N,N-DMT Basics

Discussion in 'DMT and Ayahuasca' started by Guest, Nov 3, 2003.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

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    It would be good to have somebody that sits with you as you warp into the DMT trip. Someone that controlls the environment, just in case. Imagine the phone or somebody at the door, etc.


    DMT is a very strong drug and almost any user is *very* motivated to use it again. Many regular users find it hard to keep 2 feet on the ground. Be carefull with it.
     
  2. User

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    yes sitters are definitly required. I had atleast 3 my first time. For anybody thinking of doing it be prepared.
     
  3. The One

    The One Newbie

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    DMT - n,n-DiMethylTryptamine. EXTREMELY intense, short acting psychedelic. IMHO, almost certainly the most profound substance on the face of the earth.


    DMT is usually vaporised in a freebase pipe. You need to take in a large amount of smoke & hold it in for a while to "break through" to the other side. This is easier said than done as the smoke tastes like burning plastic and can aggravate your lungs. It took me many attempts before I was able to "break through", the key for me being that I now only take 1 huge tokeand hold it until I drop out. Failure to inhale enough smoke will just make you feel weird for a bit and give some nice kaleidoscopic images in your minds eye.


    DMT is not active orally unless taken with a MAO Inhibitor like in the drink Ayahuasca. I've yet to try it in this form but it lasts a lot longer and Iam told that it incredible.


    I'm not even going to try and explain the "other side" as our language is inadequate. Common descriptions include a dimension that is more real than real, a feeling of dying and seeing the entire cosmos as a single entity. Trip reports vary widely and so do my personal experiences, best advice I can give is to "suck it & see". All of my experiences have had spiritual overtones and this substance has changed my belief system massively.


    Dr Rick Strassman has an excellent book about some legal studies that were done IV'ing DMT and the book has some great trip reports. The book, IMHO is biased around the authors own spiritual beliefs, but it is a great read.


    DMT has an ugly sister called 5 Methoxy-DMT. I don't really recommend this one though as I found it very scary and not at all insightful/useful/fun.Edited by: Alfa
     
  4. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    117 y/o from The Netherlands
    TIHKAL: #6. DMT

    DOSAGE : 350 mg (orally)
    60 - 100 mg (intramuscularly)
    60 - 100 mg (subcutaneously)
    60 - 100 mg (smoking)
    4 - 30 mg (intravenously)

    DURATION : Up to 1h

    QUALITATIVE COMMENTS : (with 150 mg, orally) "No observable psychic or vegetative effects."

    (with 250 mg, orally) "It was inactive."

    (with 350 mg, orally) "Completely without effect either physiological or psychological."

    (with 100 mg, via the buccal mucosa) "Numbness at the site, but no central effects."

    (with 20 mg, intramuscularly) "I began to see patterns on the wall that were continuously moving. They were transparent, and were not colored. After a short period these patterns became the heads of animals, a fox, a snake, a dragon. Then kaleidoscopic images appeared to me in my inner eye, fantastically beautiful and colored."

    (with 30 mg, intramuscularly) "There was eye dilation and, subjectively, some perception disturbances."

    (with 50 mg, intramuscularly) "I feel strange, everything is blurry. I want my mother, I am afraid of fainting, I can't breathe."

    (with 60 mg, intramuscularly) "I don't like this feeling -- I am not myself. I saw such strange dreams a while ago. Strange creatures, dwarfs or something; they were black and moved about. Now I feel as if I am not alive. My left hand is numb. As if my heart would not beat, as if I had no body, no nothing. All I feel are my left hand and stomach. I don't like to be without thoughts."

    (with 75 mg, intramuscularly) "The third or fourth minute after the injection vegetative symptoms appeared, such as tingling sensation, trembling, slight nausea, mydriasis, elevation of the blood pressure and increase of the pulse rate. At the same time, eidetic phenomena, optical illusions, pseudohallucinations, and later real hallucinations, appeared. The hallucinations consisted of moving, brilliantly colored oriental motifs, and later I saw wonderful scenes altering very rapidly. The faces of people seemed to be masks. My emotional state was elevated sometimes up to euphoria. At the highest point I had compulsive athetoid movements in my left hand. My consciousness was completely filled by hallucinations, and my attention was firmly bound to them; therefore I could not give an account of the events happening to me. After 3/4 to 1 hour the symptoms disappeared, and I was able to describe what had happened.

