Opinions - New worthwhile ethnobotanicals

Discussion in 'Ethnobotanicals' started by genaro, Mar 27, 2006.

  1. genaro

    genaro Iridium Member

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    I'd like to experiment with new ethnobotanicals, meaning worthwhile ones

    Valuable ethnobotanicals include:

    Marijuana (of course!)
    Ayahuasca (DMT plants such as psychotria, mimosa, yopo and the like and IMAO plants such as harmala and caapi)
    Mescaline cactii (peyote, san pedro, peruvian torch, and other trichocerus species)
    Psilocybin mushrooms
    LSA seeds (morning glory, Hawaiian Baby Woodrose and ololiuqui)
    Salvia divinorum
    Iboga
    Amanita muscaria (not that worthwhile but I thought I should mention it as it is definitely active)
    Poppies & "opium like" plants (such as kratom, blue lotus, wild lettuce...)
    Stimulating plants (such as khat, coca, ephedra, guarana..)
    And let's add solanaceae plants (such as datura, brugmansia and such ) because even if these are very dangerous and quite unpleasant stuff that I wouldn't recommend to anyone, one must agree that these are still very effective stuff.

    Now, does any of you have PERSONAL (!!!) experience with other valuable ethnobotanicals ?
    ...NOT plants that I mentionned, NOT dmt plants, something really new.

    I ask this questions because lots of plants descibed as "psychedelic" or "hallucinogen" turn out to be some weak uninteresting stuff or even toxic material and I'd like to know about people's own experiences with more or less unexplored plants.

    What about kanna, kava, sinicuichi, coleus, lagochilus inebrians, leonotis leonorus, unripe mulberries, yohimbe, calamus, galanga, damiana, voacanga, tabernaemontana, scirpus atrovirens, silene capensis (aka xhosa dream root) and many other rare ethnobotanicals ?
    ...the list can be quite long, just check the book "plants of the gods" or this link http://www.illuminati.ch/Wissen/Archiv/Text/Entheogens/Natdrugs.txt

    Please post if you are able to affirm that any rare ethnobotanical is VALUABLE or NOT VALUABLE.
    And briefly descibe the effect: dosage and route of ingestion? stimulant? relaxant? Inebriant? euphoriant? hallucinogen? deliriant? affects dreams? any spiritual/psychedelic potential? any recreational potential? any discomfort or toxic side effects?
     
  2. genaro

    genaro Iridium Member

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    here's my own list:

    Nutmeg (fresh nuts, grinded):
    20g orally, sedative (but there can be some stimulation), mild hallucinogen (quite poorly visual), little recreational potential, very little psychedelic potential, somewhat uncomfortable (dry mouth, disorientation), side effects: speedy heart beat, irregular heart beat, elevated blood pressure, bad headache, also said to be toxic to the liver. Dangerous, not recommended.

    Mamillara Microcarpa var. Grahamii :
    one small fresh catii (5cm tall, 4cm diameter) was dried, crushed and smoked in a pipe. Some moderate ophoria and stimulation was noted, a weak threshold (not so sure of it but I felt there was some phenethylamine touch associated with this threshold). Possible antidepressor potential ??? (I found myself in a very good mood for the rest of the day, but this might have been just some psychological matter)
    Could be interesting trying higher dosages I think, seems to me there's some real psychedelic potential behind this one.
    Possibly psychoactive Mammilara species include M.Senilis, M.micromeris, M.Microcarpia, M.Heyderii, M.Grahamii, M.craigii...

