    Sometimes, it's a wonderfully blissful feeling. I remember taking 20mg's and writing "this is devine, truly a feeling of utter contentment" in my journal. I also remember taking 20mg's and complaining the whole night of restlessness, rage, itchiness and the complete and total lack of euphoric tranquility. One time, I took 15mg's and rode in my friends car, only to be delt motion sickness like I've never had before. 15mg's was so intense, I puked and poured sweat and moaned and made my friend turn the car around. Another time, 40mg's did nothing but make my head itch and put me in a NASTY, vengeful, angry mood.

    WHAT IS UP WITH METHADONE?! DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT?! :confused:
     
    1. 4/5,
      Interesting question ask.
      Nov 15, 2010
  2. bcStoner420

    bcStoner420 Silver Member

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    Despite other so called disputes between us in another thread im gonna put it behind me and answer this from SWIM's experience.

    Ok, so hes never tried methadone but he has done a variety of other opiates/opioids and notices these same situations, normally the bad case being in the much higher dose range. I do also know that methadone isnt the most euphoric opioid out there, hence why it is used for rehab, this is not to say it has no rec. value though. It is an odd situation and swim can mostly relate to the itchyness and sort of motion sickness part of it, he does get in a bad mood but he thinks its just from nasty side effects.
     
  3. pharmapsyche

    pharmapsyche AKA Miss Methylene Titanium Member

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    Thanks for your imput, and reguarding so-called disputes in another thread, I respect you a whole lot more knowing you're a nice guy. Sorry for losing my head BCStoner!
     
  4. u4ic

    u4ic Silver Member

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    methadone feels great

    I used methadone to get off a nasty little oxy habit I had going. I took 20-30mgs a day for a month or three. In the beginning I loved it. I remember thinking I could live the rest of my life on it. It made me feel just good enough, a very mild sort of euphoria. The thing you have to remember about methadone is the very long half life, about 36 hours I think. You have to keep in mind that every consecutive day you take it it is building up in your system. After a couple months the methadone lost its appeal and I wanted to get high on some other opiates, just not oxy, I hate oxy. Well guess what, you can't get high on other opiates after prolonged methadone use it has a binding affinity that is second to none and it occupies your opiate receptors for a very long time. Not only that but it is the hardest opiate to detox from. Mostly because its withdrawal symptoms last 3-4 times longer than other opiates, we're talking like a month. I've been off the methadone for a couple weeks taking a plethora of other opiates and I still can barely get high. I would totally stay on the methadone indefinately but because my sources could easily dry up I can't commit myself to such a absolutely binding addiction. As much as I like methadone I found it was just way too addictive . I starting using h for the first time after I was hooked on methadone to get off of it.
     
  5. bcStoner420

    bcStoner420 Silver Member

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    ^^ Damn, that sucks. I have heard before from others on this forum that methadone itself if you develop an addiction for it can be harder to get off than H. I was a bit skeptical at first but given its halflife i can see why the withdrawals might make it harder to get off it.
     
  6. circsee1

    circsee1 Newbie

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    U4IC, I am taking around the same amount of methadone per day as you say you were. How bad were the WD's comparable to the oxy....were both the intensity and the duration bad or was only the duration... Did you just stop or were you weaned off the medicine? I have reduced from 60mg down to around 10mg and sometimes misses dosing. However, I have heard, quite often, that methadone is a bitch to get off....so....if it happened with you, at what dosage did things get really hard to deal with? I know even a dose of 60mg isnt that much to begin with but his head is still filled with horror stories.....Oh, and another thing, SWIM talked to his doctor about the possibility of addiction arising from the methadone and the doc said not to worry......hope hes right......
     
  7. mmilam

    mmilam Newbie

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    Methadone. lol, down here we call em wafers or waffles.

    ive taken em before, recently acctually. I can tell you one thing. There not a good drug to take if you plan on mixing.
    A Few weeks ago, i took 8 somas and i started feeling them, but then a lil while later i poped a wafer, and all of a sudden, everything i felt from the somas just was gone. I mean i still fealt a lil ya know.
    Taking wafers with other pain meds is pointless.
    Heres a good analogy..
    Taking wafers and hydrocodone is like taking Imodium AD and a Laxative.

