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Extraction - Peppermint IS a vasoconstrictor it seems...

Discussion in 'LSA seeds' started by Sobercolober, May 27, 2010.

  1. Sobercolober

    Sobercolober

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    SWIM looked up peppermint and found it is a vasoconstrictor, SWIM is sure he has read that it is supposed to be anti vaso constictor and partly why it is
    used in LSA extractions..... as well as turning LSA to LSH

    a quick search finds ....

    "One of the most powerful vasoconstrictors in aromatherapy Peppermint oil is excellent for cooling hot conditions like hot flash, tired and achy legs, hands and feet."

    and

    "Peppermint is a vasoconstrictor; constricts blood vessels. Take 10-20 g of dried peppermint leaves daily, in tea form or 3-6 g in capsule form, in divided doses, between meals, for many months."

    Surely this would seem to heighten the vasoconstrictional effects of LSA seeds?

    Whats up with the misinformation people, can SWIM/Y get some clarity on this?

    Here is a quote from another post from this forum...

    "Another advantage there is to this technique is the peppermint oil is high in
    Salicylates which is one type of natural blood thinner that blocks vitamin K.
    LSA seeds are known its vasoconstrictive properties and this natural blood
    thinner solves this problem for the duration of your high."

    So what is right?

    SWIY need to be careful about what is read on this forum and research in more than one place.
     
  2. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    Hmm, I'm not sure how a blood thinner would assist with vasoconstriction...No that doesn't make any sense to me.

    To clarify this issue and settle it I did an EBSCO search. I did not turn up anything on vasoconstriction with regards to peppermint or any of it's constituents. I did find a short review which provides some information:

    Unfortunately, I didn't find much else and this doesn't really address the questions :(
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
  3. Sobercolober

    Sobercolober

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    "Hmm, I'm not sure how a blood thinner would assist with vasoconstriction...No that doesn't make any sense to me."

    SWIM is now unsure whether to bother with peppermint, it might make the vasoconstriction worse?

    SWIM now finds out that 70pct cocoa dark chocolate is a vasodilator, SWIM think SWIM will eat some of it shortly after taking the special drinky.

    Sobercolober added 3 Minutes and 29 Seconds later...

    SWIM proposes there is some minimal amount of peppermint which turn LSA to LSH as the positive benefit of its use and any more than this as yet unknown amount may increase vasoconstrictive properties of the mix overall. SWIM has no idea for sure but hypothesizes.

    SWIM will brew very weak peppermint tea for the extraction and eat a few bites of dark chocolate to be on the safe side.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
  4. bean.

    bean.

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    Judge on what Jasim posted (although I only briefly scanned it) I'd say mint would combat the effects of LSA vascoconstriction. I base this only on the fact that menthol is present in mint, which is an alcohol. Am I right in assuming this would have similar vascodilation effects to ethanol?
     
  5. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    I think that's a bit of a jump. Just like all groups of chemicals/drugs, all alcohols aren't going to react the same in the body. There's a lot of other constituents in peppermint oil as well. I'd really like to see some scientific evidence with regards to these questions.

    I will say that the vasoconstriction effects from peppermint can't be all that great or so many people wouldn't use peppermint with LSA. Or you'd at least see more reports of bad vasoconstriction.
     
  6. bean.

    bean.

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    Haha yeah I suppose it was a bit of a sweeping generalisation :p sounded good in my head though! I suppose using the same logic all alcohols would make you blind.

    Personally I haven't used peppermint with LSA but LSA itself was enough to make my mates legs feel awfull! This has intrigued me though might have to have a deeper look, or just try a few experiments. Maybe looking at more traditional uses for peppermint could point us in the right direction?

    Bit busy right now but I'm deffinately coming back to this one.

    bean. added 64 Minutes and 20 Seconds later...

    Aha! It took a bit of work but I finally got it!

    Coming from a wikipedia page at the moment, but just now backed up in a scientific paper 'Principles of Pharmacology for Athletic Trainers' menthol is a vascodilator, which is what is responsable for the cooling effect apparently. So is camphor, which migth be found in peppermint also, however this is harder to back up it seems.

    There can be up to 3% menthol in peppermint, and the possibility of another vascodilator (camphor), so my presumption is that peppermint is a vascodilator.

    Hope that helped clear things up a little bit. By the way thought neg rep was a bit harsh, slip of the tongue ... finger. Haha
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
  7. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    Wow, that complicates things. We were discussing vasoconstriction. Anyone have a source stating peppermint has vasoconstrictive properties?
     
  8. Sobercolober

    Sobercolober

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    It is plastered all over the internet and whilst thats not proof of course, I did find some medical based site but cannot post links up

    wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?IA=IL2009000652&DISPLAY=CLAIMS
     
  9. bean.

    bean.

