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Experiences - Milk thistle potentiation of opiates?

Discussion in 'Opiates & Opioids' started by kingAro, Mar 4, 2011.

  1. kingAro

    kingAro Newbie

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    Male from U.K.
    SWIM has a question about potentiation of opiates with milk thistle. SWIM has been into bodybuilding for a few years now and understands milk thistle helps with the enzymes in the liver (not sure on what they are called). Now SWIM loves opiates, all opiates, and one of SWIMS favourite is codeine (for its subtleness and fictional yet still real feeling, hard to explain). SWIM understands that enzymes in the liver converts codeine into morphine and also thinks that milk thistle supposedly helps the liver 'produce' more of these enzymes (?). SWIM did a experiment and took 1200 mg of milk thistle a day for 1 week so it had full effect and also so SWIM's tolerance could lower a bit. Usually SWIM consumes 400 mg of codeine but since SWIM stopped using codeine for a week and for the purpose of the experiment 200mg of codeine was consumed. This dose would not even touch SWIM but this time was different and the euphoria was incredible and the feeling was just heavenly. Could the milk thistle cause these effects or was SWIM experiencing placebo?

    Again SWIM is new to this forum and would respect feedback.

    kingAro added 23 Minutes and 23 Seconds later...

    c'mon SWIM knows people can answer this!
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2011
  2. Lodewijkp

    Lodewijkp Silver Member

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    I've took milk thistle extracts for a certain period and i did not find any direct stimulant activity. The heavenly feeling could be from a increase of dopamine levels you get after or even during exercise. this summer i get seeds of different Silybum ( thistle ) species, germinate them and use the plant for supplemental/ healing purpose.
     
  3. Daniel59

    Daniel59 Silver Member

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    Sorry to re start an old thread, but I feel this is an important issue. Milk thistle, as well as valerian both have the unique quality of inhibiting gluccuronidation. Specifically it inhibits the enzyme ugt2b7, which is necessary for codeine to be turned to codeine-6-glucuronide. Milk thistle as I've read appears to be the more affective one. A very important note to add is that milk thistle, although advertised as a liver detoxifyer can actually be quite dangerous with the addition of acetaminophen.

    Daniel59 added 591 Minutes and 16 Seconds later...

    To further explain the milk thistle potentiating effects, by inhibiting ugt2b7 and causing less codeine to be metabolized into codeine-6-glucuonide, more codeine is available to be metabolized into morphine.

    Daniel59 added 160 Minutes and 19 Seconds later...

    You could also use a cyp3a7 inhibitor such as grapefruit juice. just be aware of all induced and inhibited enzymes incase they also inhibit cyp2d6. And one more thing I will briefly mention is that there are two enzyme specific inhibitors of ugt2b8 and 2b4 and those are valproic acid and ketorazole, but be aware these have both been linked to hepatotoxicity.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015