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morphine pins and needles

Discussion in 'Morphine' started by newguy22, Jan 26, 2006.

  1. newguy22

    newguy22 Newbie

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    can andyone explain to swim why injecting morphine gives you pins and needles and something like hydromorphone(dilaudid) does not?
    is there a way to get rid of the pins and needles from morphine?
    swim could use some help if it is not to much trouble thanks.
     
  2. Motorhead

    Motorhead Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Swim often wondered this as well when he was spiking, and never had a clue what it was about. This swim didnt really mind the sensation, but preferred dilaudids as well. Anyway this is what swim found on a quick search.

    Prior to the onset of tolerance, both morphine and heroin reduce anxiety and tension, and induce feelings of well-being or euphoria, while somnolence, characterized by an inability to concentrate or sleepiness also occurs. Opiates cause respiratory depression by decreasing the brainstem's responsiveness to carbon dioxide, pupillary constriction, reduction of body temperature, as well as nausea and vomiting. Other effects include decreased motility of the stomach, decreased propulsive contractions of the large and small intestine, diminished pancreatic and bilary secretions, and increased tone of the anal sphincter, resulting in constipation. Increased tone of the detrusor muscle leads to a sense of urgency to urinate, while increased tone of the vestical sphincter results in urinary retention. And while there is an acute release of antidiuretic hormone , there is a simultaneous inhibition of ACTH, corticotropin-releasing factor, and gonadotropin. Peripheral vasodilatation occurs, resulting in pruritus and may cause the generally-observed increase in perspiration. Histamine release occurs, frequently resulting in a wheal-and-flare reaction, or "hive," at the site of injection and in a "pins-and-needles" sensation.

    So there it is-Histamine. Dont ask me if this is bad or not.:confused: .
     
  3. newguy22

    newguy22 Newbie

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    cool so i wonder why dilaudid whtch is a relation to morphine some people call it synthetic or drug store heroin does not give pins and needles or better not relese Histamine or not as much any way and i wonder if there is a way to stop this. swim can not take morphine because this happons so badly.
    brings swim to his knees. so swim has to stick with dilaudid, and swim is a 5 year dilaudid user and gets sick alot but morphine is easer to find then dilaudid. swim wishes there was a way to convert morphine to dilaudid or evan a synthesis to make dilaudid from codine or something.
    if swim could get rid of that pins and nee d le s with the hives with morphine then morphine would not be so bad.
    swim also gets a bad headache with morphine with real high blood pressure almost like swim's head is going to explode swim cant evan move his head for the pounding and high blood pressure and that is in small doses but swim is on 3x24mg hydromorph contin a day and does 1 24mg at once in a bang, so tolorence should not be the issue.
    well thank you for the info, at least swim has something swim can do some resurch on, if swim finds out any more swim will let you know if you are interested.
     
  4. Silver Fox

    Silver Fox Silver Member

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    As Motorhead has pointed out, amongst the many effects that opiates have, there is vasodilation and histamine release.

    Vasodilation can cause pins and needles (like when you have sat in an uncomfortable position cutting off the blood supply to your leg, and as the blood re-enters that leg it causes pins and needles and strange sensations; it is s similar effect).

    Vasodilation in the blood supply to your head can cause headaches. Often the pounding sensation is linked to the blood pumping through the vessels.

    Histamine release causes pruritis (itching), weal-and-flare reaction of the skin, often tissue swelling and discomfort. Be aware that the red itchy swollen skin happens not just on your limbs, but in mucous membranes such as the mouth and throat; also in the lungs causing pulmonary oedema. In the worst case scenario, this can obstruct breathing completely. This is a factor not to be underestimated when using opiates.

    Reaction to the side-effects of opiates is a very individual thing.
    Synthetic oipates have slightly different chemical structures, with different active sites, and will therefore activate different receptors in the body in different ways and to differing degrees, accounting for the variation in effects experienced.

    Although this post does not give you any solutions to your dilemmas, I hope that it makes you a bit more aware of what is happening in your own body.The body is a highly complex living machine. Be aware that most of these 'side-effects' actually have developed as life-saving mechanisms, they are indications that your body is in difficulty. Therefore trying to override them may not necessarily be in your own best interets....just a thought.

    Cheers,
    Silver Fox.
     
  5. Motorhead

    Motorhead Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Right on fox, thats interesting stuff. Like I said before i always wondered what was happening with the pins and needles, just never bothered to look it up before.
    I dont bother with the rig anymore newguy, and like silverfox said you might want to slow down yourself. Wow, you're bangin 24 mgs at a time now on a regular basis? Im not your mom or anything, but man that takes a toll after a while. As for the chemistry stuff, unless your are really dedicated to it I wouldnt bother. Swim thought about all that stuff before and beyond anything other than a Cold Water Extration, opiate chemistry is really heavy stuff. Takes ALOT of time, research, and hard work. Either way, good luck.
     
  6. u4ic

    u4ic Silver Member

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    Wow a 24mg time released diluadid. I hear they did away with those quite quickly in the u.s. They went by the name of paladone. They sound like a great idea to me. I've heard that of all the prescription opiates hydromorphone is almost identicle to herion when injected. As for the pins and needles thing I haven't a clue, maybe there's something in the tablets if that is what swim is using. They keep putting more crap in them to keep them from being used any other way than as directed, which is bullshit IMO.
     
