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Injecting - Misses veins everytime!

Discussion in 'Heroin' started by xxmandee77xx, Mar 14, 2010.

  1. xxmandee77xx

    xxmandee77xx Newbie

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    My pet giraffe told me:

    Ive been shooting up for about a month, prior to that i was using OC 80s for 2 years (one a day) I have a few questions, I keep missing my vein because my veins are so small, even when i tie up my arm i miss, is there a better way to do this so that im not wasting my time and money? Also, can someone tell me how much one bag of H is compared to an 80mg OC? My friend can always find my vein but i need to do it on my own, i think i have what they call spider veins and this is proving to be damn near impossible for me to do on my own. About 5 minutes ago i tried shooting in my hand since thats the only place i could see a visible vein and it bubbled up a bit, but I know i hit a vein because i pulled the needle and blood went into the syringe, i dont think i missed but i need some tips. Also is it normal when going from ocs to H that you dont always get a rush? or sometimes cant tell when you're high?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2010
  2. Helene

    Helene Gold Member

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    Re: I have spider veins, where can i shoot up?

    It sounds to me like you're missing the vein - a lump or bubble should not appear when you get a hit correctly. This is not a good thing to be doing, as with each missed hit is the risk of an infection or even an abscess developing.

    You asked how a bag of heroin compares to an 80mg oxycodone - there is no way anybody can tell you this for certain, as we have no idea how strong the heroin you are getting is. Percentage purities range from 5% to 95% - this is the problem with black market products, there is no standard strength or quality control. However, from a friend of mines' personal experience, the "rush" or high you get from IV heroin is a lot stronger than that which you get from oxycodone - certainly compared to oral/ insufflated oxycodone, and also when compared to IV oxycodone. Be careful - you do not want to get caught out and end up overdosing. When you inject a drug like heroin you are getting all of that dose in one go, greatly increasing your risk of overdose, at least compared to other routes of administration.

    My fiend also has rather small veins, this seems to be a curse of being a petite woman. The best advice she can give to you is to get hold of the smallest needles possible - ideally a 30g needle. (For more info on how the needle gauging system works, see - How the gauging system works). In addition to using a thin diameter needle, it may be of benefit to you to use a shorter length needle. The standard insulin syringes that most people use for injecting with are a half inch long. Similar syringes with a 2/3rds of an inch length needle are also available, and these are a lot better for hitting small veins.

    Next thing to take into account is your injecting technique. The smaller the vein, the slower you must inject into it. Smaller veins have a smaller capacity for extra liquid - for this reason one must inject slowly, to avoid bursting or blowing the vein.

    How tight are you putting the tourniquet on? You should not be tying off so tightly as to cut off the arterial supply to your arm, this will make it more difficult for you to get a vein, not less. You want to be tying the tourniquet tight enough to prevent the venous return (the blood coming back through the veins), but not tight enough to prevent the arterial flow from getting to your arm. You should still be able to feel a pulse in the artery on your wrist after having tightened the tourniquet.

    It is very important that you remove the tourniquet completely before you start injecting any liquid into your vein. This is even more imperative when dealing with thin and fragile veins, as having a tourniquet on will effectively seal the vein at one end, and the extra liquid injected could cause the vein to burst.

    Now, after giving you all that advice on how to hit up correctly, I'm going to try and convince you not to do it at all. Moving from oxycodone to heroin is a big step in the wrong direction. As is starting to inject. Injecting heroin opens you up to all sorts of issues that you would not have to even think about if you were not injecting. Things like hepatitis, HIV, abscesses, missed hits, blown veins, infections, deep vein thromboses. It is obvious that your veins are not going to last you very long. What happens when you run out of veins on your arms and hands? After using up the terribly fragile ones in your feet and ankles, your next step is your neck, or groin. I don't need to spell out how dangerous this is. Have you considered smoking or snorting heroin instead? This is a much safer method of administration. Of course, the addiction risk is still there, as is an albeit reduced risk of overdose (with snorting), but in terms of harm reduction, the benefits are many. As a new heroin user you may be surprised at how strong an effect you get from a non-IV route of administration.

    Using heroin every day, especially injecting it, will totally take over from any other opiate use. You will no longer get any real effect from oxycodone - from my good friend's experience on the matter, after years of heroin addiction a couple of hundred milligrams of oxycodone only just take the edge off withdrawal. You will be amazed at how quickly a tolerance develops to heroin, and how quickly a habit escalates.