    (with 80 mg, intramuscularly) "My perceptual distortions were visual in nature and with my eyes closed I could see colored patterns, primarily geometrical patterns moving very fast, having sometimes very deep emotional content and connotation. My blood pressure went up and my pupils were dilated."

    (with 30 mg smoked) "I spread it evenly on a joint of Tanacetum vulgare and melted it with a heat lamp. In about 30 seconds a strong light-headedness starts, with a feeling of temporal pressure. Some yellowing of the visual field. There was nothing for me to do because I had to turn complete control over to the drug. Off the plateau in 3-4 minutes and the fact that the radio was on became apparent. I was out in a few more minutes."

    (with 60 mg smoked) "We did it together. Swift entry -- head overwhelmed -- elaborate and exotic. Slightly threatening patterns -- no insight -- slight sense of cruelty and sharpness between us, but enjoying. His face, as before with MDA, demonic but pleasantly so. He said he saw my face as a mask. He asked me to let him see my teeth. I laughed -- aware that laughter slightly not-funny. Heavy, massive intoxication. Time extension extraordinary. What seemed like 2 hrs was about 30 minutes."

    (with 60 mg smoked) "Rapid onset, and in a completely stoned isolation in about a minute for about three minutes. Slow return but continued afterglow (pleasant) for thirty minutes. Repeated three times, with no apparent tolerance or change in chronology. Easily handled. The intoxication is of limited usefulness but the residues are completely relaxing,"

    (with 100 mg, smoked) "As I exhaled I became terribly afraid, my heart very rapid and strong, palms sweating. A terrible sense of dread and doom filled me -- I knew what was happening, I knew I couldn't stop it, but it was so devastating; I was being destroyed -- all that was familiar, all reference points, all identity -- all viciously shattered in a few seconds. I couldn't even mourn the loss -- there was no one left to do the mourning. Up, up, out, out, eyes closed, I am at the speed of light, expanding, expanding, expanding, faster and faster until I have become so large that I no longer exist -- my speed is so great that everything has come to a stop -- here I gaze upon the entire universe."

    (with 15 mg, intravenously) "An almost instantaneous rush began in the head and I was quickly scattered. Rapidly moving and intensely colored visuals were there, and I got into some complex scenes. There were few sounds, and those that were there were not of anyone talking. I was able to continue to think clearly."

    (with 30 mg, intravenously) "I was hit harder that I had ever been when smoking the stuff. The onset was similar, but the euphoria was less."

    EXTENSIONS AND COMMENTARY : There is a staggering body of information on the subject of intoxicating snuffs and their use throughout the area of the Caribbean, the Amazon, and on to the west, past the Andes, in Colombia and Peru. The literature that has accumulated over the last forty or so years is fascinating, but extremely difficult to organize. The problem lies in deciding on which discipline shall dictate the hierarchy of classification. Does one organize by snuff name? But each different tribe will have a different name. Does one classify by the plants employed? This requires actual observation in the field, but a given plant may have several native names. And one snuff may use any of several different plants or plant combinations, depending on cultural tradition. To add uncertainty to this complexity, these traditions are being rapidly lost, with the eradication of folklore. So perhaps one should turn to the snuff itself, and classify according to the chemical composition. This is appealing in that there are many museum samples available, as well as a host of anthropological artifacts such as snuff trays and botanical residues that can be identified. But that is a luxury that requires the sophistication of the laboratory, and precludes any botanic assignment.

    No matter which system might eventually prove to be the best, the use of a chemical assignment of drug structure to the active components allows some form of clinical challenge to the native use in the field. DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are the mainstay chemicals in most snuffs, and can be introduced into the product from any of several plants.

