New rule: staff actions and directives

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Alfa, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    While IMHO this should be common sense, it was needed to add the following to the rules:

    Staff Actions and Directives

    If you have a problem with or question about a moderator’s decision, open up a support ticket. Posts or topics discussing moderator actions will be removed.
    If a staff member takes an action or posts a directive (for example, to stop with a particular topic), you must adhere to this. If you discover a directive only after you’ve posted a message that contravenes it, report your post or it will be taken to be ignoring moderators.

    The rules have been updated accordingly.

    Please mind that we are still open to community feedback about general rules and protocol. The above is mainly intended to avoid counterproductive, butt-hurt, and pointless posts.
     
    1. 5/5,
      A well thought out and clear announcement regarding the correct way of addressing grievances here.
      Nov 11, 2017
  2. TheBigBadWolf

    TheBigBadWolf Imperial Wizzard Gold Member Donating Member

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    Realistic approach after Far too often Staff decisions (moderation) were discussed in the forum. Thanks for the rule clarification, it makes it easier to report threads/posts.
    It must be clear that the rules arent there for being annoying to members but for making the forum function and save the existence of our big private (!) Website and they are to be abided to.
    It couldnt go on that members chose by daily mood whether they follow a rule today or wouldnt.

    Thank you. This is a very thoughtful addition.
    BBW
     
    1. 4/5,
      Good supporting post from a member in the know.
      Nov 15, 2017
  3. missparkles

    missparkles If you like crazy you've come to the right place. Platinum Member & Advisor Donating Member

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    Like the Wolf boy ;-) I agree that people need to realise that the mods don't just make arbitrary decisions and that they're well thought out responses that are guided by the rules that we all agreed to follow before we were allowed to join this site. Mods don't do anything just to piss people off, they have far too much work to do to be able to deal with the fallout that would ensue. We have such fair and unbiased mods here at DF, now, unlike in the "Old Days" when certain mods would make decisions based on their either liking, or disliking, a poster, a post or a specific idea that the OP was trying to convey. No one plays favourites now and that's the way it should be. It doesn't just have to be fair it has to be seen to be fair, too.

    Sparkles. XXX
     
  4. nomoremommyfood

    nomoremommyfood Titanium Member

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    Back on subject, I really like what @TheBigBadWolf and @missparkles wrote about decisions not being arbitrary. Nor are decisions or the rules themselves intended to confuse members, enforce an exclusivity, or attack new members.

    I'd like to reiterate that rules and admin action are also important in direct messages - an area where even studious new members get confused. A friendly reminder that rules are for the safety of the site and not personal can both ensure potentially thoughtful members the chance to learn from unintended mistakes and avoid unfair situations. I've received a number of messages from members upset about the rules and their enforcement and - especially when I've reached out to newbies for a greeting or to help - feeling stuck in the middle is awkward.

    Most important, anything that reminds users of the rules is awesome! I cherish that DF provides a direct conduit to directly help drug users in need through harm reduction; I really feel like I can make a difference in the life of someone who may not have other resources. Every drug user I know trusts this site for accurate information and I believe it's equally as effective as harm reduction organizations in my city.

    While we have more than our share of "Answer my question now!" posts (particularly in the heroin and opioids forums), we also have new posters who start out shaky then find their legs over the course of time. Whether posting a few times and disappear or contributing their voice to multiple threads, anything that causes uninformed members to read the rules is fantastic in my book.
     
  5. 999333

    999333 Silver Member

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    The whole reason I joined this site is because of the open minded, relevant and honest information and articles, as well as the lack of trolling and unnecessary comments some people feel they have to post on other sites that dont have such rules in place and enforced.
     
    1. 5/5,
      Succinctly states why many people come to site and remain. Eloquently put.
      Thanks for this.
      Nov 29, 2017
  6. Didier

    Didier Newbie

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    Probably the semantic difference between Need, Want and Like!
     
  7. Sushi

    Sushi Signals From 93 Dimensions Gold Member

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    Well, I beg to differ... I honestly respect and cultivate the rules of our forum... they promote sensible and polite discussions, not just prevent flaming and bullshit postings, however, and I consider myself rather legitimate and objective enough to present this votum separatum of sorts: in January I celebrated 9 years of my DF's membership, I'm Gold Member since... 2013?, idk, 376 posts, zero infractions, and just 3 times neg repped, no more than 1 red square each... All 3 were reported, as 2 cases were questionable to say the very least, maybe just 1 was somewhat deserved, I agree, still also this 1 too could have been disputable. Therefore, I reported all 3... 1st = no reply whatsoever. 2nd = rubunked. 3rd = no reply again. Eventually I concluded it's preferable to don't give a fuck, and it happened many years ago, now I have not a single reason to care, let alone to bare any grudge, however, 1:3 ratio just looks bad to me, because it seems that mods fullfill their job with 33% effectiveness. Really, if this the median indeed... the result is poor, well, let's say, it's "average". Nevertheless, it's enough to provoke public discussions about reputation in some... What's more I witnessed people being neg repped first, and afterwards neg repped for the 2nd time, for expressing opinions about their reputation points in the same or in some other thread. It's not exactly fair, imho. Just my 2 cents. Think about it for a while...or 2, please;)
    Yours truly -
    Sush
     
  8. aemetha

    aemetha Sexy Potato Palladium Member Donating Member

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    I would have to confess to a few instances of frustration in lack of responses from moderators. Generally I don't have a problem with receiving negative reputation, but I need explanation often because the comments are very limited at times. I don't see value in negative reputation comments and warnings unless it directs me to change my posting accordingly, which I think I have done in those instances. I'm really very literal and I have trouble dealing with issues without explanation. If someone says I am condescending for example I need to know what about what I said was condescending because I generally don't set out to be that way. The most frustrating thing for me is when someone says something but doesn't explain why. I need to take things apart and see the nuts and bolts to understand things.

