Plant Alternatives to Opiates/Amphetamines?

Discussion in 'Ethnobotanicals' started by howlongisthenight, Nov 27, 2006.

  1. howlongisthenight

    howlongisthenight Newbie

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    Hey guys, I was wondering if there are any plants or herbs that give opiate-like effects. SWIM enjoys percocet, but doesnt break enough bones to get a supply (joke) After trying and failing to find this info on his own I will turn to the collective wisdom of the boards. I am also looking for an herbal alternative to adderall if anyone has information on that as well. Cheers!


    edit....ethobotanical board is better spot
     
  2. Abrad

    Abrad R.I.P. Platinum Member & Advisor R.I.P.

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    Re: Alternatives?

    You might find kratom worth looking at.
    Ephedra maybe?
     
  3. wellhelm

    wellhelm Silver Member

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    Re: Alternatives?

    Maybe kanna?
     
  4. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    Re: Alternatives?

    From the rules:

    • Use descriptive Topic Subject. This will help others find what they want to read. Topics with bad Topic subjects may be deleted! - there's nothing more annoying than looking at all those stupid "A stupid question" subject lines. I mean, I'm damn lazy, but how hard is it to type "A stupid question about (insert something here)"? As a rule of thumb, most thread titles should include the full name of the drug discussed.

    A rule many tend to forget will cause a mass of warnings soon...Rules are here:

    https://drugs-forum.com/wiki/The_Rules
     
  5. howlongisthenight

    howlongisthenight Newbie

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    Sorry for the breach of policy (newbs must getting annoying after awhile) and thank you for the better title. SWIM looked a little into ephedra and didnt really like what he saw...too many horror stories. I am currently going to look into kanna and hell let you know if he gets any. Any leads on a opiate alternative?
     
  6. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    As stated earlier - KRATOM. This is seriously as good/better than such as oxycodone. It will get a monkey the possibility of the death penalty in Thailand (it's home territory). Yet remains legal and available in the USA. Look up kratom in these forums. There is enough info to choke a rat.

    Seek & ye shall find.
     
  7. Paracelsus

    Paracelsus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Of course there are plants that give opiate-like effects. Try to look up Papaver somniferum. :D

    Cathinone (from Khat) is related to amphetamines and has stimulating properties.
    Wild lettuce (Lactuca virosa), the so-called "opium lettuce" is reported to have opiate-like effects. (can't tell anything from personal experience though).

    I personally think it's useless to find opium/amphetamine "substitutes". There is a general (useless) tendency to find "marijuana substitutes","heroin substitutes", etc. Every drug is unique, although some have similar effects. Just my opinion.
     
    1. 3/5,
      rofl
      Apr 11, 2007
  8. howlongisthenight

    howlongisthenight Newbie

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    Yea there is a ton of info on Kratom....and seeing how its on xxxxxxxxxx I will most likely check it out up close and personal. And paracelus you have a good point, legal bud is definately a joke and no two drugs are the same. I guess it just comes down to advailibility and legality. Legality isnt really a problem for swim(and i guess not advailibilty in adderalls case) But some drugs can be habit forming or cause unwanted side effects even though the lab rat may enjoy the desired effect, so they look for something similar. I guess you just gotta see what works for yourself.....


    Don't cite sources and or intent.
     
  9. Thirdedge

    Thirdedge Gold Member

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    Opium plant alternatives - Corydalis (claimed to be 1/10th the strength of morphine), Kratom, Other Poppies(like agremone mexicana, california, red, oriental, greater celandine etc), wild lettuce, blue lilly, white lilly, pedicularis. Kratom is the most effective of these.
    While many of the others are milder, they can often be potentiated by mixing with Cannabis.

    Amphetamine plant alternatives - Ephedra sp., Sida cordifolia, Bitter Orange, Khat, Coca, Kratom (small dose), Betal nut, Yerba mate, Guarana, Kolanut, Catuaba, Muira puama, Yohimbe (Carefull - MAOI), Tea, Coffee, Cocoa, Ginkgo. Many of these can be combined for stronger effects. Very small doses of some Psychedelics can also give an Amphetamine like effect, eg: 1 psycilocybe mushroom.
     
    1. 5/5,
      nice list of options, good concise answer
      Nov 29, 2006
  10. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    SWIM respectfully disagrees. Oxycodone is a powerful mu-opioid receptor agonist... the end. Commercial kratom leaf contains a mix of a small amount of 7-hydroxymitragynine (mu agonist) and a mix of other alkaloids that either have no opioid effects, primarily affect delta-receptors, or are even mu-opioid antagonists (corynantheidine).

    What is SWIM's sleep-deprived rant adding up to... merely an opinion that kratom is not as good/better than stuff like oxycodone, at least in terms of euphoric highs (probably more comparable to something like buprenorphine w/a jittery edge). It is pretty decent though, particularly considering the ease of acquiring some.

    Also, the dosage borderline between euphoria and extreme nausea/gastric shutdown can be very narrow. Caution is advised here... kratom OD's don't seem to be life threatening, but in SWIM's opinion very few chemicals are capable of producing this degree of abject misery and suffering when the proper dosage is exceeded.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2006
  11. Paracelsus

    Paracelsus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    If I remember correctly, yohimbine (the main yohimbe alkaloid) was thought to be a MAO inhibitor ("Legal Highs" by Twentieth Century Alchimist states this), but this was proven to be incorrect.

    And, no offense thirdedge, but even if the caffeine-containing plants you listed (Yerba, Guarana, Coffee, Cocoa, Tea, etc.) have stimulant effects, most wouldn't consider them amphetamine alternatives.

    By the way, are there any other plants known (except Papaver spp.) that produce opiates?
     
  12. Thirdedge

    Thirdedge Gold Member

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    Alternatives, not replicants.
    Although obviously diffrent in many ways Caffiene does share many of the traits of Amphetamines. High doses can be taken with something like passion flower to remove the anxiety. The main thing it lacks is euphoria making it less recreational, but it (Caffiene) should not be overlooked for staying awake, finishing that study or project etc.
     
  13. howlongisthenight

    howlongisthenight Newbie

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    Poppies......what a plant. I was wondering though....if it shouldnt be used for any purposes (as some people think) how come we have opiod receptors in the brain?
     
  14. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    Well ^^^ this argument can also be used for people killing themselves with strychnine: If we weren't supposed to die from strychnine poisoning, then why did God make it a poison?

    Just playing Devil's Advocate.
     
  15. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    It's not exactly a plant, but as You is in the USA he may find this thread to be of some interest.

    BTW, is there a specific reason why it would have to be herbal (other than the question fitting this particular forum)?
     
  16. howlongisthenight

    howlongisthenight Newbie

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    Ok for a ritalin alternative I am looking into: elevra
     
  17. Paracelsus

    Paracelsus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Because the human body synthesizes endorphines (endomorphines), which are endogenous (produced in the body) opioids which act on the different opiate receptors. Many other drugs are similar to endogenous substances, like tryptamines (similar to serotonin) and phenethylamines (similar to dopamine). That is why the human body responds to drugs. It's nothing like a symbiosis between humans and psychoactives :D
     
    1. 4/5,
      Good clear answer.
      Nov 29, 2006
  18. howlongisthenight

    howlongisthenight Newbie

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    cool info!