    Please think very hard about moving in this direction. 80mg of oxycodone a day is not a huge, insurmountable habit - you could easily get off that if you wanted to. Starting to take heroin regularly is going to make it much, much more difficult to stop, when the time comes.

    H
     
  3. xxmandee77xx

    xxmandee77xx Newbie

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    Re: I have spider veins, where can i shoot up?

    And my pet iguana reminded me not to self incriminate, she also said:

    The information you gave me was extremely helpful, the person who taught me how to do this must have been a total idiot, and ive been putting myself in such danger, im going to my doctor tomorrow at 2:15 and im supposed to be getting put back on suboxen, so hopefully you wont read anymore posts from me,but thanks alot for all of that, I cant believe no one ever told me to untie it before injecting, im actually upset about this. and what does that quote mean? ive been trying for a while to figure it out.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2010
  4. zsappenfield

    zsappenfield Newbie

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    Re: I have spider veins, where can i shoot up?

    My pet kangaroo told me:

    i bet that has to be rough i had a friend of mine who happend to be sort of an older lady, around 45 or 50 , she wanted me to shoot her up in the first time for 20 years with a 4mg dalaudid....i was fine with it really i mean i knew her pretty well i just made the shot and got it all ready and when she pulled out her arm all i saw was all those tiny spider veins everywhere nothing even close to being something i thought i could hit...so i told her idk if i can do this and she said try it anyways so i sat there stickin her a bunch of times trying to get it juuuuust right in one of those tiny veins finally i gave up and told her to do it herself ...sure enough in one hit she had it fine and was like you pussy lol but ya spider veins must blow i have sweet ass hand veins i use and they are holding strong !
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2010
  5. missparkles

    missparkles Platinum Member & Advisor Donating Member

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    Re: I have spider veins, where can i shoot up?

    If you have bad veins now, just remember if you continue using this ROA (route of administration) this problem will only get worse. In a few years when you need blood work done it will make it more difficult (and more painful) and it could even affect the treatment you're offered.

    For example Sparkles was an IV heroin user, now when she has blood tests they have to go in her feet and neck to take blood, and as doctors now this is due to her long term addiction, if she needs pain meds there's always that question...."are you really in pain?" Cos it's always assumed that she's drug seeking.

    I'm just pointing this out cos a lot of people are unaware of the long term consequences of IV use, and everyone should know just what's waiting for them if they continue. If you use the search engine, you'll see just what I'm talking about. Think about it?

    Sparkles.:vibes:
     
  6. xxmandee77xx

    xxmandee77xx Newbie

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    SWIM misses every time!

    Swim has been using for a month or so, and she still cannot find veins, Shes found them a few times in her hand but other than that shes had to have friends help her out. She is alone right now, is well hydrated, and needs some tips, Shes a little on the thick side if that effects veins hiding or surfacing, help please!
     
  7. mickey_bee

    mickey_bee Gold Member

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    Re: SWIM misses every time!

    Forget about looking for veins, start feeling for them.

    Given that swiy has only been on the needle for a month, swim's primary advice would be stop now,..........once you learn how to inject properly, you'll get absolutely nothing off lesser routes of administration. Smoking/snorting won't do a thing for example.

    Having said that, and swim really recommend you think about it.........no one is glad they switched to IVing........

    This is a harm reduction site. And bad technique is very damaging. Swim would advise plaing a tourniquet around the bicep, pumping swiys arm for a few mins, letting it dangle etc. and then feel for the 'main spot' in the crook of swiys elbow. If swiy can't get a vein there, then swiy really should chuck out the whole idea altogether, as it just get's harder and harder, bloodier and bloodier, after that.
     
  8. Ontherooftops

    Ontherooftops Titanium Member

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    Re: SWIM misses every time!

    Yeah, I'm with mickey. Swiy should stop now. Once your habit goes IV it will never be maintainable in the way it can be through other routes. Tolerance rapidly increases... it's just guaranteed to get out of hand. It always, always does.

    Injecting onesself just isn't easy. If SWIY is already in a place where she needs a little more bang for her buck, why not try rectal administration (there are teks for this here). The rush is ever so slightly less, but swiy gets just about as much bang for swiy's buck and it's way less hard on swiy's body. Now, that may sound gross, but if swiy's cardiovascular system is ALREADY difficult to plug into, wait until a few veins collapse, some scar tissue forms, swiy gets cysts where the veins are accessible... _then_ we'll talk about gross.
     
