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Drug info - Mushrooms with Other Tryptamines

Discussion in 'Magic Mushrooms (Psilocybe & Amanita)' started by Ghetto_Chem, May 25, 2011.

  1. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

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    Swims friend was looking around a ref for another thread in the mushroom use forum. When he came across this and was surprised he had never heard of before. A list of mushrooms with tryptamines other than the typical Psilocybin, Psilocin, Baeocystin, Norbaeocystin. Check it out.

    Amanita citrina - Serotonin, N-methylserotonin, Bufotenine, Bufotenine N-oxide, N,N-dimethyltryptamine, 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine

    Amanita mappa - Bufotenine

    Amanita muscaria - Bufotenine

    Amanita pantherina - Bufotenine

    Amanita porphyria - Serotonin, N-methylserotonin, Bufotenine, Bufotenine N-oxide, 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine

    Amanita tomentella - Bufotenine

    The rest of the mushrooms on the list either contain Serotonin or they just say "Tryptamine Derivatives" which doesn't mean much.

    Has anyone else ever heard of Amanitas containing such substances? This paper is from 1977 so its not super old but still not brand new. Kinda hard to find new papers on subjects like this as governments try to keep knowledge like this away from the public.

    Swims friend will post the ref when he can gotta go for now.

    Some more info edited in...

    Wieland _et al_ (1953) extracted bufotenine from the poisonous mushrooms _Amanita mappa, Amanita muscaria_, and _Amanita pantherina_. Bufotenine was first found in the skin of several toad species and the dried secretion (Ch'an Su) of the Chinese toad has been known to be biologically active for centuries but there are no records of toad skin or its extract being used as hallucinogenic material. This suggests that there is too little bufotenine or that other substances which potentiate the effect of bufotenine are lacking in frog skin. We do not believe that Man has not sampled toad skin. Primitive man has been very adept at selecting those species of plants and animals which contained hallucinogenic compounds.

    The fly-agaric mushrooms are the only other natural source of bufotenine. But they also contain three other main constituents (Buck, 1961). Muscarin which is a parasympathomimetic substance is present. It acts directly on effector organs, smooth muscle, and glandular cells. Atropine prevents most of the effects. Also present in some species of _Amanita_ is a substance called pilzatropin which may be l-hyoscyamine. dl-hyoscyamine is atropine. Finally a pilztoxin is present because even after the muscarine present is prevented from acting by pretreatment with atropine, there remains a psychological effect. Narcoticlike intoxication, convulsions, and death have followed in spite of adequate treatment with atropine.

    Peace
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  2. Routemaster Flash

    Routemaster Flash Palladium Member

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    Yeah, I've certainly heard of Amanitas containing bufotenin. It's news to me about serotonin, DMT etc. However I should think they're all present in very trace quantities - far lower amounts than the psiloc(yb)in found in the active Psilocybe species - so it's not really feasible to use these mushrooms as sources for such chemicals.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2011
  3. Phungushead

    Phungushead Twisted Depiction Staff Member

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    Interesting thread.

    The 1953 paper by Wieland and Motzel (cited above) claimed to find bufotenine in Amanita muscaria, pantherina, and mappa (AKA citrina). However, all subsequent research has failed to reproduce and validate this result - The presence of bufotenine has only been confirmed for Amanita citrina, tomentella, and porphyria (most recently by Bresinsky and Besl Regensburg in 1985). Cross-contamination by Amanita citrina fruit bodies is believed to be the cause of all this confusion, and to the best of my knowledge, the popular view is that Amanita muscaria and pantherina do not contain psychoactive tryptamines.

    I also wonder if the information contained in the 2006 paper below is contributing to the confusion at all... Apparently various tryptamines were found in supposed Amanita muscaria extracts. But these are believed to be added to the product, as opposed to naturally occurring in the mushroom itself...

    Excerpt:
     
  4. The rolling tank

    The rolling tank Newbie

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    Hmm...just a thought, but if one were to eat a mushroom containing DMT or the like, they wouldn't even know it, as DMT is not orally active. So maybe there's more mushrooms with tryptamines in them, but we just don't know it. But like I said, it's just an idea...
     
  5. Routemaster Flash

    Routemaster Flash Palladium Member

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    Quite right, I don't think anyone is suggesting it would be possible to 'tryp' by eating any of the Amanita species - the only psychoactives in the genus are A. muscaria and A. pantherina (and possibly a couple of closely related species) because of their ibotenic acid/muscimol content. And anyone going around eating random Amanitas to see what happens is likely to end up dead quite soon.