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    Well this is rather annoying, I wrote a nice long post detailing the chemicals in peppermint and whether they had any effect on the vascular system, but it seems my computer decided to crash. Anyway here it goes again.

    Firstly, I looked up those chemicals that were in peppermint, and cross referenced this from a few different sources incase some had been missed out. Anyway I think I got a list of all the major ones in the end.

    There were also a few other chemicals from different sources but this seemed to be the most complete list. The others which occured enough to be worried about were pinene and germacrene, however I made sure to check these and found them to have no effect on cardiovascular system.

    Anyway, I had a quick look at each chemical that came up to see if it had any obvious role on the cardovascular system and found that of those listed only menthol, neomenthol, flavanoids, and tocopherols had any action.

    Rather importantly I suppose I should point out that flavanoids and tocopherols are groups of chemicals, and so there is a possibility that the actual chemicals present in peppermint act differently. However, I found that both of these groups have an effect on the cardiovascular system, but mainly vasoprotective properties. Basically keeping the heart and blood vessels healthy, and protecting from CHD. No obvious vasocontricting effects.

    Then I took a deeper look at menthol and neomenthol, both of which only returned an account of vasodilating effects much like ethanol.

    Like Jasim said this is slightly confusing as it is plastered all over the internet of its vasoconstricting effects. However I can find no evidence that it is from it's chemical make up. Best bet is a medical paper stating its actual effects on the human body and why, but I doubt anyone wil bother to set up such an experiment for peppermint.

    Sorry if that was a bit long and borring I just wanted to clear things up. Maybe there would be a way of taking varying doses of peppermint and somehow recording the vascular effects, such as recording blood pressure?
     
  10. Sobercolober

    Sobercolober

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    SWIM appreciates the post dose investigations, respect.:applause:

    SWIM is going with the peppermint as it seems many have done this
    and LSH seems preferable than LSA given they both cause some vasoconstriction to some degree, though it seems some individuals are more susceptible and at a relatively low dose and with SWIMS nice 85pct cocoa organic chocolate to put him in a good mood and as a vaso dilator he feels it will be fine.

    Sunday night is the designated evening probably around 4pm.

    SWIM will report back on my Rivea corymbosa thread as to results if any.:thumbsup:

    Let's hope 1)it works 2)no nausea 3)no aches and pains in legs !

    Sobercolober added 0 Minutes and 16 Seconds later...

    SWIM appreciates the post dose investigations, respect.:applause:

    SWIM is going with the peppermint as it seems many have done this
    and LSH seems preferable than LSA given they both cause some vasoconstriction to some degree, though it seems some individuals are more susceptible and at a relatively low dose and with SWIMS nice 85pct cocoa organic chocolate to put him in a good mood and as a vaso dilator he feels it will be fine.

    Sunday night is the designated evening probably around 4pm.

    SWIM will report back on SWIMS Rivea corymbosa thread as to results if any.:thumbsup:

    Let's hope 1)it works 2)no nausea 3)no aches and pains in legs !
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2010
  11. InvisibleThing

    InvisibleThing Newbie

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    Some Well Informed Monkey wanted to say, excellent info! :thumbsup: He was moved to compulsive research. :(
    SWIM's spouse, while unlikely to experiment with LSA, could potentially be well served by the anti-nausea and other health promoting properties of peppermint (and ginger ;)), and her simian lifemate plans to try his first morning glory seeds for the first time within the next couple days. He hypotheses that adding peppermint oil to lemon juice for the cold water extraction may have beneficial properties, but wonders if it would be better added after extraction, as the menthol would evaporate or otherwise degrade after 3-5 hrs? He suspects it wouldn't hurt to add peppermint oil during extraction, and again before ingestion. Any potential undesirable reactions between the lemon juice and peppermint oil in regards to LSA compounds, especially after soaking?
     
  12. bluntshell

    bluntshell R.I.P.

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    "Pain and sensory effects
    In low concentrations, topical application of menthol causes a cooling sensation, while in higher concentrations, it causes local anesthesia and irritation. The irritant effect of menthol causes local vasodilation. This effect has been used to aid penetration of topical drugs. Menthol's sensory effects are utilized in commercial topical musculoskeletal products.

    --drugs.com 2009 Wolters Kluwer Health

    So, it seems it's a vasodilator?

    Since menthol is the what we're really looking for here.....I assume methol is th main chemical having whatever effect

    It seems it's vasodialtion effects are why it's included in topical pain remediel, oral pain remedies, and erection creams..... Might explain why menthol tobacco (subjectivly) is more addictve......
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  13. willyJ

    willyJ Silver Member

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    Hmmm, interesting. So perhaps rubbing a bit of Vicks vaporub on your legs when they start to ache might help? Topical relief targetted to the site of the constriction!
     
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