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Addiction - Need help with phenibut withdrawal

Discussion in 'Nootropics' started by manifroschie, May 18, 2013.

  1. manifroschie

    manifroschie

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    Hi Guys,
    Long story short I had no interest in getting high with phenibut. I’m a gym rat and enjoy experimenting with supplements, and ive read the stories about phenibut withdrawal online and thought they were over exaggerated. I was experimenting with nootropics and thought Id give naughty phenibut a try and lo and behold it blew my mind. Im currently on 3g a day habit for at least 4 weeks. I plan to taper down to 1g for 3 days then 500mg 3 day then 250mg 3 days.


    My question is what should I use to land this air plane... I have access to kava, lyrica and xanax.


    Can someone give me correct dosing for the kava, lyrica and xanax for correct withdrawal dosing.




    The sad thing is im working the girl of my dreams and I have to withdrawal around her everyday and words of encouragement or advice would be welcome.
     
  2. 2hung

    2hung Mercury Member

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    Look at my most recent post titled "Phenibut How Long".

    Its in other drugs. A guy told me that i have a decent taper laid out and theres some decent knowledge there, have you done much reading around? Are u still getting high off it or just maintenance?
     
  3. manifroschie

    manifroschie

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    Aye 2hung, so far im into day 2 of my taper, ive went from 4g couple weeks to 1g for two days in a row.
    Im watch to see how things go, yesterday was the first day of my taper and after 6-8 hours of my last dose i experienced pretty strong withdraw symptoms which lasted a few hours then went away, extreme anxiety where i was just laying in bed feeling like i was going to die, body temperature fluctuations, lasted about 3 hours and strangely went a away without re-dosing. Ive been using kava to take the edge off and it seems to be working well. I just wondering when I should discontinue the phenibut and use the Lyrica instead. My sleep is really light so far and i keep waking up after two hours of light sleep...
     
  4. 2hung

    2hung Mercury Member

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    You've dropped your dose far too quickly mate, id go back to 3g and taper a bit slower maybe by a gram every 3 days and adjust as needed, youve dropped your dose by 75% in one day. How is your dose spread out over the day? I'm on 2g a day myself and i have it in the evening so i can sleep at night.I would save whatever meds and kava/kratom you have until you start to see the withdrawals at the lower doses. For now id increase your dose back to maybe 3,500mg or 3,000mg and stay there for 2-3 days. then drop by a gram see how your feeling. If you start to withdraw bring it up by about 500mg and stay there for 2-3 days and bring it down as slow as you feel is necessary. I'm a bodybuilder myself i see your a gym rat too, have u found its affected your training at all? i was getting sick pumps from the stuff.

    2hung added 1 Minutes and 49 Seconds later...

    also, make sure to have your dose at the exact same time every single day, don't fluctuate it, this way your brain gets used to it. well thats from personal experience so far. I take it at 7pm and i do start to feel anxiety/withdrawals around 5-6 but i wait till 7 to dose, and im chilled the fuck out by 9 o'clock, not recreationally chilled out, but back to myself atleast.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  5. manifroschie

    manifroschie

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    Hahah thanks for your reply, yeah i think you maybe right about tapering too quickly, yeasterday I only did 1g in the morning then around 5 - 6 hours I went into a withdrawal. was quite strange all of a sudden i felt sleepy and thought oh good ill take a nap, i lay down and had the worse panic attack i ever had in my life LOL, i had trouble breathing and mega pressure on my chest, I thought Id endure it for a while and it went away after 3 hours LOL. Sleep been really light, seems kava helps taking a ton of gaba and other OTC sleep aids, but only getting very light sleep and waking up on the hour.

    working out on the stuff is amazing, i don't get early onset fatigue of doing too many reps because some how it keeps your body relaxed and it seems your heart doesn't race. I love it.

    I think im going to slow my taper and go back up to 3g day to start, then every week lower it 500mg. Im working with the girl of my dreams now and I dont want to blow up because of some withdrawal LOL.

    Ill keep the team posted, but I'm curious if i should use the Lyrica, how and when during the taper or if its required at all...

    I swear when I get off this stuff Ill never abuse it again... I was in the best health of my life, and now im drug addicted lol.
     
  6. 2hung

    2hung Mercury Member

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    So funny im in the exact same boat, dating this unbelievable hooters chick who i can only describe as a solid 9/10. Don't want to start going out of my mind withdrawing around her. Get some benadryl for sleep. I wouldn't taper that long either try do it swiftly but not too quick, but don't leave it too long either as tolerance can really build up quickly and leave u pretty much fucked. Again id use the lyrica when you start seeing the WDs full on. Not too sure about lyrica myself. I am using vyvanse during the day to keep me awake as the small dose i am on compared to what i was isn't giving me the best sleep. What sort of phenibut are u using? And what is your dosing schedule?
     