    I'm fairly sure the Psilcybe mushrooms and their allies (Stopharia etc.) are the only mushrooms that contain orally active tryptamines, although there are uncomfirmed reports of a psychoactive bolete (pore mushroom) as well.
     
  6. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

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    Thanx for the replys,

    After reading around it does seem that there may have been a fuck up with that research cuz its one of the only papers out there that even claim this.

    But A. citrina, tomentella, and porphyria contain bufotenine? Does anyone know if they contain any amount of goods worthy of further research.

    Peace
     
  7. Routemaster Flash

    Routemaster Flash Palladium Member

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    I don't have a source to quote but I think I saw some figures once that were pretty tiny. Extracting bufotine from some A. citrina growing by the hundreds in your local woods is a nice idea but I can't see it being worthwhile if it were even possible for someone without some advanced chemistry equipment and training.

    If you want to mess about with bufotenine, buy some yopo or cebil seeds (Anadenathera genus) - these have really significant concentrations of the stuff, like 5-10% or even more. I can personally vouch that a very effective (though painful!) snuff can be made from them. Someone who knows what they're doing could probably produce some reasonably pure freebase bufotenine from these seeds and smoke it like DMT - in fact I've read accounts of it online.
     
  8. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

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    Heres what swims friend could find,

    From an Erowid article regarding bufotenine and tropane related alkaloids:

    Some reports actually seem to be the result of methodological mistakes (e.g., the ones concerning tropane alkaloids and Bufotenine). The substances at issue would be, in any case, too minimal in the species mentioned in the tropane/Bufotenine references to produce the described effects.

    In investigating a compound named Pilzatropine by Kolbert in 1881 because of pharmacological similarities, some authors (Lewis in 1955 and Manikowsky & Niezdodzki in 1962) reported the presence of hyoscyamine, atropine and scopolamine in the Amanita muscaria, (Salemink et al., 1963, Tyler and Groger, 1964). This suggests a mistake due to substances with the same chromategraphic behaviors as the tropane alkaloids. Furthermore, the percentage of content reported by Lewis would be, in any way, too low to contribute to the psychoactive activity of the fungus (Waser, 1965,1968)(5).

    As well, so far as Bufotenine goes, there is a report by Wieland and Motzel (1953) pertaining to Amanita muscaria, pantherina, and citrina. The presence of Bufotenine was then verified only for the species citrina, porphyria, and tomentelIa [Catalfolmo and Tyler, 1961; Tyler, 1961; Tyler and Groger, 1964b; Hoffer and Osmond, 1967; Eugster, 1968; Andary et al., 1978a, 1978b; Stijve, 1979; Perez-Silva and Aroche Alfonso, 1983; Bresinsky and Besl Regensburg, 1985]. There is probably a mistake due to contamination caused by carpophores of Amanita citrina. Bufotenine should be left out any way because it is not orally active [Fabing and Hawkins, 1956; Hoffer and Osmond, 1967; Schultes and Hofmann, 1980], and, according to some authors, not active at all.

    It sounds like even if these chemicals were there, they wouldn't be in high enough quantities to be worth any effort like you said Flash. Even if there was enough bufotenine in some of these mushrooms, the risk of mis-identification is probably not worth it.

    Peace
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 3, 2012
  9. xJSL

    xJSL Silver Member

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    Both Amanita porphyria and Amanita citrina look interesting. I wouldn't bother with the other ones because straight bufotenin doesn't sound too fun.
     
  10. Routemaster Flash

    Routemaster Flash Palladium Member

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    Even if either of those species contained worthwhile amounts of the substances mentioned, which I very much doubt, what do you plan to do with them? (Assuming you've found some growing somewhere and have successfully identified them - A. citrina's common name is 'false deathcap'...) Serotonin and DMT are inactive orally. Yes DMT can be made orally active if taken with an MAOI but you're looking at eating a fuckton of really bad-tasting mushooms that are slightly poisonous and very closely related to other species that are deadly poisonous in tiny quantities.

    Seriously, take it from someone who knows a bit about mushrooms: trying to get a tryptamine high from any Amanita species is definitely not going to have the desired effect and could well have undesired effects, such as death. The mushrooms with worthwhile amounts of tryptamines in them are the psilocybin species - see if you can find some liberty caps after a good rain shower in October (go with an EXPERIENCED mushroom hunter if you are not experienced yourself) or buy a grow kit and some P. cubensis spores.