    Also, i know bars and wafers are a deadly combination. Ive had people dye from it. Be very carefull with wafers.
    Another thing. Wafers are a chocking hazard. :crazy I swalled 1 whole one time and it got stuck in my throat. I had the run to the sink and drink out the faucet to wash it down.
     
  8. u4ic

    u4ic Silver Member

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    I can't really say because refused to go through the wd's very long I got the methadones ready before I stopped the oxys I couldn't afford to be laid up for 2 weeks while detoxing from oxys. The transition was flawlessly smooth I fact I liked being on the methadone more than the oxy. Oxys made me lethargic and crash hard a couple hours after snorting a line. I was sniffing 20mg lines up to 8x a day. Now a could sniff a whole 80 and it wouldn't do squat. In the beginning 20mgs of methadone taken in 5mg increments 4x a day would make me feel "good" in a normal sort of way. I would even get a nod (especially while driving, be careful) if I took two doses too close together. After a couple months I just felt kind of bored with the methadone. I should have left well enough alone. I tried getting high after using the dones and it was almost impossible they left me with a huge tolerance to just about every opiate imaginable. I'm getting ready to go back on them. As for the wd's with them I don't even want to know. I've heard you want to ween yourself off them like a mg every few days.
     
  9. deji

    deji Silver Member

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    Each opiate withdrawal you experience, the next withdrawal will be worse. Followed by the post withdrawal. In the world of opiates, the withdrawal isnt much, although it hurts hell, you are left scarred and without opiates. And that is the hard part, to live life without opiates. MUCH more painful than some temporary withdrawal.

    But regarding the withdrawals. Methadone withdrawal is much worse. Its not as intense, but MUCH longer. On day 5 of a heroin withdrawal, you are getting better, on day 5 of methadone, it is just beginning. I read something once that in prisoner camps, when they would get people addicted to opiates, then make them withdrawal and tell them they will get opiates if they talk, there were some people that could handle any withdrawal. But these same people, by day 5 or 6 of methadone withdrawal would be begging for it to end.

    No two people will have the same withdrawal, even if they are coming from the same dose of opiates. It depends on your history. Each withdrawal gets worse, like I mentioned, and how dependant you are on opiates. Someone on 100mg for 5 years, compared to someone on 100mg for 6 months. The withdrawals wont even compare. The guy for 5 years is much more dependent.

    Best way to get off methadone is to slowly come down to 0mg as comfortable as possible, and as slowly as possible. This will eliminate most of the acute withdrawal. There is also the post withdrawal that can last years. I know people that have been off methadone for years, and have not touched an opiate since, and still arent sleeping right.

    Once you are an opiate addict, you are mostly screwed for life from it.
     
  10. zero

    zero Silver Member

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    I would rather kick heroin 50 times than kick Methadone one more time. Fuck that. There is no experience, IMO, that is worse than kicking Methadone.

    Severe opiate addiction leaves a void in ones life that MUST be filled with something the user is passionate about, lest he return over and over to his opiate of choice.

    If it weren't for MUSIC and MOUNTAINS, I probably would have returned to heroin's loving embrace already. It's been 4 years since I've fixed and I still think about it everyday, just not with the longing I once did.
     
  11. u4ic

    u4ic Silver Member

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    Just out of curiosity what dose of methadone did you kick from? Was it cold turkey or gradual?
     
  12. zero

    zero Silver Member

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    I kicked 90mg cold turkey. I've also kicked 100mg gradually and that wasn't too fun either. When I kicked the 90mg I didn't sleep for 29 days. I've kicked heroin a few and always slept or started to feel better nearing the 10th day.
     