    A major plant source for one of the best studied of the snuffs, cohoba, are the ground beans of the Piptadenia peregrina. There are two alternative generic names, Anadenanthera and Mimosa, which may represent the same, or similar, plants, but this is the stuff for battles between botanical taxonomists. There are several species in this classification, and the alkaloid content amongst them is most variable. With P. peregrina and P. macrocarpa, the major contents of the beans and their pods appears to be bufotenine, its N-oxide and the oxide of DMT. It may be only the pods of the seeds that contain the DMT. And the bark seems to be the major source of N-methyltryptamine, of 5-MeO-NMT (its 5-methoxy analogue) and of 5-MeO-DMT itself. The species P. colubrina has been reported to have bufotenine in its seeds as the only active component. This plant, in Argentina, occurs in only two major species P. macrocarpa and P. excelsa, and the composition seems to parallel that of the Amazonian counterparts. Other forms, (P. rigida, P. paraguayensis, and P. varidiflora), are without any alkaloid content.

    The native intoxicant search becomes even cloudier as one goes from snuff to decoction. There are several drinks, sometimes described as "narcotic" and sometimes as hallucinogenic or dream-inducing, that come from closely related plants. The roots of the acacia-like tree, Mimosa hostilis, are reputed to be the source of the drink jumera, or vihno de jurema. But the only alkaloid present, originally called nigerine, has proved to be DMT, and this is not orally active. There are pasture grasses, such as reed canarygrass, that can produce a central nervous system disruption in grazing sheep. Chemical analyses of these plants (such as Phalaris tuberosa, P. arundinacea, and P. aquatica ) have revealed the presence of alkaloids like DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, but these compounds require intravenous administration to duplicate the toxicity symptoms. The observation of 5-MeO-NMT being present does not help explain the toxicity. How can something that is not orally active be orally active? A possible explanation is the presence of another indole with a one-carbon shorter chain. This is gramine, or 3-(N,N-dimethylaminomethyl)indole which is synthesized in the plant with an entirely different set of enzymes. Its human pharmacology is not known. A related homologue, one carbon longer, is the three-carbon chain compound 3-[3-(dimethylamino)propyl]indole, produced by the Upjohn Company. It has been studied clinically under the code name U-6056, at levels of up to 70 milligrams in 10 subjects, by i.m. injection. There were no reports of visual, auditory or tactile disturbances. Physically, there was a slight increase in blood pressure anad pulse rate. Certainly there were no psychological effects.

    The drink ayahuasca is also a DMT-containing decoction, but the presence of some harmaline-containing plant is required to make it active by mouth. This area is discussed under harmaline, although there is some information to be found in the 5-MeO-DMT commentary section. And, there are several species of Acacia found in both Africa and Australia that contain DMT, but there is no native medical use that suggests psychotropic action. Most of this is part and parcel of the chapter, "DMT is Everywhere." Let's not repeat it here.

    In the early clinical studies of DMT and DET, frequent use was made of schizophrenic patients, in the belief that if these drugs imitate the mental disorder in normal subjects, the use of schizophrenic population might be especially informative, either through some enhanced response or a loss of effect. One clinical study with a group of female patients (with 1.0 or 1.5 mg/Kg DMT being administered, presumably by intramuscular injection) showed a delayed onset (doubling of time), a relative freedom from autonomic effects, and an absence of hallucinations. I truly admire the logic patterns that allow the construction of a research study that will have it either way. Positive effects, our hypothesis is supported. Negative effects, out hypothesis is supported. Do schitzys get better or do they get worse? See? We were right.

    A study conducted on 40 normals, this in Hungary some 30 years ago, found that the administration of 40 mg quantities to be symptom free. With several of the experimental subjects in this study, the DMT was preceded by the administration of 1-methyl-d-lysergic acid butanolamide (UML-491), a potent serotonin antagonist. This was given either orally (1-2 mg 30 to 40 minutes before) or intramuscularly (0.5 mg 10 minutes before). This served to greatly intensify the effects of the DMT, with intense and agitated hallucinations, highly intensified colors, and a more extreme loss of time and space perception. It was assumed that UML-491 was inactive, but recent trials indicate that there can be central effects produced. It is discussed in the entry for LSD.

