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Mild Opiate Withdrawal: what works for you?

Discussion in 'Opiate addiction' started by norcolepsy, Jul 4, 2008.

  1. norcolepsy

    norcolepsy Silver Member

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    Swim's friend has been on and off daily use of hydocodone (mostly on) for the last year and would like to share his experience with alleviating mild opiate withdrawal. Currently, Swim's friend has used 25 mg daily for the past 90 days.

    In order to know if one classifies as a victim of mild opiate withdrawal sympton, the following criteria should generally be met:

    - have used an opiate daily for over 3 weeks
    - have used < half gram of heroin a day
    - have used < 30-40 mg of hydrocodone / < 20 mg of oxycodone

    Swim's friend found the following regimen to relieve WD symptoms 65-75%

    - Wake up early (as if one has much choice) and have 6-800 mg of IBuprofen or ASA readily available to wash down

    - Stretch your muscles (swims friend has tight hammys and usually experiences WD discomfort and focuses on stretching those out more then anything but may vary for each person)
    - Take 40 mg of inderal (this is more accessible for swims friend but clonodine is said to be a better choice) note that swims friend hasn't seen this documented but swears it does help
    - take a massive multi-vitamin along with a vitamin B complex
    - take hot shower/baths, spend time in the warm sun (if possible, luckily it is summer here) and..
    -exercise! even if its low rate exercise like walking, golfing, frolfing..whatever, try to stay active
    - stretch before going to sleep if need be (note again, this may not do much for some but swims friend's muscles are irregularly tight and it DOES help him alot)

    That is mainly it. Mild Opiate Withdrawal syndrome is no doubt, a cinch compared to regular or sever opiate WD..but nonetheless can be extremely annoying when you are trying to stay on par with your job/life/goals. Hopefully this homemade remedy will help someone else out there.:)
     
  2. Politicalchalk

    Politicalchalk Titanium Member

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    Re: Mild Opiate Withdrawal: what works for swim

    Swim agrees that keeping active is *essential* for getting through it. If one has all day to sit around, do nothing, etc, one in w/d tends to think of getting drugs. Keeping active focuses the mind away from this.

    Supportive measures are also helpful, if not key: addressing your specific symptoms, and targeting them individually. Muscle aches? Muscle relaxer. Can't sleep? Sleeping pill. Random, assorted pain? Ibuprofen. The shits?:loperamide (Immodium) or diphenoxylate (Lomotil) can really come in handy. Anxious? Maybe a benzo, or hydroxyzine. Clonidine helps in some weird, general way. If possible, try and titrate down as low as you can, over as long a period of time as one's supply will allow. This will decrease the overall intensity of symptoms.

    Also, when one stops completely (not "running out," but "trying to get clean") -- it is important to ensure that one has no access to more. It will only prolong withdrawal.
     
  3. oliverthered

    oliverthered Newbie

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    Re: Mild Opiate Withdrawal: what works for swim

    I've found a number of people having a lot of issues with subtex,
    one guy I know found that it gave him withdrawal after 2mg insuficated, even after having abstained from opiates for over 5 weeks, and only having used SOA once every week max for a few months prior.

    He said that he preferred to have a small dose of SOA or stimulants and deal with more disabling symptoms after a few days of feeling OK than hang out the subtex withdrawal.

    One of the worst things I've known people to report, including him, where that the withdrawal comes and goes and varies in intensity with little or know predictability.

    Others are having great difficulty even after titrating down to a scarping off the side of an 8mg every two to three days.

    I would say that from the people I know and some personal experience with things like Post Traumatic Stress, ADHD and Aspergers, and neroleptic cold turkey after 4 years on proscription (lasted over a year 6 months of tripping!) that dealing with other 'issues' is the most important thing, as somatic expression is very similar to opiate withdrawal and PAWS and that your body/mind remember those responses and they creep up on you later. e.g. IBS , fibromalgya etc...

    Hot baths, environmental stimulation, relaxation training, general desensitisation, pattern breaking, exercise, fat and water soluble fibres (OATS) and stimulating foods (such as ginger or chilli) etc.... have proven by far the best.

    So all I'd say is that some people get off real easy and some people have lots of other symptoms, even after weeks / months of of whatever especially if they are effectively self medicating masking other underling issues.
     
  4. Pain Hurts

    Pain Hurts Mercury Member

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    swim only has has 2 times - 2-3 days WD but is extremely sensitive to it so the effects were severe and needs to support the above advice 100%; EXERCISE, EAT RIGHT, NO JUNK FOODS.

    ... Hot baths, environmental stimulation, relaxation training, general desensitisation, pattern breaking, exercise, fat and water soluble fibres (OATS) and stimulating foods (such as ginger or chilli) etc.... have proven by far the best.

    AGREED.

    ps. easier said than done.... swim was hiding under the covers in his basement ....