  13. BlackCook

    BlackCook Newbie

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    By the way...
    Methadone has a half-time of about 24 hours (it`s said so, but in reality lets say its 18 hours), its antipode, L-Polamidone has a half-time of about 36 hours (in reality about 30 hours).
    Here in germany, methadone is taken most of the time because it is cheaper, but i prefer L-Polymidone because it is more potent.
    You can say that L-Polamidone is twice as potent as Methadone.
    Perhaps you did get L-Polamidone the time you had your bad trip and not normal Methadone...
    By the way: In the first time, methadone/polamidone comes nice, but when you have a turkey from it or try to get rip of if..its just fucked up...
    Normally, with h or morphine, the turkey takes about a week and everything is fine...but with methadone/polamidone it takes weeks and then its not over at all...
    After all i hate it...i think the only way the take it to substitute people is, because it makes profit for the pharma industry and not because its good...
    Codeine is much better for substitution because its not that potent...

    Just wanted to say that...
     
  14. Silver Fox

    Silver Fox Silver Member

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    Methadone vs other opiods

    In reply to Benznerings, yes - methadone is a synthetic opoid that has a half-life of approximately 36hours.

    It takes 3-4 days for methadone to reach a steady state in the body. What this means, is that you don't feel the full effect of methadone on the first day. You need to take the same dose for 3-4 days in a row, to really feel what that dose is about. This is because the methadone is distributed to different body-tissues, ie gets soaked up by different parts of the body, and builds up gradually, so that on day three or four, there is a steady level of methadone in the blood that the opiate receptors in your brain, spinal cord and other body tissues have access to.

    A single dose of methadone takes a good 5-6 days to really wash out of your system.

    The reason that sometimes you might have a good experience of methadone, and at other times not so good, is due to a number of factors:

    1. What other drugs are in your body.
    The onset of action of methadone will be from 30 min onwards, and maximal between the first 2-4 hrs. It will act synergistically with most other recreational drugs in your body, such as benzodiazepines, alcohol, enhancing their effects. It may act less favourably with other drugs that you are taking concurrently, which are lingering in your system.

    2. What is the quality of methadone that you are getting?
    If you are getting a liquid formulation, how do you REALLY know what strength it is? Has it been watered down? Does the supplier get it on a supervised prescription - ie has to swallow it in front of the dispensing pharmacist - and then spit it up into a bottle before selling it to you (no joke!)?

    One of the reasons that Heroin is so addictive, is because it has a rapid onset of action, and then washes out of your system rapidly as well, leaving the body wanting more. This creates a series of highs and lows; starts as a psychological thing, develops into a craving, then can develop into a full-blown physical addiction with prominent withdrawal symptoms.

    Methadone is used in a therapeutic context BECAUSE it has a long half-life. This means that it can be taken once a day, will hold you for a good 24 hrs before you start to withdraw. HOWEVER, as mentioned before, it needs 3-4 days to build up in your body, to hold you in that way.
    It is used in a therapeutic context, ie. as a SUBSTITUTE to Heroin, or other short-acting opiates, in order to stabilise and kick a habit.
    The idea is to 'hold' someone - ie to keep the withdrawals at bay. It is not meant as a feel-good drug. The feel-good effect comes predominantly with short-onset and short-acting opiates.

    When methadone is used regularly at an appropriate dose, with no other opiates used on top, there will be no withdrawals,and consequently no need to go looking for the next hit, no need to go looking fo cash, no need to go looking for a dealer....it buys people time to stablise, re-organise their lives, and to actually get a life, instead of constantly trying to get the monkey off your back with ever-decreasing success.
    Hopefully this is not you, and never will be.
     
    1. 3/5,
      very informative post
      Jan 18, 2006
  15. Silver Fox

    Silver Fox Silver Member

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    More about methadone...

    Benznering - the itchiness - opiates cause a release of histamines in the body - abit like getting a minor hayfever or grass-allergy reaction. Some people get it with methadone, others with dihydrocodeine, others with heroin. It depends on the individual, the drug, the dose, and the batch.

    The variability of pleasurable, or otherwise, experience - in addition to what I mentioned in the last email - is also very dependent on your own tolerance to opiates, as well as when your last hit was, and whether you were withdrawing or not. Again, very dependent on the individual and the cocktail and the situation.