    That being said, the times I have experienced frustration have often later been explained to me by things that were going on in the background that I was not aware of. I don't find fault in the staff for not being able to respond in those instances, nor do I expect them to respond to everything I ask, because I ask a lot of things. I can say that @Shampoo @Phenoxide @Phungushead and especially @Alfa and @Smeg have all taken time to respond to my queries at various times and I definitely appreciate that, especially given the demands on their time.

    I do have a suggestion. Perhaps a new level of moderator could be added empowered to just do the less controversial aspects of the role, such as moving threads to the correct forums etc. There are plenty of members who would seem in good standing and willing to help out (and no, I'm not fishing for it. I'm the first to admit I am not at all suitable for any such roles). I won't name names because @Alfa is well aware of who those people are. It might be a good way to free up the time of the more existing moderators, and begin introducing new people to the role for future planning. Anyway, as always, just a suggestion.
     
  9. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    IMO if anyone has 376 posts and only 3 negative ratings then their posts have not been rated enough.

    You are talking about ratings from 2009, 2011 and one in 2016. The first you have reported several times and the report was denied each time. When a report was denied on the old site then a standard DM was automatically sent to the reporter. But honestly its so long ago that I am not sure. On the old site we had limited functionality. At the current site we at least have the possibility to write a line of text to the reporter. Anyway, your reports have been discussed by the staff before a discussion was made.

    If you would know that massive amount of work that we go through at high speed, then you would be amazed. Really, whenever I log in here at any time I see that a moderator has just done 50 - 300 moderator actions over the course of a few hours. Trust me that its insane and goes to the point that we end up with CTS. If it was much less then it would be reasonable to send an explanation by DM. But trust me when I say that a DM is in many cases not a good way to handle reports because with ratings it very often ends up in endless debate when people find it hard to accept a low rating.

    I have just gone through all your ratings and corrected them according to the current rating guidelines. This means that the ratings that state a post has problems is corrected to downwards, while ratings that were neutral but stated your posts where good or excellent were corrected upward. I hope this does not upset you as you now have a few more negative ratings that could bother you. But on the other hand a very large number of neutral ratings now have been corrected to represent the high quality it should. :) I can see why one may feel underappreciated when many of the ratings for great posts were neutral with a positive comment.

    Not giving a fuck because less than 1% of your posts was rated low seems odd to me. Not everything you write can be 5 stars. Obvious a lot of what you have posted is rated highly.
    Actually this is as it should be. When people take a low rating personal and blow up in a thread, this is derailing and not constructive. They can report a rating and it will be looked at. We will handle the report and see if its valid according to the rating guidelines or not.
    This is indeed a consideration.

    I also have another plan, but as always it takes investment. I'd like functionality so that members can report and select the problem and the actions that need to be taken. For example 'thread is in wrong forum' and needs to be moved to forum X. Then give the moderator a button to click 'handle according to member instructions' which would move the thread to forum X.

    This would also give us a clear view of the most urgent things to handle. Now we just see a long list of reports, without indication of urgency.
     
  10. the elusive eye

    the elusive eye Mrs. Potato Head Titanium Member Donating Member Sponsor

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    from elsewhere...where else?
    my only concern with something like this would be that the reporting member correctly suggested the thread be moved, but suggested the wrong destination forum...or incorrectly suggested the thread be moved at all. without the mod actually verifying the content of the thread, it could lead to a bit of minor chaos as things get shuffled around...if it's at all likely that some members will post in the wrong forum (as obviously already occurs with some regularity), then it's just as likely that other members will wrongly ask a thread to be moved. don't want to make more work for the mods when they have to start moving the same threads twice (or more).
     
  11. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    Moderators will always verify the validity of the report. There are very few members who will report with 100% accuracy.
     
  12. aemetha

    aemetha Sexy Potato Palladium Member Donating Member

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    Could this be worked in to the reputation system too? I see a lot of posts repped for things like being in the wrong forum, but it doesn't look like they are being reported for moving as well. If rep preset comment also prompted for the correct forum it could save some work and doubling up of moderator actions - one button to approve both the rep comment and moving the thread.
     
  13. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    While it is my goal to eventually have a tight integration between reputation and reports, its currently two completely separated systems.
    Yet, when someone rates a post for a rule breach this obviously needs to result in a report. And when multiple ratings are given for serious types of rule breaches (spam, flaming, dealing, etc) the post obviously needs to be sent to moderation.

    Mind that a member who wants to quickly rate a post, might not be interested in selecting the proper forum from a massive drop down.