Drug info - Methylone Research

Discussion in 'Beta-Ketones' started by Broshious, Feb 2, 2007.

  1. Broshious

    Broshious Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    261
    Messages:
    387
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    from U.K.
    I am intending on conducting some personal research into ways to possibly potentiate the effects of Methylone(being as it is rather expensive).

    First I would like to mention his background with the substance(which ain't much). SWIM very recently even became aware of RCs, and as he experiences significant social anxiety, looked for the most powerful empathogen. He found that Methylone seemed to be it, found a supplier, and LOVED it. Despite the numerous warnings of experienced users on the site I took Methylone far too often (~4.5g in a little over a month). Toward the end he was even a bit addicted to it. I have since regained his senses and wants to find out(in a much safer manner) if certain things that he has read about will potentiate Methylone.

    It has been 2 months since my first excessive experience with Methylone so I feel as if he is ready to begin again. Now I will give his antioxidant,neuroprotective/enhancement regimen for when he takes Methylone(Mind that I have no medical expertise and most of what he is taking besides ALA, Vitamin C, and Vitamin E have not been proven to do anything, and that his timing is just a guesstimate of when would be best)

    1 Aspirin at -2hr (This is new found this on the net somewheres)
    ~2.4g Piracetam w/ 6g Choline (This is taken daily regardless)
    Oxiracetam at -2hr
    4 tums at -10min
    1g Vitamin C at -15min and then every 15min until 12g is consumed(I have done this plenty of times before and no overdose(i.e. diarrhea) has yet occurred)
    400 IU Vitamin E at -30min and +2hr
    300mg ALA at -30min, +30min, and +2hr
    120mg Ginkgo Biloba at -30min
    200mg Magnesium Glycinate(Supposed to be highly absorbable) -30min, +30min
    50mg Zing Picolinate at -30min
    5-htp is normally taken daily at 100mg or if within a week of Methylone use 200mg and on the day of usage 100mg in the morning, -2hr, 0, +2hr, and pre-bed(I have never experienced serotonin syndrome and Methylone has much less effect on serotonin)

    Now for the good part:

    SWIM's first test will be a control with normal dosing protocol at 200mg. As I have never done a trip report before he will attempt(which is hard when you're peaking on Methylone) to keep a solid record of when the effects occur and be as accurate as he can as to their strength.

    I plan to then wait two weeks(possibly more) and during those two weeks take 5mg/day of the MAO-B inhibitor Deprenyl with an extra 5mg the day of ingestion of 200mg Methylone. I know combining this with Methylone is potentially dangerous, but as he has read that it may be neuroprotective as well as the fact that MAO-B deals with Phenethylamines so might potentiate Methylone, SWIM intends to try it.

    SWIM's next experiment(most likely at least a month later) would be to drink 8oz of grapefruit juice 2hr prior and 8oz with the 200mg of Methylone. The theory behind this is MDMA is metabolized partly by CYP3A4 which is inhibited by grapefruit juice and potentiates many drugs as a result. I am uncertain if this is true of Methylone, but that's the reason for experiments.:)

    I have also heard of the theory that taking PEA might help to prolong the effects of Methylone. I plan to ingest 500mg PEA w/ 200mg Methylone and then an additional 500mg PEA at +1hr.



    I would now like to appeal to the much more experienced and knowledgeable people here in the Research Chemical forum to inform him of any critiques of his planned experiments, possible other experiments that I could conduct with easily obtainable materials, or if they think he is just plain crazy.

    Also, I have two specific questions regarding Methylone storage.

    1) I have read that Methylone is very stable dissolved in water, but I am still wondering if it would be perfectly fine to dissolve 5g(which could take quite awhile to use) and store it in the fridge.

    2) I have successfully made a 25mg/ml solution of Methylone and wants to know if 50mg/ml is doable without saturation.

    I plan to begin testing next weekend(assuming it arrives in time). Feel free to comment.
     
    1. 4/5,
      It's great that u are ontop with safety
      Sep 18, 2009
  2. grandbaby

    grandbaby Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    1,122
    Messages:
    602
    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    51 y/o
    I applaud you for striking out to further our knowledge of the temptress Methylone, who has confounded minds and drained pocketbooks for literally a few years now, while also remaining, in many important ways, less than completely satisfying to all customers, or, as we used to say in a less enlightened era, a prick-tease.

