Percocet insuffilation?

Discussion in 'Oxycodone' started by Son of Axeman, Jan 23, 2007.

  1. Son of Axeman

    Son of Axeman Newbie

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    Good day, ladies and gents. A question for you all.

    I was prescribed 5/325 Percocet for a sudden onset of leg pain that is still under investigation. He has been taking opiates every day for 3 months, to deal with the pain. However much he needs the pills for legitimate pain relief, I am also a curious little creature.

    I am familiar with CWE methods, and was wondering: is there a way to return pure oxycodone into powder form, for snorting? SWIM heard that high temperatures inactivate opiates, and so he would like to be well-informed before attemptimg any such method.

    SWIM thanks you all for your contribution.
     
  2. Forthesevenlakes

    Forthesevenlakes Platinum Member

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    High temperatures do inactivate opiates, but one could probably heat the water left at the end of a CWE (below 100 degrees celsius, however, to avoid competely boiling it), and perhaps do this in a larger pan or pot to allow more surface area. After a while the watter would evaporate, and a larger surface area would help this occur more quickly. Even putting the pot/pan out in the sun on a hot day would probably work if You doesn't live in a humid area.

    Alternately, if not much water is used for the CWE, maybe You could keep the water, but put it in a nasal spray bottle and spray as needed. It would have the same effect as insufflation and would be much easier than evaporating anything.

    However, oxycodone has a pretty high oral bioavailability to begin with. Some sources say it actually absorbs better through the stomach than through the nose (SWIM actually believes this, snorting oxycontin produces less of an effect for him than eating), so ultimately You could just drink the solution after doing a CWE and this would be the easiest and most effective way of using the percocet. Just be careful with the dosage and addiction potential.
     
    1. 5/5,
      one of the best and informative posts regarding snorting/eating oxycodone, well written.
      Feb 1, 2007
  3. Son of Axeman

    Son of Axeman Newbie

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    Thanks you. I've been taking 20-30 mg every day for 3 months now, addiction potential no longer worries me. SWImydoctor (who is a miracle) told me he'd help me with it, and besides: I need the percocet for pain management. He's been trying to get some OxyContin for the sake of convinience, but SWIM's doctor isn't ready to graduate him to OC just yet, choosing to wait a few more months, to see if he can't find the cause of SWIM's pain.

    I know that oxycodone has a high oral bioavailability, but he's also new to drugs, and has never snorted anything before, so he's curious as to what all the hype is aboot. (That's right, he said aboot).
     
  4. emineo

    emineo Newbie

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    Re: CWE

    Quoted from rxlist

    Re: Insufflation

    I have read recent material referencing insufflation of percocet. Specifically, the 10/325 variety.

    Virtually immediate onset is the biggest benefit that was mentioned.

    Slightly better cranial buzz than oral ingestion was also claimed.

    Pill was crushed and insufflated without any extraction procedure.
     
  5. Donmeka

    Donmeka Silver Member

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    insufflating OC is great to SWIM. it pretty much hits you quicker but lasts shorter but still a good while. SWIM insufflated about 5mg and with no tolerance u should feel a bit good :) 20-40mg insufflated will cause a pleasant euphoria for SWIM for a good hour or 2 maybe more. SWIM enjoys it and doesnt rly remember the last time he popped one haha
     
  6. Forthesevenlakes

    Forthesevenlakes Platinum Member

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    Insufflation is a very quick route for any water soluble drug, but ol' SWIM, who reacts to drugs a bit differently than most, has found that sometimes insufflation with oxycodone does not work for him at all. Most of the time he can insufflate 20-40 mg and catch the standard buzz, but occasionally he will insufflate...and absolutely nothing happens! I am confused as to why that is. Given the high oral bioavailability of OC, he still finds himself taking the pills orally many times since he is sure to figure that way, and it seems to last much longer (up to 4 hours) in SWIM's case. If You is able to get 2+ hours of euphoria from snorting oxycodone though, more power to him!
     
  7. Donmeka

    Donmeka Silver Member

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    damn that a pain for SWI7 i mean not a pain but an inconvenience in my mind. I would be confused as well lol. I should try swallowin the bastard next time and see how it is.
     
