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Dose - Phenibut 1st Time! Social Anxiety and Performance Anxiety

Discussion in 'Nootropics' started by e_choco_o, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. e_choco_o

    e_choco_o Silver Member

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    So I got my bottle yesterday, 90 x 500mg caps of Phenibut from Phenibut.org

    I've always had social anxiety and until about a year ago used excessive amounts of alcohol to deal with it. The last time I took it the hangover was so bad I think I wasn't that far from dying. I think I damaged my heart somewhat and have self diagnosed myself with a very mild alcoholic cardiomyopathy which has gradually gotten better but is still there. Anyway, alcohol is a very nasty drug and even low doses bring about negative effects as it wears off, so it's out.

    Recently, I've used kava extract of 30% 300mg caps (and will soon try kava root powder, it's on it's way but could take a week or more) as an alternative with quite succesfull results. I once took 8 caps through out a few hours at new years but was feeling very self concious in a very lively bar. I later realized it was probably having a bunch of capsules in a stomach with a couple burgers that didnt allow for a fast release. Last time I took 10 caps in a glass of water right before driving to a friends house and not only had no trouble driving as effects came up but I behaved quite confident/talkative at a social reunion. The only negative side effect was a mild headache the next day. The other problem with kava is that it appears to be a counterindication with alcohol, which I dont really want to ever drink again but it would be nice to be able to take a drink, yet it's said to damage the liver.

    Anyway, it was not until a few days ago I heard about Phenibut and was amazed at what it seems to be. An anxiolitic nootropic! As with Kava I want to use this for social situations and specially for my first ever solo acoustic concerts at an open mic I've been practicing for through out the year, so Phenibut sounds perfect!

    My axiety has gradually reduced naturaly as I get older, yet I've spent the whole year working on a demo with minimal social interactions. Now I'm about to suddenly perform in front of a crowd for the first time ever (next wednesday, in less than a week) so I need to quickly gauge the dose I would need for it to do the trick.

    So tomorrow friday I'm going to an eletronic music party, the only kind of party that normally gets me in a good state, as I often enjoy the music and feeling a lot. I plan on taking 1 capsule (500mg) 2 hours before heading out and depending on how it feels take another cap right before I leave and let it build up as I'm there. I've read 500mg is a very weak, if even noticeable (I weight 80-85kg) dose though. At the same time I normally have low tolerance to most drugs.

    Now, my questions are...
    Is 500-1g too weak, or is it wise to start like that? Or is it better to maybe take a few more caps to this party, even if its my first time? 1.5-2g?
    If after 1g Phenibut I don't feel much, would taking a drink or 2 be a problem next day? I dont want ANY hangover the next day!
    Does Phenibut cause a hangover on it's own? at what dose?

    I really don't care about the party other than to gauge the effects of Phenibut for next wednesdays solo acoustic concert, so thanks anyone, ANY advice would be greatly appreciated!

    e_choco_o added 402 Minutes and 19 Seconds later...

    Any chance 500mg could be enough? Any possible nasty side effects from 1g? what is the average duration? I've heartd it's long yet, how long? it's not on the web
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
  2. RacerAtom

    RacerAtom Newbie

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    Don't know if this response is too late or not but 1g is a perceptible dose to me, 1.5g preferred. In the interests of safety I would titrate the dose by 0.5g at a time, GABA-b agonists like phenibut and GHB are notorious for their emetic effects at higher doses. With GHB's rapid zero order elimination it's not so bad, for phenibut with it's 5 hour half life, you can end up feeling sick for hours after taking too high a dose.
     
  3. e_choco_o

    e_choco_o Silver Member

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    ...better late than never, thanks. I have tried 0.5g once and 1g twice, I think I felt something on every dose, it's been too mild so far to be used as an effective social lubricant, but it reduces overall anxiety and it's nootropic effects are very noticeable imo. I don't know how it can be used as sleep aid as your mind keeps running quite lucidly for several hours. Unfortunately I've always taken it after a night of bad sleep so I 'm not sure if there is a hangover the next day or if it's just bad sleep. Anyway, so you say I shoudl try 1.5g? how far ist safe to take it looking for an optimal effect, I weigh 180 pounds.
     