    U4ic - sounds like you developed a tolerance to methadone after a while; this happens when you take any opiates. At certain doses, taken regularly, the methadone has a blockade effect. This means that if you try to use other opiates on top, nothing happens.

    BCStoner + CircSee1 - methadone is not actually more addictive; the shorter-acting opiates tend to be more addictive - such as Heroin; however, it is true that the longer half-life makes it a more drawn-out withdrawal process.

    The least painful way is to reduce from 60mg methadone is to do it SLOWLY - 5mg per month. This means that you feel rough for a few days, then your body adjusts for a few weeks. If you reduce a few mg every few days, you will be constantly in withdrawal.
    Often people will reach a 'sticking-point', often between 40-20mg. Reducing by 2or3mg each time may be easier (every month, is recommended, but every fortnight works for some people). It is possible to reduce to zero in this way quite comfortably.

    As Zero + Deji say, it is a very individual thing, whether withdrawals are severe for you or not. Factors that impact are:
    1. Length of time using opiates, and how these are stored in different tissue compartments of the body
    2. Opiate drug/s of choice - sngle drug / cocktail and mode of use
    3. Other drugs that you are taking
    4. General level of health, fitness, metabolic+physiological type
    5. Level of hydration
    6. Your own mindset.

    It is also true that taking any recreational drugs at all, but especially opiates, really messes with your own neurochemistry. Sleep tends to be a major issue. After using opiates, it takes a long time for your body to start manufacturing endorphines again - the body's natural opiates and feel-good hormones; this impacts upon sleep, mood, motivation, natural biorrhythms.
    Again, as to how quickly your body recovers its natural functions depends upon the above factors. Keep fit +healthy and you will tend to bounce back more quickly.
     
  16. MORPHEUS IV

    MORPHEUS IV Newbie

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    SWIM skipped right down to the bottom of this thread to make a post on this subject out of pure experience. Methadone is the worst possible drug to get off of. I had a friend who was onit for 4 years and up to 90 MG's per day. SWIM watched the entire detox process, which took almost 2 years to complete....that's right, 2 years. The half life is so long that you will experience severe withdrawals for over 6 MONTHS without some kind of help. Even at 5 MG's per day, the withdrawals were impossible to handle for him. PLUS, there are very bad politics involved with Methadone and the clinic. The clinic is devoted to keepinge you on Methadone for LIFE. 90% of Methadone users either stay on it for life or relapse much worse than before......mathmatical statistics are correct. If you get it from a reliable source...the clinic......you are fighting City Hall more than the addiction itself. It is a ball and chain thatthey want you to have forever in order to keep you under control and keep up with your every move. You can't go out of town without permission and you have to go to a guset dose clinic if you haven't been on it for a very long time........a real pain in the butt.

    SWIM's friend would NEVER go through that again.
     
  17. Kernacktur

    Kernacktur Silver Member

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    I have a question on methadone

    what would be the dangers an affects of mixing with ritilin and pot

    swim sniffed 3 10mg methadone tabs and 8 15mg adderal xr's and 4 20mg ritilins over 7 hours

    I'm not really farmiliar with methadone as a recreational drug

    but mixed with the above cocktail what is the danger of this and what are some good pills/drugs to mix for a better high & when should I expect a come down and what should be done to minimize that comedown
     
  18. Lisa J

    Lisa J Silver Member

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    I am due to start a methadone script next week, now knowing that it takes several days to reach a stable level in SWIM'S system makes it easier for her to understand why they insist on starting on a low dose. I am prescribed fentanyl but has also been using heroin, her GP is planning to keep her on the fentanyl while prescribing methadone, does anyone know if there is any information out there on whether this is safe or advisable?.
     
  19. Orchid_Suspiria

    Orchid_Suspiria Silver Member

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    I remember when he discovered methadone.He thought "Wow the answer to all his problems,it's feeling blissfull and opiated but not just for a few hours ALL DAY!"Swim regrets this.Whereas heroin and all the other opiates simply gave swim a love for opiates methadone gave him a dependence on them.