  8. Dr.Jones

    Dr.Jones Newbie

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    auctually there are some non water soluable drugs that have a higher nasal bioavaibility than oral. But, Like the thread I made, and should have became a sticky, pills containing APAP should simply be eaten. Or cold water-ed and eat.
    Or cold water and plugged, but if you do opiates your probaly constipated and it wouldn't be a good idea.
     
    1. 3/5,
      Narcotic induced constipation? Eat plums (1-2 per day) or prunes (3-10 per day) if not allergic.
      Jul 18, 2011
  9. Gaius315

    Gaius315 Silver Member

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    I started a year and a half ago on Percocet 10mg. I was snorting 8-10 a day in a few short weeks. This was before SWIM learned more and discovered that Acetaminophen is dangerous for the liver. (Sad when one must extract a drug away from Tylenol to avoid major damage.) Insufflation offers a quicker, more intense, but shorter high. CWE is ok but I recommend searching the net and using chloroform or ether for extraction. However You extracts the oxycodone out, the liquid can be evaporated and will leave a crystalline, highly delicate powder behind (very similar to cocaine but only in the physical form.) That powder can be snorted and tastes very similar to Oxy IR (which is pure oxycodone except for the binders.) I used CWE and placed on a glass plate that was then put in the oven set at 150 F with the door cracked open to avoid destroying the opiate. Once the water was all gone, a thin film remained that was scraped off with a razor blade and snorted.
     
  10. Dr.Jones

    Dr.Jones Newbie

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    Chloroform extraction? Due to oral bioavalability of oxycodone being HIGHER than nasal bioavalability, I would recommend simply doing a cold water extraction and drinking the water. It auctually hits you pretty quick. Quicker than a roxicodone. But i do think its neat you auctually did some research yourself and come up with the idea by yourself.
     
  11. Son of Axeman

    Son of Axeman Newbie

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    @ SWIGaius315: And the opiate was left intact? Very interesting. Thanks for the info.

    @ SWITheDoc: I'll take that in mind. Mind you I'm rarely alone, and passing water through a coffee filter would look a little suspicious, but I'll find a way. Thanks for the advice.
     
  12. doppey

    doppey Silver Member

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    The reason most people don't get hish off snorting OC is bacause they dont crush it properly. I say hes heard from many evil doers that they couldn't get an effect from insufflated OC. SWIM informed them to crush well with something (lighter) under a clean piece of paper and then chop that shit up with a razor (Has to be a razor or sharp knife or your flattening and not spereating the pieces.) All of them were apparently satisfied with the results afterword.

    Maybe if someone actually reads this and tries it it will end the "mystery"

    Peace

    BTW, SWIM informed me there's much more on an effect and a much quicker onset with insufflation. They say that the peak from an equal amount of the drug doesn't even compare.
     
  13. emineo

    emineo Newbie

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    Heard about this again the other day. Went something like this...

    Perc 10 was pulverized under a round bottom glass pair of monkey balls with way more powder evolved than was really wished for.

    Even the small yellow ones created a pile that looked enormous and all the elephant jockeys really wished it had been a sparkling pile of great blow.

    But the idea behind snorting it at all was to circumvent the GI tract for absorption because a large amount of chow had just been gobbled up.

    Long story short, there was a decent head buzz quickly, more than would have had resulted orally because of recent food ingestion. Bad news is, there's a binder in there that only breaks down in slightly acidic environments.

    Not sure if that particular binder is present in all forms of oxycodone percs, but in those it was.

    Several days after, big wads of it were still making abstract shapes in copious handfuls of kleenex. Some was very pretty and some I didn't understand at all.

    The art was definitely not worth the effort.

    Side note... Heard someone suggest freezing hydro-, oxy- for several hours then sending it down the hatch as a method to avoid some nausea.

    Maybe, maybe not. Best I can think of is, it may stall some reactions momentarily but not enough to delay anything noticably.
     