  4. RacerAtom

    RacerAtom Newbie

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    With drugs like this there is no maximum limit per se, you gradually titrate until you get your personal optimum dose.
     
  5. e_choco_o

    e_choco_o Silver Member

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    well, I hope its 2g at most
     
  6. xiaobendan

    xiaobendan Silver Member

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    It's not something afoaf has ever seen in a health stores. It's usually obtained from body building type websites.

    It's useful in the gym at a 2 gram dose, strengh and endurance are increased and it is "supposed" to raise GH levels so that the body burns fat at a faster rate to produce muscle.

    One thing is noticed you will be starving the next day. And the after glow is almost better than the buzz, total anti-anxiety feeling all the next day.

    Afoaf is 105kg(currently), a recreational dose would be 4grams but the first few times doing it 2 grams produced euphoria(after running on it).

    It's very addictive(physically), and because of the long half life withdrawals take a week to pass, a very scati experience, read afoaf reports on another thread. Really nasty, treat it like a weekend drugs not an everyday supplement, that was afoaf's mistake.

    Anything that feels that good has to be trouble if it's over done.
     
  7. Dr. Chocoholic

    Dr. Chocoholic Silver Member

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    Phenibut in my experience can be felt and has positive effects at dosages as little as 200mg (for reference my weight is 200lbs). From 200 to 500mg there is a slight inhibition of anxiety, more openness, talking and interacting with people is easier and more enjoyable. Higher does (1 - 1.5 grams) tend to be more sedating, especially when taken all at once. In my experience spreading a 1.5gram dose out over a few hours can lead to the most positive effects especially in terms of social interaction and anxiety reduction. I would not recommend doses larger than 2 grams because in my experience (again especially if taken all at once) they can cause a hangover of sorts the next day. These dosages are from my experience only and many people respond differently so keep that in mind.

    Phenibut in my opinion is useful because it suppresses cortisol release, giving time for the adrenal glads to recover. If you're a regular coffee drinker or caffeine user then phenibut can be of great help on the weekends to detox and unwind. It also greatly enhances sleep although it will also intensify dreams to a somewhat scary degree.

    Be careful because phen is definitely addictive as are any drugs which relieve anxiety. Try to use it sparingly and if possible only later in the day or even better only at night for sleep purposes.

    Keep us posted on your experience and good luck!
     
  8. e_choco_o

    e_choco_o Silver Member

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    Ive read quite a bit about, and although I have only taken it a couple times, I would totally advice against using it as a "benzo detox". It is not a supplement, even though fortunatelly it is classified as such, its prescription in russia where it was invented. Anyway, how can using another drug, be a detox... ?!?!?! Detox with the best> ie. vegetables, water, some fruit and exercise.

    e_choco_o added 2 Minutes and 57 Seconds later...

    Btw, I-ll take 1.5g next time, havent felt any sedating effects so far, or maybe I have but... well see how it goes...
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
  9. salgoud

    salgoud Newbie

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    Thanks guys for the input and answers. I am surprised it is addicting. Like as addicting as Lyrica (pregabalin) or addicting as benzo's.

    Cortisol is a hormone created when ones body is under stress, this I know. I causes weight to be gained in the stomach (pot belly type). Now I can see why body builders use it to help trim their bodies.

    I know the phenyl group attached to the molecular structure helps it cross the Blood Brain Barrier with relative ease.

    I just can't see how it could be more addicting than benzo's. I've been taking them for seven years and if Phenibut can be used to help one cut down on the amount of benzo's one takes, then it would have an advantage to help me slowly detox. My body and brain cannot function without benzo's. I get tinnitus, the dry heaves, rebound insomnia, no appetite, nervous as hell, diarrhea, and many other unpleasant W/D symptoms. To say the least, I am a wreck without them. My mother died in February 2005 then my little brother committed suicide in September 2005, so my Psychiatrist placed me on Lamictal 200mg, alprazolam 1mg three times a day, and a 30mg temazepam to aid with sleep. I was a chronic insomniac after my loved ones departed this life, and the medication saved my sanity and life.

    I have two years to detox, and I eat well, vegetables (broccoli and brussell sprouts), I eat white meat (chicken, fish and lamb chops), and a potato. I have diabetes type II, so I watch my diet carefully. Eating healthy never helped me detox from benzo's, however I am an extreme case.

