Please Help- making some changes in lifestyle and various meds

Discussion in 'General Addiction discussion' started by kemistudent, Apr 15, 2006.

  1. kemistudent

    kemistudent Silver Member

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    I don't want to get to deep into why I did what I did the other night, but lets just say alcohol may be a problem in my life, and when I drink alone I get lonely. I have been having relationship issues with my fiancee and I was hoping she was going to be moving in with me and she wasn't able to provide me an answer in the time I wanted so I found a place large enough for just myself. After drinking a lot of EtOH, I consumed an undetermined amount of klonopin and awoke the next day to my family at door. Apparently I made phone calls to everyone saying good bye. I had the fortunate oppertunity to listen to one of the messages I left and the tears wouldn't stop. I was ashamed, and couldn't believe I left those messages. I made no sense. I have never had a black out, until this night. Things need to change if I want to live.

    What have I done since then? I have cut Cymbalta (SSRI) medication in half and am currently weening off it, currently at 30mg, and tomorrow will be at 29mg, then -1 mg each day.

    For the first time in long time I went to the park today and ran 3 miles, stopping occasionally to catch my breath. I can't explain how good I felt after that. It started a chain reaction of events.

    I then kept that natural high going and went to the store and got an ab-roller. When I was younger I was very cut, and with all the beer I have dranken in the past 4 years have added a few lbs in one centralized location. The sad thing is, I have become self conscious about it and I think this has effected my self esteem.

    I picked up some Creatine and Siberian Root.

    My question is this. I am prescribed Adderall 30mg XR and could use that to give me the energy to workout, but I am concerned that it may put to much stress on my heart. Sometimes when I take adderall and just sit in front of the computer, my chest hurts, and im not even doing anything! I haven't taken the adderall in almost a week now. The only thing I am dependent on is the SSRI which I should be off in 30 days from now. I THINK that may be making me more depressed! I don't know.. but I do not want to be on anything that is playing with my brain. I have been on SSRI's for over 2 years. I was put on it because I promised my mother I would get help because of a serious THC addiction. I don't regret it, but I wonder what life would be like without the meds.

    I have been looking at this stuff called Explode, a staker used in combination with Creatine. Please contribute all you relevant info you can in regards to any of the above. I will truly appreciate it, thank you.

    -Kemi
     
  2. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    I see two major issues here:
    you's poly-drug use(including alcohol) leading to a delerium-blackout.
    you's possible heart condition. Did you ever go to the hospital to let them make a heart film?

    Exercise and cutting drug use drasticly seem like the obvious solution here. Review you's food & sleep as well if You wants to do this thoroughly. I would not take a stack, before You knows what the status of your heart is. I do not see a problem with creatine as long as taken with enough exercise.
     
  3. Forthesevenlakes

    Forthesevenlakes Platinum Member

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    I'm with alfa on this one. Get you's heart evaluated, and be honest with the doctors about prescription medications. Consider dropping the dosage of the Adderall XR as well, as far as I know, thats the highest dosage on the market, and such a daily regimen of amphetamines can't be easy on you's heart. Avoid the stackers, they're probably ephedrine or synephrine based, both of which will also cause undue stress on the heart and could interact negatively with the SSRIs and Adderall if You decides to take those again. Regular exercise and taking up some non-drug activities (making music, perhaps?) should also help with the depression, those can be just as rewarding. Sorry to proseletyze here, but hopefully some this advice helps. In the future, maybe also consider having someone You can trust hang on to any benzos or related compounds if You decides that he is going to drink that night. Funny things with depressants can happen that seem perfectly logical at the time, and awful in the morning. SWIM wishes you luck!
     
  4. kemistudent

    kemistudent Silver Member

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    I have been tested numerous times for high blood pressure and my cholesterol. My chlosterol was in the low 200's, but bare in mind I am 27, and I was eating a lot of shit food at that time. Blood pressure has always been borderline high.

    The blackout was very scary, and shocking, and I have only read of them until the other night.. Nothing I would ever like to experience again.
     