  9. mechvirus

    mechvirus Silver Member

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    Re: SWIM misses every time!

    SWIY's already been told she should re-think injecting. The rainbow trout agrees, but knowing that her words will doubtfully have any impact on SWIY's decision:

    SWIY might try swinging her arm around in big circles prior to injecting, and using a warm compress to pump up the veins. She also recommends the use of a tourniquet, positioned above the spot she plans on injecting.

    Once she locates a vein, she should swipe the area once, in one direction, with an alcohol swab to remove surface bacteria.

    SWIY should insert the needle slowly, at a 30 degree angle in the direction of the blood flow, bevel-up. The bevel is the side of the wedge on the tip of the needle where the hole is visible.

    To confirm a vein has been hit, she should pull back just slightly on the plunger. Dark red blood should appear in the barrel of the syringe. If there is no blood, she has not located a vein. If there is bright red blood, STOP! This means she's hit an artery, which is very dangerous. She should pull out immediately, and apply pressure for a good 15 minutes. If there continues to be pain from this, she should seek medical advice. This pulling-back process is known to a lot of people as "flagging".

    If she has hit a vein, she should then take the tourniquet off before proceeding. Keeping the tourniquet on will cause extra pressure and stress on the vein, which is no good.

    SWIY's best option for injection sites would be the lower arms, followed by upper arms, followed by hands after that. Veins in the hand are thin and fragile, and SWIY would be better off using a smaller needle if injecting here. She should, if she continues injecting, rotate injection sites, not always relying on the same hole/vein. It needs a chance to heal. The better she treats it, the longer it will last.

    Also, please, NEVER share ANY equipment for injecting. This extends beyond the needle to the cooker, water, filter, etc.
     
  10. missparkles

    missparkles Platinum Member & Advisor Donating Member

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    Re: SWIM misses every time!

    Sorry love, don't mean to jump on the bandwagon, but Sparkles is with Mickey Bee and Ontherooftops on this one. If SWIY continues to try to IV (without success) they risk vein damage and abscesses. That's nasty, painful...and in some cases has far reaching med consequences. As Mickey Bee has already said, the ROA (route of administration) so far will have been smoking...right? Well then, it would be wiser to stick with it. SWIY won't get any more heroin by IV use, they'll just get that rush a lot quicker.

    DF is a harm reduction site, so no one is gonna encourage SWIY to IV, but in the name of harm reduction Sparkles would advise SWIY to talk to a mate who currently IVs (if SWIY is determined to use this way) and get some help and advice. Usually, if someone shows you just how to IV, it's not difficult. Here are the links Sparkles found here at DF that address this problem.

    http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28148

    http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28116

    And one from the Safer injecting site.

    http://www.saferinjecting.net/safer-injecting-drugs.html

    Hope they help love?:)

    To be honest, if Sparkles could go back and smoke (rather than IVing) she'd do it in a heartbeat. As things stand today, she has to have blood samples taken from her groin and neck, most doctors can't get a vein anywhere else. The looks she gets when a doctor can't access a vein make her feel like a dirty little junkie, even though she hasn't used in nearly 6 years.

    I know they shouldn't, but health professionals do tend to be a little judgmental, even after you've explained that you no longer use. The guilt you feel, cos they can't do what they need to do cos you've fucked up your veins is incredibly strong. You really feel it, physically and psychologically.

    Never forget that a lot of addicts actually become addicted to the needle, it becomes much more than just a ROA. Which by extension, makes it harder to quit, when SWIY decides to. Take care and stay safe.:)

    Sparkles.:vibes:
     
  11. At a CrossRoads

    At a CrossRoads Newbie

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    Re: SWIM misses every time!

    SWIM will probably sound like a broken record, but the other SWIMmers are right with their suggestions on not even trying to start IVing yourself. SWIM was in the same situation and could only have friends IV for him. As soon as SWIM started IVing himself, it was all over from there.

    If none of our information will change your mind, then follow the post above about the proper way to safely IV. Be safe!
     
  12. xxmandee77xx

    xxmandee77xx Newbie

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    Re: SWIM misses every time!