    But can you parse your regimen line by line and tell us what all that goop you're taking is supposed to DO, exactly? And if any or all of it works without your liver busting out of your flank screaming "Every Organ For Himself!", how are you going to know which item or items actually did the trick?

    No Manitol in there, I notice, which is the only putative potentiator I've been aware of. But then, I live in a glass box with a Bilbo Baggins-in-a-laundromat door where some nice men in white coats run me through a daily workout, and I don't get much broadcast news. *sigh.* It's a living.

    Me, I'm going to try Methylone with 277mg of Placebo and see what works... :)
     
  3. Broshious

    Broshious Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    261
    Messages:
    387
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    from U.K.
    The only one of these for potentiation is the tums. I haven't actually used TUMS before, but took 2tsp of baking soda 10min prior to a Methylone trip and found the peak onset was faster and the peak higher than usual. This was confirmed by another user on here that took an antacid.

    All the rest are for safety purposes(And possible to prevent tolerance from developing as quickly). Either to avoid neurotoxicty, or to avoid the short term memory problems I have had while on Methylone. Efficacy of these is certainly questionable.


    1 Aspirin at -2hr (SWIM actually just saw something bad about this so SWIM won't be taking it)

    ~2.4g Piracetam w/ 6g Choline - (Nootropic hopefully will help with memory issues and possible neuroprotection) (This is taken daily regardless)

    Oxiracetam(Same as Piracetam) at -2hr

    4 tums(explained above) at -10min

    1g Vitamin C(Antioxidant for neuroprotection) at -15min and then every 15min until 12g is consumed(I have done this plenty of times before and no overdose(i.e. diarrhea) has yet occurred)

    400 IU Vitamin E(Same as above) at -30min and +2hr

    300mg ALA(Ditto) at -30min, +30min, and +2hr

    120mg Ginkgo Biloba(For memory) at -30min

    200mg Magnesium Glycinate (Said to help with jaw clenching and seems to work quite well although could have been from repeated usage of Methylone so this has yet to be proven for SWIM) (Supposed to be highly absorbable) -30min, +30min

    50mg Zing Picolinate(For neuroprotection) at -30min

    5-htp(Should be obvious) is normally taken daily at 100mg or if within a week of Methylone use 200mg and on the day of usage 100mg in the morning, -2hr, 0, +2hr, and pre-bed(I have never experienced serotonin syndrome and Methylone has much less effect on serotonin)

    Let SWIM know if any more info is needed.
     
    1. 5/5,
      Thanks for sharing this research
      Feb 24, 2010
  4. Rush

    Rush Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    146
    Messages:
    155
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    from switzerland
    :) very interesting this thread!

    I would advice you Selenium, NAC(N-Acetylcysteine) and ginseng for antioxidant protection.

    about vitamin C I think that is useless taking more than 200 mg(you said you took 1g-12g and with 12g you could have an overdose!:eek: ), because your body expels the unnecessary(and that's why if you drink too much multivitamins integrators, you'll piss orange:p)
    vitamin C RDA is 60mg.when you take the M1 you need more antioxidant, so you will need at least 200%-300%RDA dose.

    however, to boost methylone effects, like you asked, my advice is to use hypericum and passionflower, that are mild MAO inhibithors, and monoamines reuptake inhibitors.
    swim enjoyed full methylone experience at 80mg with those two relaxant herbs, while most people says that under 150-200mg is a waste.
     
    1. 2/5,
      shouldn't combine methylone with mao inhibitors, should have given a warning.
      Dec 1, 2008
  5. Broshious

    Broshious Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    261
    Messages:
    387
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    from U.K.
    Yes I had considered general MAOI inhibitors as well. That tends to get into the danger area, but SWIM supposes as long as he started with a low dose as you did he could do it pretty safely. Could you elaborate as to dosages of the Hypericum(St. John's Wort) and Passionflower, and perhaps standardizations of what you took?

    With regard to the vitamin C. Here is an excerpt of an article of a study done on rats with regards to MDMA(Methylone isn't MDMA but how many studies have been done on Methylone?)