  7. manifroschie

    manifroschie

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    SNS Phenibut XT @ 500mg each. I take 2 in the morning then 2 in the afternoon.
    Im going to try this taper:
    3 days @ 2g
    3 days @ 1.5
    3 days @ 1
    3 days @ 500mg
    then kick in the Lyrica, i dont have too much but enough for a good week.
    I tell you how it goes.
     
  8. 2hung

    2hung Mercury Member

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    Good luck mate, hope it goes well
     
  9. manifroschie

    manifroschie

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    Hey Hung,
    Well Ive been keeping it at 3.5g a day and haven't been able to commit to a taper.
    i had 2 amazing days at work and hate to give it up just yet. The good news is I am going to commit to a consistent dosing schedule @ 3.5 and roll with that for few more days, but why ruin a good thing?
    LOL Cheers! Ill update the team if i have a change of heart, but for now the party isnt over LOL
     
  10. Moving Pictures

    Moving Pictures Titanium Member

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    For the past twenty some days, I've taken it (phenibut) 1-3 times daily, like 2 to maybe 5 grams. There was only two or three days I didn't take it and I used Lyrica instead. Absolutely no withdrawals were felt. I feel Lyrica is interchangeable with phenibut. 2 things: I don't know if the lyrica is actually doing anything besides just preventing the withdrawals in the way that benzos prevent alcohol withdrawals, I'm not actually tapering is what I want to say and 2. I take, from what I understand, to be rather high doses of Lyrica. I consider 900mg to be a medium dose.

    I went fri/sat/sun/most of mon without any phenibut, it was really bad, constant anxiety. Wasn't as bad as I thought it would be though and I started feeling midly better by monday but I ended up using it again.

    I took the last of it today but I'm getting some clorazepate tomorrow so that should do the trick, hopefully.

    This stuff is terribly physically addicting and I don't find it all that amazing. I mean, it helps with anxiety and is great for sleep but it's not as effective as benzos for me and the addiction is way worse. 20 days coming off this shit felt like 6 months coming of clonazepam.

    The only safe way to use this stuff is like 3 days on and 3 days off. Other than that, the physical addiction risk is just totally not worth it.
     
  11. snarkymalarky

    snarkymalarky

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    I can definitely empathize with phenibut being more physically addicting than it's worth. I've been stuck on about 1-1.5 grams a day for 6 months or so. I just don't have the will to taper, I don't know why, probably because it's so cheap and easily available. Anyway, in the past I've had daily phenazepam and etizolam habits (not at the same time, separately), and those were a piece of cake to stop compared to phenibut. It's really quite insidious.
     
  12. 2hung

    2hung Mercury Member

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    Is it still working for you after 6 months? I am on 2g per day and i feel withdrawals around mid afternoon, this could be amps withdrawals tho as i have been on a bit of a amp binge this last week.
     
  13. Havingthngs

    Havingthngs Newbie

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    I was on Phenibut for about three weeks, and had a helluva time coming off. Took between 500mg and 2gm every day, until I just stopped completely.
    I had horrible anxiety, panic attacks, and the belief that I was going to die was intense. It was like my brain was telling my body that things were really wrong with it and I was believing it. Also had muscle spasms and twitches, insomnia, significant weight loss, social withdrawal accompanied by a little paranoia. The majority lasted for the first 24 hours from the last dose I took, but for about four days I would have surges of panic and paranoia, shortness of breath, and fear. I was able to sleep for maybe an hour or two at most, and if I just laid down with my eyes closed it seemed to take away some of the psychological effects for a while. I didn't have any cravings for it, thank God, but my brain and body went haywire for a time. I have since realized that the dosing recommendations that are prevalent on the Internet and even on the supplement bottle are exaggerated in my opinion. After a few weeks of not using, I tried about 10 mg (bestimate) and I got just enough relief from social anxiety, and didn't have the "hangover" the next day. Still am not gonna use it for longer than a day here and there. I think it has friendship to offer, but man, it definitely is a long-distance relationship kind of way!
     
  14. Moving Pictures

    Moving Pictures Titanium Member

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    I don't mean to hijack this thread with my experience but I want to say that today, I didn't have any at all. I've taken 30 mg of clorazepate and 1800 mg of gabapentin and while I'm not as calm as i should be, I don't feel bad at all.

    Like I said, for about 20 days, with the exception of 2 or 3 days that I took lyrica instead, I was taking 2-5 grams a day. Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and most of Monday, I didn't take any and only took vistaril for anxiety. It was really, really rough but the Vistaril made it just bareable, I never had a full blown freak out panic attack, I thought I was going to but it never got that bad. Then Monday evening and Tuesday I took maybe 1.5 grams each day. Today no phenibut but the clorazepate and gabapentin and I feel pretty much okay. 8/10. Mainly just like a average kinda anxious day. I wouldn't be having that kinda day usually with the benzos and the gabapentin I took but for the phenibut withdrawals, but I'm doing fine really.
     