     
  5. spicybrainsgirl

    spicybrainsgirl

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    nigella sativa oil helps with aches...really!
     
  6. RubyHollywood

    RubyHollywood Silver Member

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    My Alleycat has only had to deal with W/D a few times & it's usually more on the mild side compared to what I've read on here. But when she's gone thru W/D in the past, she's always made sure to drink at least 2 liters of water daily, take all her vitamins, go for long walks/bikerides on the beach, and eat healthy. Also smoking a joint each night with a glass (or 2) of wine helped tremendously. HTH
     
  7. zerozerohero

    zerozerohero Titanium Member

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    If the symptoms seem bearable to SWIY, do not do anything and try to hrough it without replacing an habit with another one.
    One help may indeed be these L-Tryptophan/5-HTP/Vitamin(B6?) complex things - personally i find them very helpfull when withdrawing from the tramadol or codeine i get prescribed (in solid dosages sometimes) for my back problems. Even after having spent 2 weeks on Morphine with a broken leg, these supplements really did it for me and i felt no withdrawal symptoms whatsoever.
    If the withdrawal gets difficult to bear, please seek help - slipping into a truly heavy med abuse or heroin abuse problem is very easy in this situation.
    Good luck with all that anyway!
     
  8. Pain Hurts

    Pain Hurts Mercury Member

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    not sure if there is a WAY THAT SWIM COULD APPROVE AND HIGHLIGHT THIS REPLY / FEEDBACK FORUM - WIDE .... EVEN THOUGH THE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE NOT TOTALLY 100% "health conscious" ~ anyone in such a predicament WILL benefit immensely from this simple yet highly effective WD offsetting treatment... too bad those reading and trying to find this secret application in their stack of medical textbooks .... IT WON'T BE FOUND IN THERE PEOPLE.

    ... yu gotta live it to know. in body. in soul. in toilet. in shower. in bed. under covers. :thumbsup:

    great advice. (not doctor approved) .. unless you that House fellow. .
    .
     
  9. Anionix

    Anionix Silver Member

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    The methodology that one can use varies for each individual, but from my subjective perspective these are the best ways to combat the severity of opiate W/D's (even mild forms of W/D's can be a struggle for new users, who don't have experience in opiate W/D's. This list solely looks at the physical W/D's and does not help for PAWS (Post-acute W/D's)


    Number one: This I believe is the most important one of them all. When SWIM is taking opiates, one must look after themselves. Lack of exercise in general and a unhealthy diet affects everyone, so especially Addicts, depending on your state of being W/D's will differ in intensity. Without being scientific, being healthy will rid the toxins out of your body quicker. Take a good dose of multi-minerals and vitamins as well prior to stopping not just when SWIY decides to quit.

    Number two - If SWIM is going to use other recreational drugs or alcohol to help ease W/D's remember to use in moderation, too much and the next day you will feel the effects! You don't want to be withdrawing and hungover at the same time (obvious in sense, but you'll suprised how many people just get absolutely slaughtered on alcohol, thinking it will help!) Also if you are going to drink I wouldn't recommend beer, drink wine instead!

    Number three - Drink gallons of water, literally, it's pretty much impossible to drown yourself from drinking too much water. Another good drink is Tonic water which contains a (small) but enough quinine to slightly ease your restless legs, which to some is the worst symptom of them all combined with Insomina. Eat loads of bananas they are one of the most potent types of fruit (nutrition wise) and contains potassium. Ginger is essential also to help with nausea so buy some ginger roots, and make a tea from it ever hour!

    It is essential to also exercise, however far you go, even to your car and back will help tremedously. Although if u can't get out at all just walk back and forth across your room. Sitting for extended amounts of time in a sitting position will infuse restless legs even more. If it gets too much to bear, just pour in a good amount of lavender oil and salt in a bath and just lie their until it eases a little!

    Avoid using OTC sleep aids as they also cause havoc on your legs and although might give you an extra couple hours rest, the next morning your legs will absolutely kill and will make getting up and moving around (which helps and keeps your mind off W/D's) even harder. Instead drink herbal tea, in bulk. One can take Pain killers such as - ibuprofen for general aches although personally after a certain amount of time cut back or your body will get use to the painkillers instead (this what I've found personally and no way represents facts). I think a lot of time it is in your mind, and by just thinking negative thoughts all the time (hard I know) it will just make things worse and time will tick slowly by.

    Like I said if you're orginally quite conditioned you will be able to get up do things which will allow time to more quickly forward. Any questions ask away SWIM has a lot of experinces of W/d's as SWIM has relapsed more time than he can remember over the years!
     
  10. kailey_elise

    kailey_elise Gold Member

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    This is patently untrue & quite dangerous to tell someone, especially someone who's probably not in the best physical condition to begin with, know what I mean?