    DMT is the only psychedelic tryptamine that has recently been taken through the Kafkaesque processes for approval for human studies (via the FDA, the DEA, and the other Health agencies of the Government) and is one of the few Schedule I drug that is being looked at clinically in this country today. It has been studied in New Mexico, in Albuquerque. The first published results of this study show a smooth grading of subjective effects as a function of injected dose. The lowest dose (i.v.) was 0.05 mg/Kg, about 4 milligrams, and it could not be distinguished from placebo. At 8 milligrams, there were the physical effects without the mental. At 15 milligrams (the threshold psychedelic dose) nearly all subjects had visual hallucinations, but the auditory changes were rare. At 30 milligrams, the effects were overwhelming both in speed and in intensity. The rush, the freight-train as several subjects call it, was well underway well before the 45 second infusion was complete. A study of repeated administrations of dosages of 16 mg i.v., at half-hour intervals, were made to explore the possible development of tolerance, showed that there was none observed.

    Thanks to the existence of ever-increasingly sensitive scientific instruments, the search of body fluids for possible psychedelics has brought forth a number that appear to be natural components of the human animal. DMT has been reported to be in the urine of schizophrenic patients, and so have 5-MeO-DMT, bufotenine, and its demethylated homologue N-methylserotonin. The levels are increased with the administration of monoamineoxidase inhibitors. A methylating enzyme has been found in blood, capable of forming DMT in plasma, and it is present in both normal subjects and schizophrenics. It is not surprising that studies comparing DMT blood levels between patients (psychotic depression, acute and chronic schizophrenia) and normal subjects have shown no differences.

    In the definition of DMT either as an endogenous psychotogen or, equally appealing, as a natural neurotransmitter, it would be desirable to show that the body does not build up tolerance to it (otherwise the psychotic would spontaneously repair, and the brain would spontaneously shut down). To address this, four subjects were given some 50 mg of DMT intramuscularly, twice daily, for 5 days. The blood levels that were achieved, and the picture of autonomic effects (both in mydriasis and in cardiovascular function) were not changed. No tolerance was seen. The psychological conclusions were a little bit less convincing. Several said that the "high" was diminished, but others seemed to feel a maintenance of subjective responses. The jury is still out on this one.

    The principal reason that DMT must be administer parenterally is its rapid and efficient metabolism. It can be oxidized to the N-oxide. It can be cyclized to b-carbolines, both with and without an N-methyl group. It can be N-dealkylated to form NMT and simple tryptamine itself. Best known is its oxidative destruction, by the monoamine oxidase system, to the inactive indoleacetic acid. There is a wild biochemical conversion process known for tryptophan that involves an enzymatic conversion to kynurenine by the removal of the indole-2-carbon. A similar product, N,N-dimethylkynuramine or DMK, has been seen with DMT, when it was added to whole human blood in vitro.

    Several simple substitution derivatives of DMT are known. Those that are known to be psychedelic have their own recipes, of course, but the others will be summarized here. The 1-methyl homologue of DMT (1,N,N-trimethyltryptamine) can be prepared from DMT in KOH and DMSO, with CH3I. It forms a picrate salt which melts at 175-179 °C, and bioxalate, mp 174-176 °C. It is more toxic than DMT in rats, but has an identical serotonin binding capacity. The compound with a methoxy group substituent at the 1-position is called Lespedamine, 1-MeO-DMT. With an NO bond, this should be classified as a substituted hydroxylamine. I would love to know if anyone anywhere has ever tried smoking it. I suspect it might very well be active, but it is, to my knowledge, untried. I wonder why it deserves a trivial name, vis., Lespedamine? Two additional ring-substituted derivatives of DMT come from the marine world. 5-Bromo-DMT and 5,6-dibromo-DMT are found in the sponges Smenospongia auria and S. echina resp. I have no idea if they are active by smoking (the 5-Br-DMT just might be) but they are quantitatively reduced to DMT by stirring under hydrogen in methanol, in the presence of palladium on charcoal. A very closely related sponge, Polyfibrospongia maynardii, contains the very closely related 5,6-dibromotryptamine and the corresponding monomethyl NMT. I had the fantasy of trying to scotch the rumor I'm about to start, that all the hippies of the San Francisco Bay Area were heading to the Caribbean with packets of Zig-Zag papers, to hit the sponge trade with a psychedelic fervor. This is not true. I refuse to take credit for this myth.