    Shankaran studied 4 groups of rats, one which received saline only, one group saline + ascorbic acid, one group saline + MDMA (10mg/kg ip), and one group ascorbic acid (100mg/kg ip) + MDMA (10mg/kg ip). One week later, a few rats from each group were killed and their levels of serotonin measured. The rats who received ascorbic acid with MDMA did not have statistically different serotonin levels than the rats who received saline-only or vitamin C-only, but the rats who received MDMA+saline had serotonin levels about 40% lower than all of the other rats, suggesting neurotoxicity. At the same time, the remaining live rats were all given MDMA (10mg / kg injected, 4 times in 8 hours) and their behavioral and biochemical reactions recorded. The results clearly demonstrated that the rats who received MDMA without ascorbic acid during their first session showed substantially attenuated effects to the second administration compared to the other 3 groups.


    At 100mg/kg that would come out to 7.7g of vitamin C for someone who weighs 170lbs. As they injected the vitamin C it was absorbed far more readily than ingested vitamin C so more would be required. Vitamin C has a very short half-life (30 minutes in blood plasma) ,and SWIM can't find the data, but the more you take at one time the worse the absorption so SWIM figures frequent dosing might help. This is all speculation, but SWIM figures when it comes to Methylone better safe than sorry.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2007
  6. Rush

    Rush Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    146
    Messages:
    155
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    from switzerland
    (sorry if this post is long, i'll but it in sections :D )

    ah, i see...but i don't think I could obtain so high quantities of vitamin C :) ... so I prefer taking it continusly as every day RDA dose:) you think that its ok??

    ABOUT HYPERICUM AND PASSIONFLOWER
    about hypericum and passionflower, I take them every day, medium dose of an herbal extract in pills, but he don't know the exact quantity in mg of the pills.I advice you to ask for some herbal supplement in a drugstore or a pharmacy, and take a medium dose of that...it should work.
    they are only mild maois and monoamine reuptakes inhib. so don't expect much from them. however for swim, they work very good.(i go for them because they are much easier to obtain and cheap than other things:) )

    Swim noticed that since he tooks hypericum and passionflower daily, he never experienced anxiety and depression that are common in downs from stimulant drugs,the downs are shorter, and, also, he needs lower doses of everithing to notice effects.(which is great!! both for health and wallet;) )

    and he feels better and happy every day:D ...i really suggest you those two herbal supplements(plus a bit of methylone sometimes;)!! )....they made swim life better and killed that sort of mild social anxiety and depression that he used to have...
    just be careful on dosing, since a medium dose could be blasting..i'll tell you recently swim experienced a low-medium dose(50mg) of tfmpp while on Hypericum and passionflower...and he was sick for two days(euphoria, vomiting nausea depression fever:( )...and this while most people says tfmpp effects alone are not noticeable...this just to explain you that is possible to amplifies drugs effects.so, be careful.

    ABOUT METHYLONE AND HEALTH(NEUROTOXICITY)
    the posts before i said 'full tryptamine experience'...but you should consider that swim hates high doses with blasting effcts(that enchances side effects, and give swim high downs unpleasant), so maybe, what You expexts from M1, is different from what SWIM expects from M1.
    swim expects an antidepressive energy socializing feeling that makes his life better, and that makes he feel happy even in the days after, not a blasting 2 hours euphoria that gaves a depression the next week!:)

    another thing, i think that methylone is quite safe compared to mdma, because it is less potent,milder, and has minor action on 5ht neurons, so eating balanced the next days(tryptophan and phenilalanine, precursors of monoamines that are found in food) instead of taking 5htp(that unfortunatly,in my country it needs prescription:( ) and PEA should be ok.
    the harm of MDMA is from its metabolites(that are oxidants).Methylone has different metabolites,and i guess that they shouldn't be oxidants, because methylone has a different chemical structure.the only danger from methylone should be monoamine depletion.