  14. Songcycle67

    Songcycle67 Gold Member

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    SWIM wrote this, purely for educational purposes, to no one in particular and told me to post it:


    I'm going from my subjective experience with these new formulas here, so if any SWIMmers have something floating around in their area that is bad for insufflation, please add it to the discussion. Here goes:


    Most actual oxycodone/oxycontin pills (not percocet or any mixtures with tylenol/aspirin/ibuprophen--basically anything above a 10mg) are not insufflable due to some kind of chemistry or coating that is implemented during manufacture. Usually the cheaper and more generic the pill, the harder they are to insufflate. Problem is, people who buy them on the street don't really know the difference--so You should look up the pill. There should be dozens of reviews online, some even outlining how to, if possible, derive a snortable substance from what is essentially a pile of clot.

    As noted in the above post, the nastier forms of these are not insufflable due to the fact that a certain Ph ratio must be reached (ideal stomach conditions). After snorting what looks like a fairly standard dose of perfectly powdered OC, the trouble starts. Basically what you have in your nose are collections of various lumps of chemicals that cannot be broken down, and a big waste of a lot of money.

    The only guaranteed form of snortable pure OC exists in the brand versions. With these, most of the oxycodone pills are not even coated, and the oxycontin pills are, in the US at least, coated with a futile thin sheath of dough-like material that can be rubbed off easily with the aid of a dab of water so that the white pill can be crushed (usually oxycontin tablets are very hard to crush) and absorbed nasally. The standard brand also happens to be the most expensive, concentrated, and most addictive form of the drug.

    So, first thing, one should identify the pill being used if it is not the standard brand version (of which tons of photo ID's exist on the internet--usually it is marked OC on one side and mg is notated on the other, i.e. OC and 20 would be written on either side of the pill if it was a brand 20mg oxycontin).

    Secondly, if it's not explicitly stated whether the pill one has is snortable, one way to check is to try to rub any coating off. If it rolls up like wet cotton and gets stuck to the pill, do the math--at least those companies don't even let you get to the point where you think you can snort it (although some still try). If the coating does come off easily, one shouldn't just crush and take a chance, they should see if it dissolves easily and fairly quickly in the mouth...if it does, this means it is probably a good bet for being water soluble, giving it a direct route to the brain through the nose. Even then, however, there are risks. These companies are getting trickier and trickier about this stuff, but luckily most of them want kids abusing them (what business wouldn't want to increase profits?) so there are pretty easy ways around most of these methods.

    The base-acid thing is the only one form which I've never known anyone to be able to derive a snortable compound. Usually these forms come with the cottony outerlayer I mentioned, which itself is a feat to get through.


    Concerning Oxycontinuous release (Oxycontin): Generics are just shit, basically. They pull dirty tricks to water down the compounds they use; again: it's a business, a lucrative business full of greedy bloated billionaires, and more OC per pill=less profit. They're turning into the heroin dealers of old (worse, maybe...i'd rather have diarrhea formula cut into my dose of H as opposed to a nose full of shit in my pain meds any day), this time it's legit, though, and pharms pay out billions every year to keep themselves legitimate in the eye of the public (which hasn't been very effective in the last few years). So whenever possible, one should try to find a brand OC and they'll be pleasantly surprised when it only takes 20mg of brand to give a 30-40mg generic experience.


    Generally, concerning Oxycodone/Roxicodone: Right now there aren't that many preparations of oxycodone pills (again, i'm referring to those above 10mg with no APAP, etc.) which are being "abuse-protected" with methods such as those listed above for oxycontinuous. I personally haven't seen any around. These companies will not, as a general rule, change a formula for something that sells as much and is as important to medicine as oxycodone so that they can keep a consistent pill that their clients trust. In the coming years, for good or ill (I'm not a big fan of people telling other people what to do, even if it is something silly like snorting oxies), more and more will be appearing with abuse protection, and things like wetting a pill and scraping off the covering isn't going to do it for these--I would say the Ph-sensitive formulas will eventually be embraced by every company that produces these types of medicines eventually, otherwise they'll get even more bad press...i'm surprised the flimsy attempt to abuse-proof OC brands has held up this long. When the lobby money runs out, so will enter the new abuse-proof formulations, but right now they're selling more than ever, faster than ever.