    Mandee understands what everyone has said and is grateful for the advice, She thinks the addiction to the actual needle its self is very real and scary..She tried again today and only ended up with another white patch of H under her skin, She has another question, Is it bad when the H crystalizes in the needle?
     
  13. xxmandee77xx

    xxmandee77xx Newbie

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    Swim was taught how to IV incorrectly! Needs help from experienced users!

    Swim used to be an OC addict, 2 years of snorting one to two 80s a day, a month ago a friend introduced her to H..Swim read all of the tips from other users and tried the big circles, she tried the warm compress, she tried tying up, but still getting veins to show and feeling them is difficult, She was never taught to untie before shooting, or to inject toward the bloodflow, She never knew about the differences in blood colors either. Swim has successfully gotten a rush by herself one time, and swim has also had friends inject her and only felt a rush that way maybe 6 times. Swim has multiple questions that would directly effect her safety, if other swimmers cold kindly answer she would greatly appreciate it

    Would significant weight loss effect her ability to find/feel her veins?
    Where exactly should she tie up?
    How far does the needle need to be in the skin?
    Is it possible that she is piercing the vein and going right thru it?
    Is she still getting the H into her system when she misses and has the SC patch under her skin?
    Swim is from the USA and she once, saw crystals in her needle, is that bad?
    Is Swim crazy for thinking the WD form OCs is worse than H? Bc she stared snorting H to get off the OCs

    Swim is obviously new at this, and asks that other swimmers have patience for her ignorance

    Swim wonders if her significant weight loss, 65lbs to be exact, has an effect on finding veins, for as long as swim can remember the doctors have always used pediatric needles on her, and sometimes have taken blood out of her hands, and if using the hands, where do you tie up? and which veins are safe to use? PLEASE HELP
     
  14. OsCarwild

    OsCarwild Newbie

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    Re: Swim was taught how to IV incorrectly! Needs help from experienced users!

    The main thing that SWIY needs to start doing is registering after she gets the needle in... Once the needle is in the arm, pull back on the plunger a very slight amount. If SWIY is in a vein then a little spout of blood will squirt back into the syringe, signaling that it is in a vein and good to go. If only air goes back into the syringe that means that SWIY missed the vein and needs to try to hit it again.

    As for those questions...

    -Usually weight loss makes the veins more visible, not less.
    -Tie up on the bicep if SWIY is hitting the crease of her arm with it.
    -Put the needle at an angle so that it is pointing up the arm (toward the shoulder).
    -SWIY can untie after they are sure they have the needle in the vein, right before SWIY actually shoots it.
    -If SWIY is putting the syringe at an angle and it doesn't have a ridiculously long needle on it, SWIY shouldn't have to worry too much about piercing all the way through to the other side.
    -If someone does miss the vein and just gets the SC patch under the skin, they may get some but it definitely won't be the same at hitting the vein. Not even close.
    -The needle should go in pretty far, but not extremely deep into the arm. Since it should be going in at a pretty good angle, a lot of the needle should be under the skin but it shouldn't be penetrating too deep into the arm itself.


    Basically just tie off around the bicep (after making sure that the needle and the spot on the arm are both cleaned off). Slap the arm pretty good a few times trying to make the veins pop out farther, maybe even do some pushups or something if they still aren't wanting to pop. Once they are popped, gently slide the needle in at a pretty good angle (closer to being flat with the arm than to being straight up).. REGISTER, by pulling back on the plunger a very small bit: if blood shoots into the syringe then SWIY is in the vein and good to go. If no blood shoots in to the syringe then try again to find the vein. After registering successfully, SWIY can gently remove the tie (being very careful not to move too much so that they don't shake the needle out of the vein. SWIY might just want to leave the tie on to be careful). Then slowly push down the plunger... Once SWIY is done they should leave the needle in for a couple seconds so they don't disturb the area too much right after the drugs go in. After a couple seconds pull it out, and SWIY should be feeling good.

    Oh, and as for the bottom of the question... The crease of the arm is pretty much always the best place to go. Veins in the hand are not very strong, they are actually pretty weak, so they aren't the best for shooting up in. They can get blown pretty easily. Whenever possible, go for the middle of the arm, either the crease or somewhere near it.

    Hope this was helpful... Anyone else who wants to add please do, this is just the process that has worked for SWIM. Anyone else with input please give it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  15. Abrad

    Abrad R.I.P. Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Re: Swim was taught how to IV incorrectly! Needs help from experienced users!