    also, the fact itself that MDMA is so harmful is still in discussion.
    the gov. studies about it were probably made with meth-amphetamine, and in other ones there were given to monkeys up to 10 grams daily for months...so, taking MDMA once a month, or even once a week wont lead to brain damage like in someone of those menkeys!(and methylone is even milder:D !)read here the controversy: http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/#ricaurte


    as I always said, low doses are safer.don't exagerate.:D

    ABOUT THE HARM REDUCTION(ANTIOXIDANTS)
    about aspirin, its a BAD idea.aspirin is toxic for the stomach,damaging the membranes and incrasing gastric acid release.
    stimulant drugs(like M1), also stimulate the gastric liquids release, in two ways, acting on stomach receptors, and on CNS receptors.so is a two-way stomach damaging.if you drink alchool is even worst.so be careful about it. if you have an headache in downs(swim in fact notices a little, nut still unconfortable headache the day after), i advice you to take acetaminophen instead of aspirin.


    swim too uses piracetam, is great. but why you take oxiracetam? it does the same of piracetam...or not:confused: ??

    also 6g of choline is a lot:eek: !!! I take 6mg(daily, its the RDA, when using M1 he doubles the dose but not so much):) . pireacetam enchances acetylcholine production in brain from choline right? that's why it helps memory:cool:

    the thing of grapefruit juice is a great idea!:)
    i think i'll try it soon!let me know about your experiments!

    Swim too takes vitamin E but in this case I take more than you:p , more than 10mgs that is a lot compared to yours 400 micrograms!

    however, thank you for all those very useful harm-reduction substances infos,:) ...before reading this thread, i was about to post a new thread asking for harm reduction, but now i found what i was searching for!thx a lot :)
     
  7. Broshious

    Broshious Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    261
    Messages:
    387
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    from U.K.
    I found the 6g dosing from a bodybuilding site. I don't know if this is a good amount to take or not, and since reading more posts about choline on here I have decided to lower it to 3g.

    SWIM decided to add Oxiractem because he had gotten some and might as well use it for something:) .

    As for the vitamin E that is 400 IU(international units) which on the vitamin bottle says is 1,333% of the RDA(15mg) so it is around 200mg of vitamin E.

    SWIM must have misread what he had found to say aspirin would be a good idea and has since decided against it.

    With regard to toxicity, as there has been little research into Methylone, I am playing it safe, and treating it as if it were as neurotoxic as MDMA supposedly is.
     
  8. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    849
    Messages:
    2,355
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2004
    from Rhode Island, U.S.A.
    No offense, but in SWIM's opinion the majority of all this is nonsense/placebo. Unlike downers, it's difficult to potentiate or increase the duration of stimulants. Best chance would be to take two stims at once, but I don't know what and can't recommend anything.
     
  9. Rush

    Rush Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    146
    Messages:
    155
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    from switzerland
    Are you sure?:confused:
    cause i'd thought that maois(passionflower&hypericum are mild maois) would lower the dose of anything!

    however maois or not, the fact is that I need only 80 mg of M1 to notice some euphoria...maybe it is just because he's slim!:p
     
  10. Rush

    Rush Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    146
    Messages:
    155
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    from switzerland
    Ah, another thing, what are your advices for the came down and the day after?
    swim in the comedown just after the experience is a bit tired but cant sleep, and he lacks of energy.
    the next day is also a bit down, but as hours passes, he feels even better than before he took M1!
     
  11. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

    Reputation Points:
    824
    Messages:
    1,132
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    from Australia
    there is a difference between proper planning and apriori research and building a ziggurat of expectations.

    as all little psychonuts know expectations (attachments) lead to failure.

    i do not condone potentiation posts - M1 is plenty strong enough - but were one to factor in the costs of the proposed regimen, a short perusal would show the cost benefit to be in the negative.

    used as intended, M1 is not neurotoxic enough to warrant the Maginot line of x-oxidant defences.

    vitamin C is waay overestimated as to its benefits. in high doses, it will 'wash out' the other hydrophilic vitamins which your body may have had a use for. there was this one arguement bewtween L.Pauling (i just think he liked sour) and a certain biochemist with Linus holding the short end of the stick in the end (mebbe i should rephrase that very last bit?)

    do not fuck around w/MAOIs even mild ones in combination with anything.

    my 2 cents discounted for inflation.
     
    1. 5/5,
      well said
      Feb 13, 2007
  12. Broshious

    Broshious Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    261
    Messages:
    387
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    from U.K.
    Yes I had considered he was going a tad bit nuts with his regimen. I have been considering cutting back to 3-4g of vit C. Also, it's not that I want to take 200mg, potentiated, and go crazy, he is mostly looking for ways to take say 100mg and get the experience of 200mg because of the expense and the soon probable banning of Methylone in the US.