    Cytisus Scoparius (aka Scotch Broom):
    I made a quid out of a few fresh green stems (the ones from the top of the plant), chewed it for 5minutes (= sublingual absorption), beeing careful not to swallow any juice (as brooms are said to be poisonous if swallowed). Doesn't taste good.
    Definite effects which lasted for about 1 hour: it gave me a mild "stone" but with no ophoria, feel quite relaxed and somewhat sleepy (sedative effect), head feels a bit heavy and confused, slight disorientation, slight headache at some point, slight nausea, my vision seemed very slightly increased/clearer than usual (colors may appear very slightly vivified, or better say they look slightly "clearer"...but this isn't much noticiable). I also tried smoking 0.5g of dried yellow flowers mixed with tobacco (as a joint), gave me similar effects but a little weaker (sedation/relaxation still quite present), and there was no nausea. That was a pleasant experience as I was walking in the woods and in the need of some high when I found these broom bush growing wild and suddenly reminded that I had read somewhere that this was active in some way, that was a nice surprise to me but I don't think I would repeat the experience. No recreational potential but this is a good relaxant and brooms grow wild everywhere (better use it smoked as it's completely safe this way). Warning: never swallow any as it is quite poisonous orally (contains cytisine which toxicity is similar to nicotine).
    Cystisine containing plants include Cytisus Scoparius (aka scotch broom), Spartium Junceum (spanish broom), Cystisus Canariensis (canary island broom), Laburnum Anagyroides (aka laburnum), Sophora Secundiflora (aka mescal bean, extremely toxic).

    Datura Stramonium (aka "Jimson weed"):
    2 years ago during the summer I found a sunny field covered of mature Datura strammonium plants.
    There were both "purple stem" and "green stem" datura strammonium strain on this field. I collected flowers, let them dry, and stored them (dried flowers are 5-6 cm long)...I recently decided to smoke some. I finely crushed almost 1g of these, added some tobacco to it, and smoked it as a (big) joint. Each toke was kept in the lungs for 5-10 seconds. The taste was OK. I found it to produce a subtle mild high. The effect lasted for 30min to 1h (more like 40min).
    I was feeling light headed and slightly anaesthesied/relaxed with maybe some slight ophoria (happiness feeling).There was a short slight headache after 30 min.
    The high somewhat reminded me of when you're laying on some beach with the sun on your face so you feel light headed and sleepy at the same time.
    But there was no "stoning" as with marijuana... and no hallucinations/visuals like with oral/transdermal datura use.
    No pupils dilatation, I experienced slightly increased heart beat & blood pressure (but much much much less intense than when smoking lots of marijuana), slightly dry mouth (much less than after smoking some marijuana).The good point was that smoking datura would not produce any unpleasant side effects such as the dry mouth/inability to piss/blurred vision you get when using it orally (which is dangerous).If one can get some powerful datura spp. flowers, then maybe it could be nice to mix it with tobacco and marijuana (to potentialise the marijuana high).
    Other plants from the solanaceae familly would have similar effect when smoked: daturas, brugmansias, henbane, mandragora, belladonna and a few others (some possibly have higher alkaloid concentrations than other, allowing stronger effects when smoked)
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2008
    1. 4/5,
      Good stuff again!!
      Mar 27, 2006
  3. genaro

    genaro Iridium Member

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    OK, nobody cares ?!!!!
     
  4. Thirdedge

    Thirdedge Gold Member

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    Well, thanks for the Natural Drugs link Genaro, very interesting, although a little out of date, I would imagine the author would have made many interesting discoveries since then.

    Heres some new ones I have been looking into:

    Maconha brava
    *smoked as cannabis alternative in Brazil.

    Baybean / Seaside jackbean - Canavalia rosea, Canavalia maritima.
    *smoked as cannabis alternatives.

    Mouseear Hawkweed
    *smoked as cannabis alternative.

    Corydalis Sp - Heavenly blue, China blue.
    *Morphine related alkaloids.

    Pedicularis Sp - cobra head, elephants trunk, indian warrior.
    *smoked as cannabis alternative.

    Gold pepper - Piper auritum
    *smoked as cannabis alternative.

    Straw Flower - Helichrysum foetidum
    *smoked as cannabis alternative.

    Chancarro - Cecropia mexicana
    *smoked as cannabis alternative.

    Sth African Paperdaisy - Helichrysum foetidum
    *Smoked as trance tobacco in Africa.

    Dwarf Skullcap - Scutellaria nana
    *smoked as cannabis alternative. Claimed to be far superior to common skullcap.