  7. newguy22

    newguy22 Newbie

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    ya they are grey with tiny little beeds that have to be crushed to iv but you are right motor i dohave to slow down and want to so badly, however the withdraw sickness is terrible, swim has tried methadone and it works but swims girlfriend does it to and she will not give them up and when swim sees her doing them well swim vomits and sneezes and everything. like swim says swim has been doing it for 5 years and it is worse then it sounds, my advice to any new person wondering what the needls is all about.....your life, that is what it is about. swim does more then 3 24mg a day, if swim told you you would not believe swim, swim has gotten to the point that swim gets sick because of the meds,swim is not breging neither, swim is just looking for an answer or something, any way swim thanks everyone for the kind info and advice, it sounds like you sort of know where swim is comming from motor, and swim is glad to hear that you droped it. not an easy task by no means.
     
  8. MORPHEUS IV

    MORPHEUS IV Newbie

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    Pins and needles is just part of Morphine high, you can't get rid of it. This swim knows..........but it is a pleasant thing once you get used to it.
     
  9. MORPHEUS IV

    MORPHEUS IV Newbie

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    Methadone should be your VERY LAST CHOICE..........once you are on it, your chances of getting off of it are 90% AGAINST YOU. Better off biting the bullet for 14 days and get off of it that way, which is by NO means a good way to do it either. But Methadone involves politics that you simply can't fight. You know the saying "You can't fight City Hall?".......well, there you have it.
     
  10. MORPHEUS IV

    MORPHEUS IV Newbie

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    This SWIM was down to 5 MG of Methadone per day........down from 90 MG per day....self detoxed over a 9 month period, and the withdrawals from 5 MG per day were worse than any Heroin withdrawals that you can even imagine. 10 times worse....acompanied by dillusions and hallucinations, a real mind control thing. And it lasts for up to 6 months STRAIGHT....not a seconds relief.......can you handle that? SWIM had to try Subutex to get off the last 5 MG of Methadone for about 6 months..........it finally worked, but not without the help of a few Xanax.
     
  11. porco

    porco Newbie

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    swim has always found that from the first time swim used them, the ability to concentrate is greatly increased on opiates. many long nights of creativity and intense focus. different effects for everyone i guess.
     
  12. Citizen Kane

    Citizen Kane Newbie

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    It's caused by histamine, as has been pointed out already.

    Unlike morphine, hydromorphone is not associated with histamine release.

    Histamine is a protein involved in many allergic reactions. It's released by the body and causes several allergic symptoms, the most important of which are an inflammatory response and constrictions of the smooth muscles. The latter cause the "pins and needles" as well as nausea and vomiting.

    Swiy could combine morphine with an anti-histamine, counteracting the body's immunological mistake. Swiy could take one or two tablets of any anti-histamine (such as travel sickness, allergy, hayfever tablets) on a fairly empty stomach about one hour before (s)he consumes morphine. This should decrease the mentioned side-effects.

    Hope that helped. ;)
     
  13. Fantasian

    Fantasian Newbie

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    Couldnt have put it better, It might also help to inject more slowly therefore reducing the speed of the histamine release. Although this will also decrease the initial rush.

    Feel free to ask anything more.
     
  14. Forthesevenlakes

    Forthesevenlakes Newbie

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    swim would stay away from the drowsy antihistamines (diphenhydramine and the like) especially if swiy gets the nods easily! loratidine (claratin) always worked pretty well for swim to counteract the histamine release. great advice citizen kane!
     
  15. bandido

    bandido Newbie

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    needles

    the needles are from the guck in the pill, not the dope!! Dilaudid doesnt do it , no guck, liquid doesnt give the pins sooooo?? if you extract the goo from the pills it then doesnt give the needles so what s the confusion over?? some advice givers just dont know about this paticular topc, plain and simple!!
     
  16. Forthesevenlakes

    Forthesevenlakes Newbie

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    actually, the pins and needles could be due to histamine release. morphine in particular leads to more histamine release than other opiates/opioids. so yes, some advice givers do know about this particular topic.
     
  17. Fantasian

    Fantasian Newbie

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    SWIF has injected PURE MEDICAL MORPHINE SULPHATE . Unless the NHS really has gotten that bad i severely doubt that there is guck in the injection. As mentioned numerous times above the histamine release is the most likely explanation to the pins and needles.

    Please try to research the information read here before you argue against it.
     
  18. BUZZFACTOR

    BUZZFACTOR Silver Member

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    Bandido you're not as knowledgeable as you think. Gunk has nothing to do with pins/needles. REREAD Fantasian's post for accurate response. THANX Fantasian for separating the truth from the ramblings of someone so uneducated.
     
  19. jetsetgo

    jetsetgo Silver Member

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    SWIM has a question. SWIM has noticed pins, needles, skin crawling, bugs biting with not only opiates, but also with alcohol and a drug called clonidine. SWIM has used all of the above (not at once) for chronic pain. SWIM has asked SWIM's doc about it. He had no answer for SWIM other than to possibly see a neurologist. SWIM wonders if they have somehow damaged receptors or neurons or something like this. SWIM understands that the pins / needles are from histamine release. However SWIM often takes antihistamines for allergies SWIM has not noticed that antihistamines help.

    Please note that in the past SWIM was dependent on opiates and is no longer. SWIM knows what WD feels like. What SWIM is experiencing is not WD feelings.

    Can anyone help? SWIM is very curious about these very annoying sensations.

    Thanks
     
  20. Naked Lunch

    Naked Lunch Silver Member

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    To minimize the pins and needles effect one could always dilute ones morphine and inject it very slowly.