    The demethylated homologue is N-methyltryptamine (NMT) and it is also widely distributed in nature. It has a synthesis in an entry of its own.

    Both the N-hydroxy and the 2-hydroxy analogues of NMT are found in another legume Desmanthus illinoensis, but have not been pharmacologically evaluated. Another provocative mono-alkyl analogue of DMT is N-cyclopropyltryptamine, made from indole-3-oxalylchloride and benzyl cyclopropylamine with eventual hydrogenolysis of the benzyl group; mp 180-182. This compound, as with the 5-methoxy and the 7-methoxy counterparts, is a potent monoamineoxidase inhibitor, and it has also been reported to have hypoglycemic activity. The 2-methyl-homologue of NMT was made from 2-methyl-3-(2-bromoethyl)tryptamine and methylamine. This is 2,Me-DMT (or 2,N,N-TMT). Both it and tryptamine itself (T) have their own entries.

    Before this is closed, a couple of points need be made regarding nomenclature. Older literature uses alpha for the 2-position of the indole ring. Thus, alpha-methyltryptamine, in early literature, refers to the indole-2-methyl, not to a side-chain methyl derivative. Throughout TiHKAL, the numbers are devoted to the indole ring, and the alpha and beta terms to the side-chain. And the use of the letter N refers to the side-chain amino nitrogen atom. The pyrrole nitrogen is the indole position 1.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2006
    1. 3/5,
      Could use a summary/conclusion for less dedicated readers
      Jul 29, 2013
    2. 3/5,
      real good information
      Sep 1, 2008
    3. 4/5,
      great, thourough, and informative post
      Aug 11, 2006
  5. Eirias

    Eirias Gold Member

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    It is rarely found as a product of lab synthesis (i.e.
    synthetic), and almost always as a product of extraction from a natural
    source, typically Mimosa hostilis rootbark, or possibly something like
    Psychotria viridis leaves, Phalaris arundinacea or aquatica
    leaves/shoots, Virola theodora bark/sap, or Desmanthus illinoensis
    rootbark.
    It is somewhat powdery and white to off-white/tan to light
    yellow in it's purest state, but often is encountered
    semi-degraded/oxidized/less pure as a salmon orange/pink colour.
    It is often clumpy and waxy and has a pungent odor that could be
    described as "tryptamine-like", but is distinct from any other
    tryptamine (but IMO most similar to AMT). The odor "sticks" to
    things and lingers for quite awhile, especially if it is being
    smoked. Once you smell n,n-DMT, you will NEVER forget what it
    smells like. It definitely lacks the subtle "sweet" odor of
    5-MeO-DMT, but both could be described as smelling somewhat "plasticky".
    n,n-DMT is extremely rare on the "black market", and is
    typically limited to tight circles of 'entheophiles' who tend to be
    knowledgeable and rather experienced with psychedelics. These
    groups of entheophiles tend to be more common in areas with thriving
    "hip" or "progressive" or "alternative" countercultures, sometimes
    cented around a school or university. An example might be
    Berkeley, or Reed in Portland, but this demographic I am describing is
    merely an impression and is by no means an absolute-- it's quite
    possible that DMT will appear when and where you least expect it.
    Also, DMT and those who are familiar with it can often be
    encountered at festivals and gatherings such as outdoor PsyTrance
    events, Burning Man, and Rainbow Gatherings, but again this is by no
    means a rule.
    There are several important things which should be touched on in
    regard to proper vaporizing/smoking equipment and technique, "set and
    setting", extraction techniques, and proper storage of the substance,
    but these issues have been dealt with thoroughly on the Internet and a
    Google-type search should provide access to all the prerequisite
    information in these areas.
    One more thing-- be wary of people (knowingly or unknowingly)
    selling "DMT", which is actually not n,n-DMT but in fact 5-MeO-DMT or
    DPT, or even some other tryptamine. This confusion occurs due to
    the similarity of the substances' names and the fact that they are all
    often 'smoked', and because n,n-DMT is illegal and more rare than
    either 5-MeO or DPT, it is possible that you might be dealing with one
    of the above. Both the effects and the dosage levels of the
    aforementioned tryptamines are markedly different than n,n-DMT. Edited by: Alfa
     