    There are recipes on the Internet to make your own "sports drink", you basically add a small amount of salt & sugar to water to make sure your mineral levels don't get too out of whack - I'd look this up, if I were in this position. Most people do have salt, sugar & water in whatever house/apartment/shelter they're holed up in, even if they're "stolen" packets from fast food restaurants. ;) Swipe a lemon from somewhere (or one of those ReaLemon[sup]tm[/sup] squeezy things) & flavor it up.

    The tonic water is a good idea, and it also has salt in it, in addition to the quinine. :) There's an OTC product called something like Doan's Restless Legs Formula or something, and I've found it very helpful for restless leg problems over the years. Oh, I just looked this up again, the USA apparently took quinine-containing OTC RLS meds off the market, but you can still get them online, and I swear I saw some in a drug store recently, but maybe not.

    You might also be able to find some "homeopathic" quinine tablets; if you have a nice doctor, you could even get access to the prescription version - it's technically for malaria, but has been used off-label for RLS for years, though the FDA is really trying to sweep that usage under the rug, calling it "dubious". *shrug*

    ~Kailey
     
  11. Anionix

    Anionix Silver Member

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    You're indeed correct, thank you for correcting me! I said it to try and demonstrate the necessity in drinking a lot of water, but overly dramatised my point just a little! :) Always what you said about getting tablets for restless legs is a very good idea, but prescription drugs are not always available. Interesting shout-out for Doan's Restless Legs Formula, never heard of it before!
     
  12. oliverthered

    oliverthered Newbie

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    I have know many people how have changed the amount of pain medication they are taking or felt other pain, either on or off pain medication when they have suffered various forms of rejection or loss of a loved one.

    Often as they feel more rejected from society and accepted in a group of self-mediators they up their usage... which seems partly paradoxical.

    It is widely known and documented that groups such as Narcotics Anonymous and Alcoholics Anonymous use acceptance and support within the group to aid abstinence from psychical substance based self medication and help.

    The link below is to some very recent studies that show (via fMRI brain scans) that 'rejection is linked to pain by burning in the somatic nervous system. wouldn't let me link to Wikipedia somatic nervous system. basically 'the control, nervous system and that which links you senses'

    wouldn't let me post a link to the reaserch.. but google tells me 'broken-heart-burns-like-hot-coffee-study-of-ex-lovers-shows' on 2011-03-28

    contains more information that I can put in

    "The research builds on a 2010 study published in the journal Psychological Science that showed people who took the painkiller acetaminophen, sold by Johnson & Johnson as Tylenol, felt less rejected when excluded from a ball-passing game. While rejection and physical pain aren’t identical, they are more similar than anyone had realized, said Edward Smith, a psychology professor at Columbia University in New York and an author of today’s study.

    “There may be something special about rejection,” Smith said in a telephone interview. “No other negative emotion, not anger and not fear, elicits reactions in the pain matrix of the brain.”

    The brain scans showed involvement of the secondary somatosensory cortex, which processes types of sensations including light touch, pain, pressure and temperature. Also activated in both rejection and physical pain was the dorsal posterior insula, which senses temperature.

    Photos and Heat

    Participants were shown photographs of a former partner who dumped them and of a friend who was the same sex as their former partner. Then heat was applied to elicit a burning feeling on their left arms and, in a separate application, a warm stimulation. Patients rated how they felt after each trial on a distress scale, and underwent fMRI brain scans. The warmth and the friend served as controls.

    “Spilling a hot cup of coffee on yourself and thinking about how rejected you feel when you look at the picture of a person that you recently experienced an unwanted breakup with may seem to elicit very different types of pain,” said Ethan Kross, a social psychologist at the University of Michigan and the article’s lead author, in a statement. “But this research shows that they may be even more similar than initially thought.”"



    The next link is into a graph of relapse risk[hazard] times, which I'm told I'm not allowed to post but details are....

    Survivial is accumulative, hazard is the differential (rate of change) of survival.

    I would say, 1 week, 4-5 weeks, 9 weeks, 12-14 big jump, then down to 28 then a jump again to 32 then a few blips down to zero at 43 weeks.

    I'm told tinyeye can find the image, or google knows it as thumb_bul_1`0_2_268_fig1a in psycnet apa org journals bul 110 2

    oliverthered added 1 Minutes and 52 Seconds later...

    it has been known that reducing rejection or not doing things where you may feel rejection or understanding why you are feeling the way you are doing can help partly or totally relieve the feeling of pain.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2011
  13. gvsulaker82

    gvsulaker82 Silver Member

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    SWIM not sure if this works for everyone but any time he goes on an opiate binge for a couple of weeks he ends the binge with about three days of taking 2-3 mg of Ativan per day. After three days SWIM stops, never seems to have a problem with any withdrawal symptoms or cravings.
     