    Sida - Sida acuta
    Sida - Sida rhombifolia
    *mixed info on these, possibly contain ephedrine as well as tryptamines.
     
  5. shamantra

    shamantra Newbie

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    pedicularis is defently intresting but not as a marijuana substitute (to make it short, there is no substitute for marijuana), 5 pedicularis spp grows wild around here and i also have 2 diffrent pedicularis spp in cultivation + i have bioassayed a couple of others as well, none of them are euphoric or anything like cannabis, they have some sedative effects wich is intresting but its hardly anything for recreational use. Pedicularis is one of the more enjoybale herb to smoke when it comes to taste and maybe it will work well together with cannabis (havent tried that yet) but defently nothing to substitute cannabis with.
    Kanna has some stimulating effects. but i personally dont like the effects from it. there is some euphoric and analgesic effects.

    scirpus atrovirens i have bioassayed once without getting any effects, this doesnt mean its not active only that the sample i took was not effective in that dosage for me, or the sample had little or non alkaloids.

    sinicuichi & coleus - i love growing them but i have never gotten any effects from them and I have bioassayd alot of material on these two.

    lagochilus inebrians - is not so intoxicating as the common name makes it sound (intoxicant mint) , there are some sedative effects tho. its an intresting medicinal plant however.

    leonotis leonorus - I grow this one also together with klip dagga a close relative, but bioassays has been negative on this one too.

    voacanga, tabernaemontana - contains iboagine and similar related alkaloids. i have bioassayed two tabernaemontana spp with defently effects but also with more discomfort. I have done a good share of ibogaine and its very very effective. I recommend reading as much as possible on this substance before trying it. it can be extremly powerful. in smalled dosages its very stimulating.
     
  6. rikard

    rikard Newbie

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  7. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    Shamantra: any chance on some pictures of these plants?

    I have tried many different extracts that did not work. But this can be caused by bad extraction methods. Recently I tried Calea 10X andTagetus 10X which even had solvents in it. Probably ether. A problem which occurs frequently with ordering from ethnobotanical suppliers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2006
  8. genaro

    genaro Iridium Member

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    for herbal XTC I tried a concentrated liquid extract of guarana+sida cordifolia+ephedra which was quite stimulating (of course there was no xtc like peace & love effect, there was little ophoria, but the stimulation effect was quite present)
     
  9. sunyata

    sunyata Gold Member

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    I've tried Kanna by several routes: smoking, snorting and orally in the form of a tincture.
    I found it to be very unimpressive by itself(head-ache, restlessness), but had a very synergistic effect when mixed with cannabis. Really shitty hash was also enhanced noticably, to the point were it felt like smoking decent cannabis.

    Extract of Corydalis Yanhusuo is very effective as pain-killer, muscle relaxant and a sleeping aid. It seems to build up in the body in some way, if I use it two nights in a row as a sleeping aid I feel very groggy and dizzy the day after the second night. This is not felt as a good thing and it is supposedly rough on the liver when taken often. IMO it's not worthwhile to get high on, there is no euphoria or pleasure from it.

    As long as we're talking medicinal uses I might mention Ecchinacea Purpurea which is simply great for preventing colds if you feel them coming on.

    Brugmansia Suavolens has a slight narcotic effect when smoked in small doses(a little powder sprinkled on a rolled cigarette) and has a synergistic effect with cannabis. Be carefull though, friends who have not taken my advice to not smoke too much of it have ended up with yellow vision for a day or even talking to "little people" in the christmas tree.
     
  10. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    I hope there at least was a chistmas tree.
     
  11. sunyata

    sunyata Gold Member

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    There was, and my friend said he was able to recall smoking the brugmansia so it was not a full delirium. But still, they won't be getting more of that stuff from me. Don't think they want it either.
     