  6. Dimitri

    Dimitri Gold Member

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    I found Shulgins doses far to high.

    I personally have a treshhold effect from 5 mg s of DMT (which is probably extracted from Mimosa Hostillis Root bark).

    Fun it gets from 10-20 with a short and very LSD like experience, but
    with a lot more strangeness and "alieness". It is (in my opinion) very
    enjoyable but also strong. You get a feeling where it can bring you.

    25-35 is getting less fun but more unbelievable and spiritual, at least
    extremely visual. I can still hold contact to reality, means: I am not
    COMPLETELY out, just getting far and back.

    A Dose higher than 45-50 mg(with tolerance from tripping the days
    before of course more -->55-60mg) get me to the breaktrough..The
    Hyperspace...Full blown everything with dwarfs and elfes singing songs
    :)
     
  7. Jaw Clenching

    Jaw Clenching Silver Member

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    I completely agree with the above post.



    Personally I would say that the doses for vaporized DMT (proper technique and device) would be along the lines of:



    Threshold 2-5mg

    Light 5-15mg

    Medium 15-30mg

    Strong 30-45mg

    Heavy 45mg+



    I'm still not clear on how people can inhale the vapors of more than
    about 50mg DMT at once. That's A LOT of vapor to inhale and I'm usually in
    another universe before I can even finish half!


    Edited by: Jaw Clenching
     
  8. raven3davis

    raven3davis R.I.P. Palladium Member R.I.P.

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    My history with DMT. My friend had been reading about DMT for several years. "The most powerful psychadelic in the World" is what it had been labeled. Naturally occuring throughout nature and in the human brain, this powerful hallucinogen produces a visionary state which one could only describe as "mind boggling." I remember the first few times my friend did this drug. After the trip, for an hour or so, all he could say was "OHH my God." No matter how much you study DMT, read experiences and trip reports, nothing can prepare you for the intensity at which this drug will propell you to a different universe. Honestly, if I had the time I could go on indefinitely about my DMT experiences. The trips are very often hard to integrate. To say the least, my friend was distraught after his first few experiences with this drug. He had experienced many altered states before, including mushrooms and LSD, but DMT was at the top of the mountain. After inhaling a few lungs full, the user is introduced to a very frimiliar, yet totally alien realm.


    My friend has only used natural DMT, always extracted from Mimosa Hostillis rootbark. It took him a while to figure out exactly how to extract it, but after a lot of reading, he found marsofolds TEK to be the best. It is very similar to other teks, but it uses simple items like vinegar and a crockpot to pull off the extraction. Also, a turkey baster is used toa large sepratory funnel is unnecessary. Check out Mars TEK in the forums called "easiest way to make DMT." My friend had been researching DMT since he was 15 years old and was astonished by the stories he read. Not suprisingly, DMT is nearly impossible to find on the streets unless you are in the "right circles." DMT can be anywhere from a waxy orange to a white crystalline powder. The waxy DMT is normally less potent and harsher on the lungs, so it is harder to get a breakthrough dose with it.