    If Phenibut is easier to detox than benzo's then I would choose Phenibut while slowly tapering from alprazolam 1mg three times a day and one 30mg temazepam at night for sleep. If Phenibut could help me drop to one alprazolam 1mg a day and help with my sleep, by cutting out the temazepam, I would be content.

    Thanks again for clarifying my questions.

    Oh, and Choco, I understand the point you are making, however, other benzo's with longer half-lives are used on benzo dependent persons. Such as Valium and Klonopin. I must taper slowly, and as you know, detoxing off of benzo's can cause seizures and could result in death. I have crossed the line, and unfortunately I wouldn't be able to eat in full W/D's, let alone exercise. However, I do ride a Mountain Bike everywhere I go and I'm very healthy for 55. Unfortunately, in my case I will have to use another drug that has a cross tolerance to benzo's, or just taper slowly in the next two years. Thanks for the advice, I didn't realize Phenibut was addicting.

    salgoud
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
  10. Tech House

    Tech House Titanium Member

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    Many people find relief from social anxiety by using beta blockers, but this should only be done after you've researched their effects and it's best to get them with a prescription rather than trying to go to some shady source. I don't even know if there's a black market for them, they're so common and non-scheduled, but just in case --- always wise to consult with a doc when taking a med of any kind.

    Why would beta blockers be effective? I'm too lazy to look that up but I would guess one reason is that they slow your heart rate (which can be dangerous for certain people) and lower your blood pressure. This probably reduces the self-reinforcing parasympathetic nerve "fight or flight" activity that is the physiological effect of social anxiety.

    I, too, have this anxiety and would love to find a "cure" for it that doesn't involve quick fixes. Like, why are we socially anxious? For me, it's probably a result of growing up with a father who had an explosive temper and was wildly unpredictable. My coping mechanism was to be on high alert to try to please him, pacify him and avoid his wrath. This made me way too concerned about what others think of me, even though other people aren't my father and don't pose a threat to me. In fact, mostly people don't care about anyone other than themselves most of the time, so we don't need to fear them but we do anyway. But just knowing the roots of our psychological issues doesn't necessarily help us to change. I wish it did!
     
  11. e_choco_o

    e_choco_o Silver Member

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    exactly, unfortunately a logical understanding of our issues has no direct effect on our programmed behaviour, yet is indeed one of the first steps in dealing with the fear. It actually kind of becomes a barrier later on, as I often took it as an excuse to be that way. I've changed a lot over the years (thanks to self help in great part to be honest) and I think I'm close to cracking it (no df.com pun intended) some drugs are great at showing oneself what one is capable of socially and in a way reveal oneself to oneself (ie alcohol). Hopefully, this fancy substances can softly land me into my confident self as I feel I'm about to reach shore. It's great to see others in the same boat.
     
  12. Tech House

    Tech House Titanium Member

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    I presume you mean that you have used the social anxiety to some advantage? I think we all do that and we become attached to our own suffering. It's twisted but makes sense; we adapt to our disabilities and the adaptation becomes the norm, to which we become attached. We have such a powerful desire to cling to our self-concept and our disabilities become a part of shaping the "self" as we know it. I had that issue with intense chronic pain, it became not only an excuse to feel fine about using opiates and muscle relaxers, it was also something I could use to my advantage. If I wanted an excuse not to do something then I just used the pain as my reason, even if it was a bullshit thing to do.
    I agree, any experience we have in an altered state, including states of mind that are changed by non-substance experiences or other causes, show us aspects of our own nature. In my own case, the most frequent situation in which I experience social anxiety is at AA meetings, especially if I'm chairing one, lol. It wouldn't really work to have a couple drinks before going to a meeting; gotta just put up with the anxiety for now. One thing that has helped me when chairing a meeting is to remind myself that I'm nobody special and nobody in the meeting cares about the way in which I conduct the meeting; we are all equal in that place and to be the chair is a voluntary act of service the same as cleaning the bathroom. So I think of myself as being a janitor or some other worker who is under no pressure to perform socially, and it really helps. Ego drives a lot of the anxiety; we're too concerned about what others think of us when, in fact, they're mostly too worried about what others think of THEM to bother with thinking about us!

