Experiences - New to Kratom--is nausea and headache normal? Will fatigue ever wear off?

Discussion in 'Kratom' started by WaitingforHealing, Mar 10, 2015.

  1. WaitingforHealing

    WaitingforHealing Newbie

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    I have debilitating chronic pain, 24/7. Currently taking prescribed hydrocodone and benzos to manage the pain. But just heard about Kratom and want to be use something more natural.

    I ordered 4 samples: Bali Red, Red Vein Thai, Ultra Red Indo, Bali PC

    First dose was Bali PC upon waking, empty stomach, 4 grams, took the pain away, but I was so tired I couldn't get out of bed all day. Is this normal and does the fatigue wear off? I'd like to be functional, but pain relief is my top priority.

    Second and third dose were also Bali PC in the evening before bedtime. I took 3 grams on empty stomach, but ate immediately afterward. I took the benzos that I am addicted to (will work on weaning off of them). As before, the Kratom took the pain away, but the nausea and headache were so overpowering I found it impossible to sleep. I've never taken illegal drugs or any opiates other than the hydrocodone I'm now taking.

    My question is the same--does the nausea and headache pass with time? Is this just a normal introduction to Kratom? Should I be taking a lower dose? Anything to do to avoid the nausea/headache?

    Oh- and I bought the kratom powder, so just taking with a little applesauce (not tea or anything).

    Thank you for your help.
     
  2. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Have you stopped taking your medication?
    If so then the symptoms you are describing sound like withdrawals.

    Some people do feel nausea from kratom.
    The unlucky people get it regardless of what type. Some people only get it from certain strains or vein colours and some people only get it from taking it certain ways (i.e. tea, toss and wash) Some people only suffer with nausea when they are new to kratom and some people never experience it at all.

    Headaches could be from dehydration or possibly from taking too much kratom but it is not a very common side effect.

    Red vein strains can be quite sedating although i can't imagine 4 grams keeping you fatigued and in bed all day, that sounds more like a withdrawal symptom from stopping opiates.

    Make sure that your vendor is respected within the kratom community. Do not go by any reviews on their own site, they can post what they want after all. Do plenty of research on them with google.
    Bad quality kratom could cause unwanted side effects.
     
  3. WaitingforHealing

    WaitingforHealing Newbie

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    Wow...it never occurred to me that it could be hydrocodone w/d. THANK YOU!! I have continued to take it, BUT, I didn't take it on the morning and evenings that I took the kratom.

    I've been through benzo w/d (hell), so I know what that is like. Never been through opiate w/d and know nothing about it.

    I want to take the kratom in place of the hydrocodone, and eventually in place of the benzos. I can deal with the headache, nausea and fatigue if it's only for a week or so and gets easier day by day. I know everyone is different, but now I need to decide whether to go cold turkey and deal with the hydrocodone w/d symptoms or whether I should taper down the hydrocodone. the two questions I now have are:

    1. How long does opiate w/d usually last? I've been on this hydrocodone for a few months. 30 mg daily.

    2. If I decide to taper, are there any recommended schedules? (i.e. do I take the 3 mg of kratom along with 20 mg of hydrocodone for a week, then cut to 10 mg the next week, etc; or would I start with a lower dose of kratom and work up?). I have no idea how to do this.
     
  4. baselined

    baselined Titanium Member

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    I would think that the kratom would be able to mask most of the hydrocodone withdrawals completely, but I suppose if its poor quality kratom or perhaps just your body chemistry that could be causing the withdrawals. Like Ian said, its unlikely 4 grams would keep you in bed all day.

    The nausea should pass as you get use to the kratom, and I think taking it with a bit of food (like applesauce) should help ease any stomach discomfort. I can get headaches from kratom, but it is more strain/quality dependent. Lower quality kratom and/or thai strains give me headaches. Everyone is different with kratom, so best to try the different types and see what suits you best.

    As Ian said, do your homework on your vendor. Know that anything they say are their site should be taken with a grain of salt. Try finding unbiased reviews. https://drugs-forum.com/threads/200101 that is a good place to learn how to find quality vendors.

    As for the withdrawal, like I said kratom should mitigate at least some of the withdrawal. You haven't be using too long or in too high of a dose, but its hard to say just how long the withdrawal symptoms will last. If you taper, they will be easy to handle, but if you cold turkey the worst of them will last about a week, with some lingering symptoms for probably another couple of weeks.

    How you want to taper is up to you. You schedule sounds like a pretty good idea, but it would be helpful to know what your current dosing regime for hydrocodone is: i.e. what times of the day, how many doses a day, mgs of each dose, etc. Keep in mind you want to space the hydrocodone and kratom apart because they will synergize with each other.

    Keep in mind kratom is still addictive, but arguably way less addictive than opiates/opioids.

    Glad you are finding kratom helps with your pain!
     
  5. WaitingforHealing

    WaitingforHealing Newbie

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    Thank you for the link on how to research vendors. I have felt lost in that area. That will be helpful.

    Hydrocodone: I take 10 mg at 6:30 a.m. and 20 mg at 5 p.m.

    Could you explain what you mean about spacing the hydrocodone and kratom apart because of synergy? I was thinking of taking them at the same time--i.e. 5:00 p.m. 10 or 15 mg Hydrocodone and 1 gram of Kratom--introducing one, while lowering the other, but at the same time. Is that a bad idea?

    I think I might have jumped the gun in saying I could do cold turkey. I think I could...but I think I'd rather not. So if you or anyone can suggest a sample taper schedule, that would be oh so helpful.
     