    Doses my friend has experimented with.
    1-10mg not tested
    10-15mg, mild trip, nice LSD/mushroom like visuals for a few minutes
    25mg - pretty strong trip but for my friend it normally isnt enough for a break through. The closed eye visuals start to get more defined at this point.
    35mg- this is when things start getting interesting. At this dosage my friend can consistently break through. With eyes closed my friend has been confronted by different entities and has traveled through space and time. This dose is the dose that leaves my friend thinking "OHH MY GOD" for a good time afterwards.
    40+mg - I think anything more than 40mg is a guaranteed breakthrough for anyone as long as you can get good hits and hold them in. Sometimes closed eye visuals and open eye visuals are indistingushable. This is when the elves start poking at you etc.
    The most my friend has experimented with was 59mg. This was a very strong trip and my friend was traveling through his life from the time he was a child to present to future. This all happend in seconds, then my friend was given a basket by a member of the !Kung.


    DMT can be taken orally via ayahuasca but must be taken with an MAOI. Mimosa hostillis root bark and syrian rue seeds make a good combo if you want to experiment with ayahuasca. My friend has given ayahuasca a few tries but always puked too soon to feel the effects. Next time he will probably take a cap of extracted DMT with some extracted MAOI from the syrian rue seeds. This oral DMT method of injestion is called pharmahuasca.


    To anyone thinking about trying DMT....do your research. DMT will find you, or you will have to find it by means of extraction. My friend was fed up with not being able to find DMT so he learned the extraction and preformed it. Good luck, hope this helps.
     
    1. 4/5,
      Thanks again for the glorious insights
      Jun 2, 2010
    2. 5/5,
      RIP raven3davis. Thank you for your insight.
      Jul 29, 2009
    3. 3/5,
      RIP
      Mar 14, 2009
  9. freemynd

    freemynd Silver Member

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    Disregard post :) I did his research!
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  10. Beeker

    Beeker Iridium Member

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    You are messing with a chemical that. at first use, will change your view on everything you know instantly.

    If you were stong with some western religion you will find you got tested and failed before you were even asked to question the logic.. You will gain instant goglike knowledge.

    you will be forced to do more then read comics and smoke pot to stand next to this force and if you feel the need to study DMT then you are working around godlike understanding meaning your journey has no end in this plane.

    Welcome to the most interesting abstract and strange subject there ever will be.
     
  11. Sigmundblake

    Sigmundblake Newbie

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    Dmt

    DMT sounds AMAZING, I have dedicated much time in the last year reading about it. I had learnt that he will not have to find DMT, but DMT will find him.
     
  12. Marsofold

    Marsofold Platinum Member

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    Most people find their first DMT trip to be an overwhelming experience. Wayyy stronger than LSD. Reactions range from wide-eyed awe to terror. The casual users find it too intense to repeat, while even true explorers are often humbled afterward for not having taken it seriously enough. NOT a party drug. Even experienced DMT trippers have a bit of trepidation just before the hit. I think of it as being shot out of a cannon onto another world. Back in 5 minutes, of course...
     
  13. Dr_H

    Dr_H Gold Member

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    I agree with Dimitri about Shulgins dosage being to high. Swim broke thru the first time with 20mg, and again at 25 and 30mg. Swim can hold his breath increadibly long and he thinks this is the key. It is all about how much is absorbed, or how much is destroyed durring the vaporizing. It is always best to start low and work up. Hold your breath as long as you can and remember "The dose is the poison".
     
  14. Sklander

    Sklander Silver Member

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    Re: NN DMT Basics

    Each SWIMMERS definition of "Breaking through" might be and mean a lot of different things...

    SWIM's experiences with the substance has been astounding... SWIM's highest does he believes was ~51mg and it took him to a place where he hopes only heaven can top... The clarity in the mind is the greatest euphoria of all...
     
  15. dancingbear

    dancingbear Titanium Member

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    Re: NN DMT Basics

    SWIM reckons, as done above, that the mg recommendations are not be taken as biblical, for each person is unique in reacting to the sacrament.

    I am looking forward to experimenting with DMT after having stopped using SSRI's and possibly, at some point, enhancing the experience with a MAOI.

    I have done DMT four times. It's been spectacular and humbling, but I am looking forward to a breakthrough experience, even if it makes him nervous beforehand.
     
