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NO effect from morphine - ... help?

Discussion in 'Morphine' started by mikebobjohn, Dec 22, 2007.

  1. mikebobjohn

    mikebobjohn

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    I come to you all completely bewildered. I've read that Morphine yields the same effects of heroin when both are used orally, and that morphine yields both very good pain control, as well as a significant euphoria.

    I have next to no opiate tolerance, and I took a 15mg ms contin pill that my doctor perscribed, and I felt absoluetly nothing. I kept waiting and waiting because the doctor said it could take awhile (because the pill is time released), but eight hours later I still felt as if I hadn't taken anything.

    I have also tried Oxycodone, the immediate released form pill, at both 10mg at once and 15mg at once, and both dosages have failed to produce really any kind of a euphoria, and the pain relief is minimal.

    I tried subutex (buphrenorphine) before I tried any of these others, and I found that it helped the most with the pain and gave me more of a euphoria than ms contin or oxycodone, but also gave me urinary retention.

    I took 100mg 4 times a day of tramadol over the last few days, and today was my first day back on oxycodone (after only a week of taking it at mostly just 10mg at once), so today I took 15mg of it and in comparison to the tramadol, which effects were very mild, the tramadol gave me more pain relief AND more euphoria (even though there almost isn't any euphoria with tramadol).

    SO - the theme seems to be that I'm responding better to these synthetic opoid drugs (such as tramadol and... is buphrenorphine synthetic too?0 than I am to the oxy, morphine, vicodin (one pill of vicodin didnt do anything either). I also used one 12.5mcg duragesic fentanyl patch and I noticed more of a pain relieving effect than anything else I'd tried. It kind of numbed me out, but there was still no euphoria and I actually felt a little worried. I didnt like it so i took it off after about 16 hours (it didnt start working for about 14).

    Anyway, I'm wondering if maybe the trend of opiate drugs not working with me can be described and then remedied by something. Could I not have the proper enzymes in my body to make use of these medicines? Could my PH not be right? Could my genetic sensity to drugs (that the docs found on a genetics test they did) be affecting it?

    And how do I remedy this?

    And, given that buphrenorphine probably worked the best for me (aside from the urinary retention), is there anything like buphrenorphine, but stronger, that I could try that might not give me urinary retention?

    Help much appreciated. I really need pain and mood management drugs (as my symptoms are possibly caused solely by stress), and I don't know what else to ask my doctor for. I also tried 20mg of ketamine orally and that didn't do anything.

    Can someone explain this phenomenon? There has to be an explanation and a solution as to why I feel nothing or next to nothing when I take drugs that are very similar to the most well liked and addictive drug in the world (heroin).
     
  2. pankreeas

    pankreeas Gold Member

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    Nor should it have. A light dose of k orally is typically 75-100mg. Also please don't incriminate yourself, read the rules.
     
  3. rodent

    rodent Gold Member

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    15mg's of morphine orally isn't really all that much. Usually, pain pharmaceuticals are manufactured so that there is at least some pain control with very little, if any euphoria. It usually takes 2 normal doses to start feeling the euphoria but please use much caution. People reaching for that good feeling very often think "1 pill did nothing at all so I'll take 3 or 4" and this is exactly how overdoses happen.
     
  4. pankreeas

    pankreeas Gold Member

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    True 15 mg of morphine is quite insignificant of a dose orally, however the oxy and fent at those doses should be accompanied by noticeable euphoria. If codeine was the culprit here than I would gather it was a cyp26 chromosome issue but in all likelyhood swiy just has a higher threshold for opiates. So as rodent stated, slow and steady wins the race.
     