    Tangent:
    The silly, futile coating on Oxycontin brand, by the way, was done so that the patent holders would sell more than the verified companies producing the generics: pharm companies know that people will pay 6 or 7 times as much for the quality, snortability, reliability, and general chemical purity--things which the generics obviously generally lack and which attract users and abusers. And any pharm company will do anything to get a chance at being verified (given permission to produce) something as marketable and fruitful as the highly potent pain killers being toted out of every pharmacy in america by the millions every week: even if it means accepting and using an (possibly purposely produced) inferior formula for the generics, these companies know that people will take whatever they can find in their price range to get their meds/drug of choice. Why fix something that isn't broken? Why not break it even more..almost to the point of complete destruction of anything resembling chemical purity? Right now in labs across the world they're trying to figure out ways to fuck people over, and nowhere do people get fucked over more than in their dealings with pharmaceutical companies and HMO's. And as a bonus, every now and then the patent holder will allow HMOs that work with and through them to, say..as happened earlier this year for example, deny acceptance of Medicaid/medicare on oxycontin 20mg and below, forcing millions of people to either get bumped down to generics in order to afford them, or bumped up to the 40mg (for which SSI is strangely still accepted..hmmmmmmm...giving some slack for the people in real pain or forcing doctors to write higher milligrams for patients that get no relief from generics? i wonder...).
    End of Tangent



    So be smart, don't waste your money, don't get took. And if all the signs point to abuse protected product, might as well just go ahead and swallow it on down, as even the non-Ph sensitive *looking* pills can have binders in them that either make them a bitch to snort or make them impossible altogether.

    For those SWIMmers who enjoy taking it to the brain, savor the moment...more and more people are getting that phonecall from their pharmacy that they will no longer be getting the formula they've been snorting for the last 10 years in stock and when they get the new stuff will unknowingly crush up a big pile of base and binders and dyes that color their nose bright red and try to inhale it.

    I pity those people. Won't stop addiction or abuse, I don't think, as they're giving their newer clients plenty of time to get heavily hooked (as one does especially in the case of nasal abuse) before making them chewables. And some people would eat a gallon of dog shit to get that contin high.

    Control, control, control.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2009
  15. cra$h

    cra$h Palladium Member

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    Well, as far as snorting OC, it's definitly more of a rush. If you get a big pill, there's not nearly as much powder as a couple percocets, which is a good thing. Less powder, faster intake, more rush. That's the only advantage. It's slightly shorter, and the difference in bioavailibilities is unoticable to swim. As long as its the regular dose, he knows he's high enough haha.

    Generally,
    oral-l onger, good bioavailibility, healthiest, cosistant buzz
    nasal- shorter, no more than 10% bioavalibility difference, great rush, fades to buzz
     
  16. Songcycle67

    Songcycle67 Gold Member

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    SWIM wrote the following:

    Quickie: Couldn't find anything on this, oddly enough, but, does anyone know the proper time for Oxy's absorption in the nasal cavity? Is it like amphetamine where you can blow your nose a few minutes after doing a line and lose nothing? Apparently amphetamine salts absorb in a matter of seconds, is this a rule of thumb for insufflation or just for amphs?

    Hope that's not too far off-topic.
     
  17. cra$h

    cra$h Palladium Member

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    Amphets are a salt though. Not really sure what oxycodone is, but it's completely different.Swim can say though that the powder in percocet will be up there for a while, and it causes a little discomfort, especially considering the amount of powder since it's going to be a multiple pill session. But don't worry though, if You gets tired of swiy's nose being clogged, simply sniff it back into a drip, which is normally wasteful, but as far as oxy goes, it doesn't matter if it hits the stomache. Do it thoroughly though, when it's lodged in the back of the throat it really gets annoying. sniffing a couple drops of water help absorbtion after a couple lines too
     