  16. Yukio Mishima

    Yukio Mishima Newbie

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    Re: NN DMT Basics

    SWIM's dosage experience is as follows

    45 mg: I have never done less than this. It's a good dosage, not too crazy or intense. I am basically able to take everything in calmly and enjoy it. This is a good dosage to survey DMT land. Also, if you've had a bad trip, this is a good way to get your feet wet again without going too deep.

    50 mg: This is ideal for a strong trip. Things start to get wacky at this dosage, which means a lot of background movement and a major change in your surroundings relative to their normal state. It becomes harder to maintain coherent thought processes. Visuals are quite vivid. Entities begin to come out to play at this level.

    55 mg and up: utter derealization. Visuals become so intense that the environment scarcely resembles its normal conditions. The visuals can feel too intense, like they are burning SWIM's brain somehow. It becomes impossible to think clearly and sometimes SWIM forgets what has happened to him. He's usually too far gone to care, but there has been an exception in which SWIM experienced a very intense bad trip at this dosage(see DMT experiences thread). It is hard to control things at this dosage if they start to spiral because you're too far gone to use coping strategies. Good for the occasional trip when I am feeling brave, but wouldn't want to tempt fate everyday with it.

    This is all taking for granted that the smoker smokes the amount properly. I have smoked 50 and had a trip he guesses would be equivalent to 20 mg because he failed to hold the smoke long enough and/or smoked too slowly.
     
    1. 3/5,
      Good descricptions!
      Apr 16, 2007
  17. dancingbear

    dancingbear Titanium Member

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    Re: NN DMT Basics

    Good info.

    I have grown fond of vaporizing the DMT. He keeps getting better and better at it. It's an art form, or like a ritual.

    Last time, I felt like Gandalf with his DMT pipe, smoked a little dose (maybe 20-30 mg) and just sat back and enjoyed the perfect calmness and content of the outskirts of spiceland. It's beautiful, even at a low dose.
     
  18. Yukio Mishima

    Yukio Mishima Newbie

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    Re: NN DMT Basics

    It seems like 45 mg is necessary to break into anything resembling hyperspace. Low 40s might do it or they might induce an experience characterized by moderately distorted thoughts and visuals that I have to strain to notice. It's not the 'full' DMT experience. I have tried doses in the low 40s over the last few days and they're hit and miss. One time he'll break through and the next he won't.
     
  19. Sklander

    Sklander Silver Member

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    Re: NN DMT Basics

    Its all in how the flame is operated.

    SWIM just smoked what was eyed out to him as a very large dose and got two extremely deep breathes in before he no longer knew what he was doing or where he was at. Then, Jimi came on in his ear phones and the rest is history... Visuals and scenaries were portrayed more as a sound than a vision... As if One could hear what they were seeing... A truly humbling experience.
     
  20. raven3davis

    raven3davis R.I.P. Palladium Member R.I.P.

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    Re: NN DMT Basics

    SWIm thinks he figured the dmt experience out.

    Read up on Hinduism. Brahman, oum, yoga, meditation, sannyasi, dmt. I am beginning to believe these are all connected. DMT has done for swim what it has taken a whole life time for some people to achieve. Liberation from the body and mind, seeing the true essence of the cosmos and the universe. Before SWIM knew anything about Hinduism he saw Lord Shiva during several of his trips. Lord Shiva has a good and bad side. Lord Shiva has the ability to create and destroy anything. Smoking dmt brings SWIm to the cosmic dancer Shiva and many of his/her avatars or devas whatever you want to call them. I feel that someone/something is looking over us at all times. Not necessarily something we can personally relate to but only something we can comprehend by liberating our minds.

    We are all one and the same. Our mind just portrays the illusion that we are somehow unique and separate from everything else.

    "Brahman is beyond the senses, beyond the mind, beyond intelligence, beyond imagination. Indeed, the highest idea is that Brahman is beyond both existence and non-existence, transcending and including time, causation and space, and thus can never be known in the same material sense as one traditionally 'understands' a given concept or object."

    I am very interested in Hinduism. Anyone else follow Hinduism/Brahmanism? Can You relate a DMT trip to the concept of Brahman?

    AUUUUM