  14. Relapse_Rollercoaster

    Relapse_Rollercoaster Silver Member

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    I glanced through and didn't see these things, so here it goes.

    My friend knocks herself out with Ambien, 1 in morning and one at night for the first few days. Of course she takes loperimide ( immodium) in high doses (10-25) mg, Vitamins (B-12, multi, Lysine), and IB 800, benadryl, pot, kolonopin as needed,stays hydrated, and takes one or three hot showers a day.

    Although she spends the first few days in bed for the most part her hubby knows the truth, so she gets up around 9 pm and spends the evening moving around the house, crying, thinking, aching, or whatevers needed while everyones in bed. It cuts down on her bitching at her family for no reason as well :)

    Then she sleeps after taking all the supplements again, and putting something in her belly. Go back to sleep by 4am so that when the body is ready it can regain a rythym. For instance after 2 full days of that routine her body popped up at 10:30am feeling refreshed on day 3. Now the rythym her schedule requires is back and she slept through the roughest part.

    She too was on a low dose so she relates to the mild part. After today the Ambien and pot will be replaced with melantonin and a few2 glasses of wine. And we'll see when she sleeps sound with no help once again. Small victories are good, celebrate them. Get out in the sun, and breath the air. You may see the trees differently today than you did yesterday.
     
  15. Donedone

    Donedone Newbie

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    This is my first post and my first day to be of opiates. I tapered over 3 months with a Dr from 80Mg of norco daily down to about 15 Mg a day. Im so freaked out about the days ahead of me. I see the things mentioned in this post but feel a little hopeless about then working...how long will all of this last??? Thank you
     
  16. FuegoJohnson

    FuegoJohnson Silver Member

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    Donedone, since it's been a few months, i'm sure you have either beaten(or not) the worst of things but hang in there, it's never permanent.

    This is my first post and I basically wanted to share some things that swim has learned over the years. Swim is 23 and has battled opiate addiction on and off since they were 17. Swim has dealt with w/ds from year long heroin use, hospitalization for a gastrointestinal blockage(1 month of hydromorphone(Dilaudid) shots every 4 hours) as well as various relapses along the way on every kind of pill.

    Obviously, as it's been stated, immodium can be a lifesaver through the worst of w/ds. Get some asap(preferably before you start your kick). Start with the recommended dose first, then move from there.

    Clonidine is a fantastic drug that can help with a few different things, but mainly the blood pressure spike you will inherently have when dealing with w/ds(this will help with the hot/cold nonsense which IMO is the worst part other than insomnia). It may be hard for some people to get but if you can find an addiction specialist see if they will at least help you out there(I got mine from my Suboxone prescriber). A few notes about Clonidine: You can apparently experience rebound hypertension from using it for prolonged periods of time so make sure you only take it for a few days as AS PRESCRIBED. Do not pop them hoping they will be your wonder pill, because they won't. Doses are usually .1 mg 3 times a day for 3-5 days.

    The most useful tool other than clonidine that swim has found have been Benzodiazepines. If you have had a benzo addiction in the past swim would certainly advise against this but for those who haven't, it will make the first few days entirely bearable. Whether it be Xanax, Ativan, Valium, or even Restoril, it will help you sleep and alleviate some of the restless leg issues. Use in moderation and only as long as you need. One does not want to swap one addiction for another.

    Marijuana also seems to help(at least for swim) the mental craving aspects of going through opiate w/d. In many cases and especially for more severe w/d symptoms, your mind is your own worst enemy. Whenever swim was at his darkest and wanting to get rid of the suffering, smoking a little pot(not too much, it can raise your BP which will make some symptoms worse) helped him stay the course.

    Swim won't say as much about fitness and nutrition as many have already covered it extensively but it is more important that you know. Exercising may be the last thing you want to do but could ultimately be the most rewarding.

    Lastly, swim would like to say one little thing about Suboxone/Subutex. In short, if your w/ds aren't completely unbearable, stay away from these pills. They are fantastic for people with lengthy addictions who need to regain a sense of normalcy again but if you haven't been using for long, do yourself a favor and kick it on your own. Taking Suboxone during your w/d won't cure it, either. It will only prolong it. Take it from swim who has kicked Suboxone a few times; the w/ds may not be as intense as heroin or oxycodone, but they are quite painful and last a LONG time.

    And lastly, good luck. Whether your addiction came because of pain management or otherwise, opiate w/d's are rough and can make one feel excluded from society in a variety of ways. Know that you aren't alone and there is life after opiate use.
     
  17. songpast

    songpast Silver Member

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    The best way my dog Fido has ever found to withdraw from opiates is two days withdrawal/detox via motrin, tylenol, water, melatonin, ambien, then one day using a narcotic then repeat. Also, switching from opiates to a lesser such as suboxone for three days only will get you over the hump especailly if you are on high doses of narcotics, then use the above method