  18. Gaius315

    Gaius315 Silver Member

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    Well, I am no chemist, but years of experience have taught SWIM practical knowledge of opiates. Oxycodone by itself is highly soluble and absorbs quickly in any mucus membrane. The nasal passages offer a great source of absorption and most prefer it to the stomach. When coupled with acetaminophen, however, the mucus gets globbed up and "plugged" by the insoluble acetaminophen and doesn't absorb the oxycodone as well. This is evident if you've ever noticed that after snorting an OC, any nasal mucus is clear and thin much like its natural state, but after a percocet, your mucus is thick, white, and gritty. The acetaminophen soaks up the mucus and keeps the opiate from dissolving properly. This is why one can snort an OC 10 and get higher than snorting a percocet 10. However, most people still snort percs/vics because of the addiction of snorting, which is habit-forming in and of itself. I have never tried, but most people say that rectal administration is much greater due to the fact that blood vessels that absorb the opiate are more densely spaced in the rectum and anything absorbed through the rectum bypasses the liver. This is why a person can die from alcohol poisoning from a single bottle of wine if taken rectally. The liver filters out most foreign substances and "poisons" that affect the body, including most medicines.

    As for my previous post, CWE (cold-water extraction) is still the easiest and cheapest method of separating the chemicals since acetaminophen doesn't dissolve in water that well. It is far from pure, however, and SWIM prefers to just find pharms that do not include an NSAID. OxyContin, Roxicodone, Dilaudid (hydromorphone); these are SWIM's preferences in order. Not a fan of morphine or fentanyl, but I would take if that's all that was available.

    Also, from SWIM's experience, a Roxicodone or Oxy IR will give a more potent high than an OC of the same dosage, but will not last as long. SWIM speculates that this is due to the controlled release binders that are in OCs since Oxy IR (roxicodone for off-brand) are "Instant Relief" and the Contin in OxyContin stands for "Continuous." OCs are intended to provide pain relief for 12 hours whereas the IRs are 4-6 hours just like Percocet. One would assume that the binders intended to make the pill dissolve slower in the stomach would have a similar effect in the mucus membrane of the nasal passages. Unless, as mentioned by someone else, the pill is crushed up extra fine. I have noticed a difference in leaving the powder "lumpy" as apposed to grinding it up and chopping into the smallest pieces possible.
     
  19. Suboxer

    Suboxer Silver Member

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    Classical phenanthrene opioids - codeine, morphine, the *morphones, and the *codones - can not be degraded by boiling water at atmospheric pressure. They do not degrade until upwards of 140ºC, far above the 100ºC boiling point of water.

    I can not speak to the stability of open-chain opioids like methadone, novel opioids like pethidine, propoxyphene, tramadol, or fentanil, nor phenanthrene opioids with long side-chains and other abnormal features, such as the Bentley opioids - etorpine, buprenorphine, etc.

    It is a waste to sniff oxycodone - you should eat it, and not worry about the trouble of evaporating to a mostly oxycodone/some APAP powder that would be left after a CWE. Oxycodone has a 90-95% bioavailability when taken by mouth, and only a ~60% biovailability when insufflated - for each 2mg eaten, one would have to sniff 3mg to achieve the same effect. The extremely high oral BA of the *codones are why they are universally preferred by non-IV users - they even give a slight rush when taken by mouth as they are kicking in, unlike other opioids - and why the effects are only marginally different and not much better when injected. Drugs with a low oral/insufflation BA like heroin (20%/50% respectively) and cocaine (30%/50% respectively) give such a different experience when IV'd compared to all other routes of administration that one could confuse them with different drugs. The experience of shooting heroin is nothing like sniffing it. The experience of shooting or smoking coke is nothing like sniffing it. However, the experience of shooting oxycodone is pretty much exactly the same as eating it, with a marginally stronger rush and a marginally shorter duration of action.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
  20. Herbs&Hopes

    Herbs&Hopes Silver Member

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    Suboxer, I find your claims that *codones have little difference in onset/effect/intensity between injecting vs eating/insufflating.

    I suppose evidence backing the claim resides in the stated bioavailability for the R.O.A.'s as well as differences in each of the classical phenanthrene opiates/opioids various bioavailabilities.