  12. genaro

    genaro Iridium Member

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    amanita muscaria (crude extract) also has some definite potential

    1) Here's the first report (my first trial): Smoking soma extract
    Smoking will provide some definite relaxation with some "space", "weird" feeling associated to it. It's quite pleasant but the "high" (if one can call it that way) is much less strong than a marijuana buzz.
    To smoke it, take a cigarette. Remove the filter without damaging the yellow part of the cigarette envelope, and replace it with a piece of rolled paper.
    Make lots of very small holes all around the white part of trhe cigarette envelope (using a needle or toothpick). Spread some Soma paste all over it (don't put to much or the cigarette won't burn, just spread a very thin layer of extract all over the cigarette until there's no "white paper" left to be seen).
    Then take a cigarette paper (what is the english world for it? Rolling paper? you know, the paper stuff you roll your joints with), and stick it all around the cigarette (over the soma paste).
    And just smoke it ! I suggest you keep each toke in your lungs for 5 seconds for maximum effects.
    Note that the thick Soma paste often prevents the cigarette from burning well and you might need to strike it quite often (alsmost at each toke sometime).

    2) Second trial: Oral use of soma extract
    To get a real "trip" out of this extract you need to eat some of the extract (on empty stomach, meaning 4 hours after your last meal). I use to put it into gellcaps.
    Start with a low dose as amanita's potency may vary...
    ...I used 0.5g at first with very little effects (that was my very first time with A.Muscaria), on the next attempt I took 1g of the extract and got some definite effects but this wasn't a satisfying experience to me:
    I felt relaxed, somewhat drowsy, my mouth was a bit dry, warm feeling in my body, my eyes would be slighlty stinging (nothing really disturbing, probably due to some slight muscarinic effect), there was a slight pressure in my head, my blood pressure was slightly increased, I had a feeling of contentment (even if I felt irritable at a few moments), slight headache on the come down.
    The whole thing ended after 4-5h (which was a good thing as the trip was boring me, I was disapointed as it wasn't really unpleasant, but it wasn't really peasant neither, and it was absolutely not psychedelic.
    I had a slight pain in my back near my kidneys at T+7h, nothing serious I believe but I will report if I ever get this again on my next experiment (maybe A.Muscaria is a bit hard on liver/kidneys just like nutmeg is, not so sure).
    Anyway, I need to experiment with higher oral dosages to draw conclusions about A.Muscaria ...It is said to be a nice psychedelic (in high doses, orally) according to the erowid.org amanitas "effects page" which lists quite a lot of enjoyable effects and little negative ones.

    3) third trial: smoking a mix of herbal highs (that I all knew to be active as I had had experience with each of these separately):
    tobacco+soma extract+cytisus scoparius+datura flowers all together (in some huge joint). each toke was kept for 5second in my lungs.
    The taste of the smoke was unpleasant because soma smoke isn't very nice tasting. Mouth was a bit dry and perspiration slightly increased.
    Resulted in very pleasant relaxation with peacefulness and slight sedation. That was a sunny day so I was ina good mood and therefore this smoking mix had optimal effects, I found my self starring at trees in a calm & contemplative state of mind, tree leaves moving in the wind kept my attention in some relaxing way that is unusual when sober. Really nice. Only side effect that could possibly be some problem with meditating is heavy head/slight somnolence (but at the opposite some might think this could help). The effect is much weaker than cannabis but I would somewhat compare it to the day after acid or the day after shrooms: when you do shrooms or acid, then on the next day you're not trippin anymore but you feel slightly tired, calm and contented, moving slowly into your daylife, that's what this herbal mix reminded me of.
    Effects last for 1 or 2hours
     
  13. jarka

    jarka Gold Member

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    Ethnobotanicals are great. I love them as I love the rest of the nature..
    The latest I've found and I'm planning to try is Coleus Blumei..
    From the plants that were mentioned in the first post I've tried:

    Marijuana - That's psychoactive, we all know.. Use it daily..
    Psilocybin mushrooms - Nice stuff..
    LSA seeds (morning glory, Hawaiian Baby Woodrose and ololiuqui) - I've tried morning glory seeds, Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds and have about 30 ololiuqui seeds but the doses seem to vary from page to page and I don't know how many should I eat..
    Salvia divinorum - smoked leaves once.. want some extract
    Amanita muscaria - tried different preparations.. little to no effects
    Calamus - made tea with a friend.. no effects

    Unripe mulberry seeds contain somekinda psychoactive alkaloid?? Woah.. wtf :D
     
  14. genaro

    genaro Iridium Member

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    yeah this one is creazy....mulberries LOOOL , reminds me of spices trippin (parsley,nutmeg,saffron,dill, etc...)