    The best advice anyone can possibly give is to avoid IV use completely.
     
  16. mickey_bee

    mickey_bee Gold Member

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    Re: SWIM misses every time!

    Of course it's bad!!!!

    Injecting a pure liquid solution of street-heroin is damaging enough.........but attempting to pump solids into swiy's veins?????

    If the solution in the syringe crystallises or starts to solidify at any point less than 24hrs after composition.......(swim dare say more than 24hrs), then chuck that garbage away, as it's either not heroin at all, or heroin cut with something making it far too dangerous to IV.

    Can't help noticing that the answer to all swiy's question could just be to stick to smoking!

    Swim so far has made 2 mistakes in his life. As in BIG mistakes, (apart from some sexual forgetfulness which were fortunately both resolved)....

    The first, was trying heroin, and not taking his friends advice to stop now, before the physical addiction started.

    The second, was switching from smoking to injecting. Within 2 months of switching from smoking, (which he had maintained for ~2 years), to injecting, he was using literally double the amount he was using the last time he smoked.
    Double the cost, yet he couldn't even get a nod! He was spending ALOT a day, stabbing himself with a needle, pumping the acidic vile solution into his veins, yet he was getting less of a high off it than when he used to smoke!!!

    Attempting to 'control' swiy's tolerance/habit, is hard enough when swiy is smoking/snorting. But when injecting........it's basically impossible. Swim wishes he could take swiy with him to just one supervised methadone dosing session, and let swiy see just what injecting can to do you.
    If swiy wasn't an IVer himself, there are days when he'd be sick looking at that queue,(line).
    In fact, even though swiy is an IVer, he's seen at least two injecting related infections/abcesses, which did make him gag.............just GAPING, putrid holes...it was the stench more than anything....................and swim's seen quite a few.

    Sorry, but swim can't just accept it............this is something which really is THAT bad.......and seriously, if swiy can't feel accessible veins at the moment, then it will just get so so so much worse.:thumbsdown:

    You can always have a smoke to get you well..........but wait until you've got the gear, cooked it up, but are sitting there, shaking, blood literally all over your body, and the heroin's still in the f**king syringe along with, (yet more), clotted blood. And 'cause swiy's tolerance is infinitely higher, the WD's swiy was trying to escape will be oh so much worse..
     
  17. rockbottom

    rockbottom Newbie

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    Re: SWiM misses veins everytime !

    swim recommends the tiny needle method---they make super fine-- and ultra fine --insulin syringes---one holds only 30 units and one 50--cant remember which is smaller---but both of those are good
     
  18. mickey_bee

    mickey_bee Gold Member

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    Re: Swim was taught how to IV incorrectly! Needs help from experienced users!

    Incidentally, there is a thread posted by the OP, 'Swiy misses everytime!'.

    As such, this thread is really pointless, and aside from that, there are looaaaddddsssss of threads on how to inject properly, including stickies.......so don't over post m'dear!:)
     
  19. Burgersoft777

    Burgersoft777 Silver Member

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    Re: Swim was taught how to IV incorrectly! Needs help from experienced users!


    Your right, but often such advice goes in one ear and out the other as they say:vibes:
    .
    The 2nd Best advice a person can receive is the safest way to do what is always going to be a very unsafe practice.
     
  20. mickey_bee

    mickey_bee Gold Member

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    Re: SWiM misses veins everytime !

    Incidentally, swiy's friend mentioned being a little overweight.

    If looking for veins then;

    a) The thinner you are, the more swiy's veins will become apparent.
    b) Excercise, (in particular muscle workouts), will not only decrease swiy's weight, but also actually strengthen and increase the size of swiy's veins, and helps bring them to the surface more, both in the short term, and the long term(where they'll remain nearer the surface more permanently, and simply more!)

    Before swim got into shooting H he used to work out, (weights etc.), quite regularly, and noticed not just increased muscle mass, but also much larger and more apparent veins, where previously, in many cases, there had been no visible veins at all.
    This does take time however, and swiy mustn't expect instant results.

    Similarly, swiy must remember not to over-do it. Working out too much actually destroys more muscle than it creates, as working out is, in simple terms, destroying the existing muscle fibers, allowing them to regrow bigger and stronger..............hence the need to leave 2/3 days to allow the broken muscle fibers to grow back bigger and stronger before working on the same muscle group again. Otherwise it's just wasted workout!
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010