  15. 2hung

    2hung Mercury Member

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    Gabapntn is supposedly the shit for pbt wd! I'm still on my 2g per day going up to 4 for the weekend tho and back to 2 for the last week of use before taper
     
  16. Sovereignty

    Sovereignty Silver Member

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    Keep in mind that phenibut is an agonist for the GABAb while benzos like xanax target GABAa. I'd recommend tapering off the phenibut like you said (though I'd suggest tapering a little slower than you're planning), and to use pure GABA supplements if you need to.

    Of the drugs you mentioned having access to, kava is easily your safest option. I think the best way to take it would be to start using it while you're tapering off the phenibut since kava has somewhat of a reverse tolerance. Kava doesn't seem to work on similar receptor sites to phenibut but it will still help with anxiety and is obviously much safer than benzos in regards to addictive potential. Here's an article from a medical journal that might interest you if you decide to use Kava-



    Kava, an intoxicating beverage prepared from the pepper plant Piper methysticum, is widely consumed by the indigenous peoples in the islands of the South Pacific. As the first of a series of studies on the neuropharmacological interactions of kava with CNS receptors we tested purified pyrones and kava resin for activity on GABA and benzodiazepine binding sites in rat and mouse brain membranes. Only weak activity was observed on GABAA binding sites in washed synaptosomal membranes prepared from rat brain and this was abolished by extraction of the membranes with Triton X-100, suggesting that lipid soluble components were involved. No effects were observed on GABAB binding sites in rat brain membranes in vitro. Kava resin and pyrones exerted some weak effects on benzodiazepine binding in vitro but this did not correlate with pharmacological activity. In addition, in ex vivo studies, no effects were observed on [3H]diazepam binding to brain membranes prepared from mice in which selected kava constituents were injected intraperitoneally, whereas similarly administered diazepam (5 mg/kg) inhibited [3H]diazepam binding by greater than 95%. Similar lack of activity was observed in in vivo binding studies; injection of kava resin failed to influence the CNS binding of the benzodiazepine-receptor ligand [3H]Ro15-1788 injected into mice prior to sacrifice. The pharmacological activities of kava resin and pyrones do not appear to be explained by any significant interaction with GABA or benzodiazepine binding sites.

    from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1332016
     
  17. 2hung

    2hung Mercury Member

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    How much kava would be needed for this?
     
  18. Moving Pictures

    Moving Pictures Titanium Member

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    I'm aware that benzos target GABAa and phenibut GABAb, but I used clorazepate and gabapentin the first two days and have used just clorazepate everday since 7.5 mg twice a day. It's been 5 almost 6 days without any phenibut. My sleep is shitty and I feel more anxious than I should but with just the low dose of benzos I'm taking, I think I'm doing really well compared to how the withdrawals were when i had nothing besides anti-histamines. I never did a taper with the phenibut either. I'd try to, I'd try only taking like 1 gram when I woke up but by the after noon, my heart would be racing and I'd be panicking so I'd take another 2 or more grams to make it stop.

    Terribly physically addictive. Terribly. I will probably get some again but I will not be using it daily. No more than 3 days in a row. Now that I am prescribed benzos again for my anxiety, I don't need to take phenibut daily. It stops working for the most part anyway after a week or so.
     
  19. manifroschie

    manifroschie

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    Hi Guys, Just a quick update from my side, I had a terrible weekend and binged on phenibut and booze all weekend. Last nigh was the most terrible experience I ever had with phenibut ever. I wasn’t sure if it was withdrawals or overdose or hangover but I was up all night... I was afraid to re-dose because I want sure how much I already took because I was boozing all day so I took 5oomg every 3 or 4 hours just to be safe. The only way I can describe it is D&D spell crushing despair. The anxiety was through roof, I thought for sure I was going to die of a heart attack stroke or seizure. Also had these mental zaps all night where Id lose complete control of my hand for split second, and drop my phone or my mind would slip for a second... scary stuff, I suspect small seizures. I didn’t realize it could get this bad. Im so scared now I’m going to use this as a turning point of my life. If tonight is as bad as it was last night I’m try to go to urgent care and ask for something to take to get me through this... this is bad bad stuff guys.. im never use it again once I taper off... :( Also i forgot to mention my blood pressure was all the way up to 170 last night.
     
  20. Moving Pictures

    Moving Pictures Titanium Member

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    Well first off, stay away from alcohol. Second, have you tried either that kava, pregabalin, or alprazolam like you talked about in your first post?

    You may need to use a low dose of phenibut and either the kava (which I know absolutley nothing about, except that it's mild compared to pregabalin or Xanax), the pregabalin, or the benzo.

    What kind of doses of the Lyrica and Xanax do you have? Are you still at 3.5 grams a day of the phenibut? It sounds like you had a massive panic attack last night. I imagine the alcohol had a role to play as well. Stay away from it.

    I think you should try taking lower doses of phenibut in combo with one of the other tranquilizers you have and see how that works.
     
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