    I think I'd like to experiment with smoking each of the known ethnobotanicals and find out a few potent smoking mix out of these experiences, one smoking mix for each purpose (sleepin aid, meditative aid, stimulant mix, slightly psychedelic mix, dreaming mix and such) as my last experience with the datura+brrom+soma+tobacco smoking mix really impressed me (I always thought that something too mild was of no interest, better take something strong was I thinking, but I now realize that there are great applications for mildly psychoactive stuff such as meditative/contemplative issues without beeing too "out of here" or "fucked up", which can be seen as negative if your purpose is to devellop some "everyday life" spiritual perception abilities instead of catapluting you in outaspace on an occasional basis without really acquiring any control over it)

    The only negative with such etnobotanicals is that we don't know shit about their long terms effects associated with regular daily use (what about their carcinogenic potential, what about liver&kidney issues, what about heart & cardiovascular issues with everyday use). But I think that these can be really useful on an occasional basis (better not smoke these on a regular basis)


    Also any people with info about the recent statement that marijuana is much much more carcinogenic than tobacco is (like 1 joint = 20 cigarettes)? Any reliable scientific paper about this (not a paper with results only, but a paper describing the all research process that was made to draw such conclusions)? Is it scientifically comfirmed (by reliable legit scientists) or is it one more pseudo-medical intox (or were just the researches poorly conclusive)?
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2006
  15. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    Last edited: Apr 4, 2006
  16. genaro

    genaro Iridium Member

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    thanks a lot Alpha. You're very helpful.
     
  17. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    - Artemisia absinthium (Wormwood), I found it to bitter to drink as tea. Toxicity is an issue to.
    - Calea Zacatechichi (Dream Herb) I found vallueable. Like Kratom it is very important what quality you get. I have smoked very nice Calea, which altough a bit lighter than cannabis is surely a nice alternative. Tastes nice as well. However, I have also tried to smoke other Calea without good effects. Forget about drinking Calea. The taste is as vile as Wormwood (Artemisia absinthium)
    - Cytisus scorparius Chewing a small amount of flower leafs, made me feel relaxed.
    - Humulus Lupulus oil (Hop) had a sedating effect I found uninteresting compared to the harsh smoke.
    - Hypericum perforatum (St. Johnsworth) tea give a nice uplifting effect, if you drink enough. Tastes nice. A Megadose of st. Johnsworth (full spectrum extract extract with a high amount of alkaloids) can give nice effects.
    - Illex Paraguariensis (Yerba Mate) leafs, used as tea gave stimulant effects compared to coffee and guarana
    - Kaempferia Galanga (Galangal) roots 50 grams mixed with rice and honey. Nice effects. A lot of effort.
    - Nelumbo Nucifera 20X extract gave me a experience I would not recommend anyone. The effects where heavily sedating. All we could do is lay in our chairs. I was even to sedated to reach for a drink. No euphoria. After effects was depression. Well in a way. We could only think negatively for about a week. No emotion. totally numb. Much like the experience itself. I have no idea if this was due to the plant or if the extract was fucked up.
    - Nymphea caerulea extract, smoked gave no significant effect. May have to do with extract quality.
    - Pausinystalia Yohimba (Yohimbe) powdered bark works great for sex. The dosage of Yohimbe is something to be carefull about. (MAOI) Yohimbe gives a warmth and a lot of lust. Insuflation of a small dose is effective.
    - Piper Methysticum (Kava-Kava) powdered root. Effects varied from weak to overpowering depending on quality. Hawaiian Kava-kava rules. A strong Kava flavanoïds concentrate is very recommendable. We now have a separate forum on Kava-Kava.
    - Sceletium tortuosum (Kanna) I have tried Kanna in many different forms and ways of administration. All I ever got from it is some numbing and a headache.
    - Sculletaria Lateriflora (Skullcap) leafs are a mild smoke, wiht a sort of stoney effect, which is OK, but not extremely interesting IMO.
    - Sida acuta has been used in herbal xtc's I tried. Very stimulating & euphoriant, much like sida cordifolia.
    - Silene capensis (African dream root) is pretty sharp on the throat, which I do not like. I started experimenting with it, but did not follow trough. You need to take this daily for a while.
    - Tagetus Lucida (Cloud herb or taragon) dried herb, smoked did nothing
    - Turnera difusa / Turnera afrodisica (Damiana) is also good for sex. Make tea from it, but leave the tea sift for 24 hours. Tastes like shit, but works like a charm. Also good to use instead of tabacco in a joint.
    - voacanga africana seeds did nothing. The information I got at the time said to chew on the seeds. My guess is they where to hard to get anything out of it. Tried to smash them with a happer, but even that didn't really work. I trew some cracked seeds in coffee, without effect. I am pretty confident this ethnobotanical should be able to give strong effect. Go for extract!
    - Withania Somnifera did nothing at low dose. I was very careful with this one. It's know to punch your lights out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2006
    1. 3/5,
      Very nice and detailed description..includes stuff I was looking for..
      Apr 30, 2010
    2. 4/5,
      I LOVE this post!! Thanks. This is the shit that keeps me coming back for MORE AND MORE AND MORE! Great Example for the group!!
      Apr 12, 2006
  18. Thirdedge