  5. mikebobjohn

    mikebobjohn

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    Very helpful guys. I did notice the fentanyl numbing me out significantly at the dose i specified, but there was no euphoria. the oxycodone at 10mg and 15mg (initially) did give very very mild euphoria and a warmness of the tummy (VERY mild), but after like a month of weekly switching off between those dosages of oxycodone and 100mg of tramadol every four hours, the oxycodone at 15mg has ceased to do almost anything. I'm wondering what an ABSOLUTELY safe dose of oxy is that might also give me more relief and euphoria. say i try 20mg, and its still not doing very much. then i try 25, same thing. i mean how high can i go up SAFELY? With absolutely no risk of respiratory depression or failure, or ODing another way.

    Also, can anyone explain why I got more of an effect from 2mg of subutex (buphrenorphine) than I have from 15mg ms contin pills or 15mg of oxycodone.

    And about that chromosome thing you mentioned. what can be done to fix that if it is indeed the case?
     
  6. pankreeas

    pankreeas Gold Member

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    1./ An ABSOLUTELY safe dose of oxy or anything with an LD attached to it for that matter can only be determined after 1./ weight is taken into account. Why is this the #1? because effects from absorption of every food/liquid/substance (legal or illegal) is subject to how much blood it has to work with. For ex./ 7mg/kg *100 = 700mg. In other word if you weighed 100kg then your bloodstream could safely take 700mg and after that all the work left is turned over to your heart which unless in top shape, is no match for that type of stress and would eventually succumb to as you mentioned, respiratory failure.

    So in saying this the best route for administration of any drug it to find the ld50 if you can (ld50 btw is the lethal dose in 50% of reported accounts.) Then see where you stand and where the danger lies.

    As for the subutex this ones even harder to gauge. Swim has taken subs with a 300mg / day codeine tolerance and felt them at .4mg where as others need up to 10+mg to feel anything.

    All the difference in the Subs having effect also lies in whether they are taken after or before tolerance to other opiates deminishes.
     
  7. mikebobjohn

    mikebobjohn

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    by subs do you mean subjects?
    And how do i find an ld50?
    And what does the heart have to do with respiratory (breathing) depression and failure?

    Anyway, I'm 155lbs, or... 70kg, maybe, so what would be a good dose to take of oxy and morphine with my extremely extremely minimal tolerance to them. as in, 10 and 15mg doses (of oxy) did more for me a month ago when i started taking them than they are now, and sicne i started taking oxy ive gone one week on oxy, one week on tramadol, one week on oxy, one on tramadol, and now im on the fifth week, on oxy, and its not doing jack.

    whats a safe dose?

    thanks
     
  8. JJx23

    JJx23 Newbie

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    Well the buprenorphine is probably still in your system, well yes it is if you took the Subutex first and then the pills. You would need to wait 48-72 hours before you took any other opiates to feel the effects. Buprenorphine blocks other opiates from reaching the receptors in the brain. Wait a little bit and then try them, you will see a difference.
     
  9. HomerK

    HomerK Silver Member

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    It takes swim about 90mg of ABG MsContin insufflated to feel a buzz. Not really any euphoria to speak of, but a strong opiate sedation and itchiness (not bad, but not nearly as fun as sniffing 40mg of OxyContin). SWIY probably have a high tolerance for opiates if daily doses are taken for an extended period of time. Slowly up your dose until the wanted effects are felt. It's pretty hard to OD on most of these opiates (IMHO) unless you're completely reckless or don't inform yourself of the details before use (APAP concentration on Oxycodone and Hydrocodone pills, for example).
     
  10. JaWill88

    JaWill88

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    swiy should work up dose until desired effects are reached. swiy should not go past like 40mg oxycodone or 60mg morphine. swim is not sure if anyone would feel anything off 15mg time release morphine. if swiy crushed/chewed it to get rid of time release and swallowed that he may have gotten some feeling. but thats just swims opinion. at the doses mentioned above anyone without tolerance should feel something or something is seriously wrong with them. swims did't have much tolerance and did 60mg oxycodone. it was too much for swim (made him feel ill) but nothing serious happened. oh yeah and wait at least 72 hours after buprenorphine (subutex) dose or swiy isn't going to feel anything off the other opioids.