    One of the moderators of this forum has a great signature, which I used as my Facebook status update yesterday:
    "Do not be so absorbed in the performance of your life that you fail to
    realize there is no audience."


    That received more responses than any status update I've ever posted, which was rather ironic!
     
  13. onzero

    onzero Silver Member

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    don't forget anxiety is often a fundamental part of our personality, it drives a lot of the really good things about us too, the best of us are all plagued by it.
     
  14. e_choco_o

    e_choco_o Silver Member

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    good point
     
  15. Tech House

    Tech House Titanium Member

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    Since my last post in this thread I've accumulated a lot of experience with phenibut, mostly taken at low doses before going to bed. I've found that it can be incredibly powerful for extending and improving the quality of sleep I get when taken at a dose of about 300mg, but if I use it one night and then take half that dose the next night I sleep very poorly. This has led me to believe that phenibut is extremely habit forming and I know that I've developed tolerance to it. I'm not tempted to increase dosage, however, because I love how well it works and I don't want to lose the effectiveness of phenibut to the demon of "more more more."

    I have a prescription for 7.5 mg diazepam (valium) and I take 5 mg a night, for a partial seizure disorder. I dropped my dose a long time ago because it's effective enough at the lower dose, and then I can save up the 2.5 mg pieces for use in controlling anxiety. The reason I'm mentioning this in a thread about phenibut and anxiety is that I have not yet used phenibut properly for social anxiety. Since the valium kicks in within about 20 minutes and is very reliable, I've depended on it for times when I feel jittery and anxious. If I take phenibut when I'm anxious, it's usually too late to stop the anxiety attack because phenibut takes soooo long to kick in. A good experiment, which I might try today, would be to take it a few hours before the anxiety-inducing situation. For me, this situation will be an AA meeting which I will chair if I am not too scared. By taking the phenibut at least 2 hours before the meeting, I think it should help me get over the fear of leading. But I'm a lightweight and won't be doing more than about 200mg of the stuff. I certainly don't want to feel doped-up at an AA meeting, right? Right.
     
  16. relate6163

    relate6163 Newbie

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    A level teaspoon is 5 grams & 2 two spoons is about right I think for some people. The effects are pretty strong but for some people enjoyable. Anxiety no longer exists in this case - which for people with significant anxiety such as social anxiety is very helpful especially before giving speeches, interviews, social interactions. The taste is not good so quickly swallowed with orange juice is better. Preferably mixed with a nootropic such as pirecetam, oxirecetam or the like.

    I don't perceive any withdrawal symptoms if I stop using it.
     
  17. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Are you suggesting 10 grams (2x 5gram) as a good dose?

    Thats an insane amount for most people, espicially for someone considering using it for the first time, like the OP was.

    Most people will fin 1 gram is plenty for the first time, and its recomended that someone probably starts out with half of that to test the water first.
     
  18. salgoud

    salgoud Newbie

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    I don't know what I got, but three 500mg pills gave me a feeling like I had narcolepsy. Weird stuff. It seems like it can be a good potentiator when mixed with other sedative type compounds.

    But 10 grams seems like a huge amount. Just by doing 1.5g I was uncontrollably nodding out on my computer.

    This stuff is gone now, and I don't think I'll order anymore. I see no advantage in it, unless mixed with something else and then used for a good night sleep. Seems to be very addicting.

    salgoud
     
  19. lil tay tay

    lil tay tay Newbie

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    My pet snake takes the liftemode brand of phenibut 3 times a week and has been taking it this way for the last 6 months at high doses without any problem and eachtime he takes it still has the same magic it did the very first time he took it...here is the trick so pay close attention..he takes phenibut Monday at 4 grams followed by 60 mg of DXM tuesday followed by 4 gram of phenibut that Wednesday followed by 60 mg of DXM Thursday followed by 4 grams of phenibut on friday followed by 60 mg DXM on saturday and take sunday off from both substances and then repeat the same agenda the following week....the treatment I have learned is that DXM keeps me for gaining any kind of phenibut tolerance what so ever...all I have to say is my life is great lol I am also juggling three girlfriends