    Thirdedge Gold Member

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    Damiana

    "Turnera difusa / Turnera afrodisica (Damiana) is also good for sex. Make tea from it, but leave the tea sift for 24 hours."

    Alfa, what do you mean buy let it 'sift' ?

    Is this a mistype of 'sit', or do you mean ferment like sinicuichi or something?

    Thanks:)
     
  19. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    Should have been sit: I mean let your damiana stay in the tea for 24 hours, before you filter it out and re-heat it.
     
  20. genaro

    genaro Iridium Member

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    Calea Zacatechichi (aka Dream herb):
    dried leaves and flower tops smoked with tobacco in some huge joint. Taste ok. Provided very nice relaxation, some sort of mild "high" not unlike marijuana but weaker and much less confusion/heavy head with calea. Some definite sedation (but much less heavy than with brooms or sleepin pills, much more natural & healthier), exellent sleep aid potential to my opinion, I laid down for one hour and had really nice positive (and "light") thinking during this time...

    Also tried 5g as a tea 30 min before going to sleep (very very bitter) + smoked 1g calea (mixed with a little tobacco as a big big joint) just before sleep....sedation was definately present which helped me falling a sleep quite fast...lots of unusual creative dreaming during this night, with some special touch to the visions (dream visions seemed clearer or more detailed than usual)...and the best part of it was that I could remember every single details of every dreams I had on the next day...but on other attempts I realized that calea doesn't work all the time, I think the conditions you're in before going to sleep might be involved : better not smoke cannabis or drink alcohol for 4-5h before sleep, don't eat something heavy on the stomach at the diner, better eat something light, and maybe one should not be exessively tired as maybe excessively deep sleep would disminish dream memories on wake up, also there's a few techniques to help remembering dreams that were described in another thread about calea.
    Calea is said to increase lucid dreams frequency with regular use but I didn't pursued my experimentation to this point.

    A friend of mine tried the same method (tea+smoked) during the day, he did lay down and try to sleep but instead of fallin asleep he entered a state "between sleep and beeing awake", experimenting very nice waking dreams involving nature and happy past memories of his life.

    I think calea has some great potential, not as a recreational drug, but as a spiritual tool (possibly making visions/dreams/thoughts/personal introspection or insights clearer and "lighter")
    Also therapeutic potential as anti-stess/relaxant/sleep aid.

    I might add that I'd probably love to work with crystalline calea alkaloid extract...
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2006