     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2007
  13. snapper

    snapper Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    2,208
    Messages:
    2,136
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    from U.S.A.
    I have found even really big doses of passionflower extract to be devoid of any significant MAOI effect. Nice sedative and anxiolytic effect, though, but no MAOI. Other species of passionflower than P. incarnata have some harmine in them, but they are usually not the ones sold and the amounts are small.
    Vitamin C is good in small frequent doses, though there are plenty of other antioxidants. A time-released ester-C supplement should be adequate for even the most stressed antioxidant system.
     
  14. Broshious

    Broshious Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    261
    Messages:
    387
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    from U.K.
    Sorry to disappoint, but SWIM can't handle this stuff. SWIM loses all control. I have much greater respect for drug addicts now. You always see them depicted so negatively, but it's so much harder than it would seem to anyone who hasn't been there. So if you want to lock/delete the thread go ahead.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2007
  15. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    849
    Messages:
    2,355
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2004
    from Rhode Island, U.S.A.
    I agree; the results will be unpredictable and there's a chance you can DIE... no potentiation is worth that kind of risk.
     
  16. Rush

    Rush Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    146
    Messages:
    155
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    from switzerland
    Going back to the original methylone topic,sombodytried the grapefruitJuice+Methylone combination???
    works??

    about maois, arent flavonoids(that are found even in chamomile) mild maois??
     
  17. pankreeas

    pankreeas Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    394
    Messages:
    474
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    99 y/o
    swim Just dosed on 250mg methylone after eating 1/2 a grapefruit. He took 1 tsp of baking soda in water 10 minutes prior as well. He will now commence holding the handles of his chair tightly. Will update later


    + 2 hours and I has let go of his seat.. what happened? I feel virtually no effects of the methylone, even after insufflating another 50 mg. He did dose on methylone 3 days ago, but before that he took 2 weeks off. His experience 3 days ago was very prominent. And now very he feels very agitated and disinterested with everything. Almost as if there was no seratonin in him to be bullied.

    He decided to insufflate 50mg of cocaine; of which half would normally intensify the methylone, however he barely even feels the cola. Dang this just ain't any fun...


    +3 hours And things get stranger... swim eats the other 1/2 grapefruit and drank 250mg of codeine flavored water from an extraction. Not more than 15 minutes later I was absolutely floored with the kind of euphoria one can forever try to achieve again with a substance. This was also 75 mg or so less than his regular codeine dose altho it produced such powerful opiatey euphoria I had not gotten in quite some time. His first Kratom dose ages ago to be precise. There was and is still no itchiness, no nodding off, and strangest of all, no need to do more coke.

    Now keep in mind that none of these combos / methods of administration are new to swim, well everything except for the eating of 1/2 a grapefruit after the baking soda. One thing he will note is that he started takin tyrosine 2000mg, glutamine 500mg, and tryptophan 500mg (every other day, others once a day), last week (on day 5 now) as he has not been properly nourishing his body sufficiently. Truley bizzare outcomes tonight. Guess this is what research is all about. Any ideas?


    +6 Hours and he just couldn't leave well enough alone. Not quite ready to part ways with the euphoria that was steadily approaching baseline, he thought "I could get hit by a bus tomorrow and never know what it would have been like to give the methylone 1 last chance on this night" and promptly retrieved his methylone and insufflated 50 mg's. Lets just say Not a million monkeys (not even Bongo's trained apes) typing on a million typewriters could construct a sentence that could describe all of 5 minutes after insufflation. So after starting his journey today with hitchiking in the back of a van full of slaughterhouse chicken, he managed to ride it out on an absolute freight train of pleasure. Now can anyone tell him why?
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2007
    1. 4/5,
      Nice and interesting trip report, must have been fun indeed
      Jan 2, 2010
  18. Broshious

    Broshious Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    261
    Messages:
    387
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    from U.K.
    I have no idea why that happened, but it seems like it wasn't too bad of an experience huh? I have drinking grapefruit juice before/with Methylone and he really didn't notice any difference at all.
     
  19. snapper

    snapper Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    2,208
    Messages:
    2,136
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    from U.S.A.
    However, grapefruit juice with codeine may have made a difference.