  6. baselined

    baselined Titanium Member

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    In such low doses, I wouldn't really see too much of a problem with 10mgs of hydrocodone and 1-2 grams of kratom. When combining downers, the problem is a resulting increase in respiratory depression. Considering you have been on a steady dose of the hydro's and kratom doesn't have the same degree of effect on respiratory depression as opiates/opioids, it's probably okay.

    Like I said, how you want to taper is up to you. Only you can tell how your body is reacting to the changes you are making to it. If it were me, I wouldn't think that 30mgs a day of hydro would be too bad to just "jump off" from and completely replace with kratom. However, it seems your body is not as keen on that.

    Maybe try some different strains too. 4 grams is on the heavier side for somebody new to kratom, plus bali (aka borneo) is known to be rather sedating, so perhaps not great for a morning dose. Personally, I find green malay to be my favorite strain. A little sedating in higher doses and a little stimulating in lower doses, but not too much of either. Again, find a site that offers multiple strains (and one you did your research on to confirm quality) and order some sample packs and see what works for you.

    As for taper, if it were me, I would try to first replace my morning dose. Since you take 20mgs of hydrocodone at night, there is likely still some in your system and you probably wouldn't start feeling any withdrawal symptoms till at least 24 hours after your last dose. So instead of 10mgs in the morning, try 2 grams of quality kratom and adjust the dose accordingly (perhaps you need more, but it sounds like 4 grams was too much). Then try lowering the nightly dose by 5mgs at a time, taking as long as you feel you need per drop, and adding a gram of kratom as you feel you need for pain.
     
  7. WaitingforHealing

    WaitingforHealing Newbie

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    Thank you baselined. Do you know if green malay works on pain? (I know, I'll need to try it to see if it works for me). I just heard the red strains were better known for working on pain. Wondering what your experience has been.

    And to clarify, at night, I might be taking 25 mg of hydrocodone and 1 gram of kratom--at the same time, and continue dropping hydrocodone and adding kratom as I am able. Did I get that right?

    WaitingforHealing added 11 Minutes and 48 Seconds later...

    Baselined, sorry to bother you--but in this post you said to space the hydrocodone and kratom apart. Then in the other post it seems like you are saying it is ok to take them at the same time, as long as I'm increasing the kratom and decreasing the hydrocodone.

    Could you clarify. I'm sorry if I'm asking you to repeat yourself :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2015
  8. baselined

    baselined Titanium Member

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    That was before you told us your dosing schedule. You wouldn't want to take 30mgs of hydrocodone then a couple hours later take 4 grams of kratom. You would probably get some undesirable side-effects, and its still not a good idea to mix CNS depressants, but kratom is relatively benign in that area compared to opiates/opioids. In such low doses, though, as I suggested, it shouldn't be a problem.

    Yes, if by 25 you mean 15, since you were taking 20mgs at ngiht. But like I said, only you can tell how much your body is going to adjust to these changes. You may need more or less, take my advice with a grain of salt. These are just the parameters I am suggesting you try. If you don't get any relief, try more, if you feel a little too high, try less.

    As for kratom, all the strains are going to have some pain-killing properties. Most people talk about bali (red vein borneo) as being the most opiate-like as its euphoric and sedative. But I find the sedation (and other negative side-effects) will overpower the euphoria from bali in higher doses. I find green malay to be much more euphoric with fewer side-effects, and just as good for pain as bali. But your mileage may very. Try different strains and see which you like best!
     
  9. WaitingforHealing

    WaitingforHealing Newbie

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    Yes, indeed, I did mean 15, not 25. Sheesh! I'm usually decent at math :) I'll put the green malay on my list as one to try. Parameters or suggestions are exactly what I'm looking for. I know there's no cut and dried answer. I think I've beat the dead horse on this one. Thanks for helping me out!
     
  10. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Many vendors do sample packs of several strains, it is always worth trying them out as everyone has their own favourite strain or combination.
    I would suggest you stick with red vein Bali but add a small amount of green malay, that's what i enjoy.
    The Green malay perks it up a little and i find the overall effect lasts longer than usual.
    3 parts RVB to 1 part GM.
     
  11. WaitingforHealing

    WaitingforHealing Newbie

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    thank you for the suggestion!! I'll give it a whirl.
     
  12. poiuyt

    poiuyt Silver Member

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    I just want to second what ianzombie said regarding nausea and different reactions. It has been shown through many people sharing their experiences that some people have bad reactions to kratom, or even to different strains. When I first started, Bali was heaven for me but my friend had extreme vomiting and headaches from the exact same batch.

    For your sake I do hope your unpleasant effects are more from the withdrawals because kratom has a good reputation at helping people like yourself to transition away from traditional opiates.
     
  13. Mssixty

    Mssixty Silver Member

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    I get terrible headaches from RED THAI but never from the green veins. I even tried to mix the red Thai with the my favorite green Borneo but I still got an excruciating headache and extremely dehydrated from red Thai.

    However my husband and brother love red Thai and react well to it and have no headaches. I think sometimes people that really react well to one strain have to completely stay away from another.

    I love Boreno and Bali green I take it daily.

    Mssixty added 1 Minutes and 46 Seconds later...

    And the red Thai also makes me very sedated and lazy where the greens give me focus and energy:)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2015
  14. WaitingforHealing

    WaitingforHealing Newbie

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    thank you so much for all of your replies and feedback! It's so helpful! Crazy that we all react so differently, but I'm glad to know that the different make me "normal". :)