  5. Richard_smoker

    Richard_smoker Gold Member

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    Kemi, I'm sending you a PM. I don't know if you want to read what I have to say in a public forum...

    But for those who are curious &/or facing similar situations, I will say this:

    Essentially, my advice specifically regards your medications and your situation. Most of what you're describing (and have described in the past) are all things that I can relate to from both personal experience as well as the experience of others whom I have known very well.

    1. Cymbalta: don't stop it. not by yourself. i know what you're thinking about the SSRI's and how they might mess with your mind, but if you've been on them for 2 years, there is a REASON for this! simple, single episodes of depression are treated for 6 months, and up to 12 months. But repeated bouts with depression (essentially what is expected to be lifelong battles with depressive episodes) are the only depressive disorders that are treated with 2 years+ of SSRI's. In fact, the current recomendation is to continue anti-depressants for life. That is all I wish to post in public.

    Your problems are complex, but I think we can tackle them one-by-one. Alfa is on-target with his differential diagnosis. Sevenlakes is correct as well. Check your messages in about 10 minutes...
     
  6. old hippie 56

    old hippie 56 Gold Member

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    I had chest pains a while back, thought it might have been due to excessive use of amphs. Drs. done a echo test of heart. Nothing out of the ordinary. Ran a stress test also, cholesterol was a little high. Change my diet, cut my caffeine intake down, and cut back on the amph. Doing ok for now. Now, if I cut out them damn cigarettes.
     
  7. kemistudent

    kemistudent Silver Member

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    Richard, I appreciate your input. However I am fairly certain that I can tackle life without these SSRI's. The two years I have been on them I have been on numerous types. Cymbalta has only been the current SSRI for the past 6 months. I first was on Celexa for a month, then Effexor for a good 3-4 months, then the drug Mike Tyson had to take to refrain from killing people.. I cant recall, then paxil, and finally Cymbalta. I feel like a fuckin science experiment. Each time looking for life to get better and maybe, just maybe finding myself disapointed that the results were not what I was expecting, hence making the depression worse.

    I do not think people should just stop taking these meds without weening off them first and discussing this with their psych doctor. I already got reemed out by my doctor for what I did. My fiancee called him and left a real vulgar message on his voicemail. She doesn't think I have ADHD and is pissed he precribed me all these meds. I sadly admit, she may be right. I am too abusive to take adderall, the come down makes me want to take more and before you know it, I am up for days.

    I just got home after going for another very long walk, and during my walk I thought about something that should be apart of this web site. I think in the balance of things discussed at this web site, there should be a section dealing with physical health. A section that can be dedicated to discussion of healthy meal ideas and all around health issues.

    I am starving right now, and I want to eat something healthy and I could look around the internet for low fat meal ideas. If I actually follow through with this, and go to the store, get what I need, and make a great tasting low fat meal, it would be nice to share that idea.

    Most people into chemistry like to cook, no? :)
     
  8. kemistudent

    kemistudent Silver Member

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    3 days without a cig here, and let me tell you... last night goodfellas was on and I was so close to leaving the house to get a pack. Every scene someone is smokin! I haven't been able to stop thinkin about them till today, I think it's all mental after 3 days or so.
     
  9. bewilderment

    bewilderment Drug Geek Extraordinaire Platinum Member & Advisor

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    This is just a thought regarding your blackout but it may have had something to do with the Cymbalta. I'm not sure how this particular SSRI affects alcohol tolerance (and maybe it doesn't and this is irrelevant info), but when I was taking Zoloft I had a similar bizarre blackout after drinking. I only had two mixed drinks that night which certainly should not have made me black out as normally it wouldn't have even make me drunk. Apparently I virtually trashed a hotel room that night as I had taken a bath at some point and splashed water EVERYWHERE, not only was the bathroom drenched, but also a very big portion of the carpet in the main room was entirely saturated (we had to tell the hotel people that the toilet overflowed). I don't remember a thing, luckily my partner was there to tell me the events of the previous night or else I would've been completely confused. Anyway, after that night I looked up Zoloft and black outs and saw on a few forums where others had similar experiences. That was the only time I blacked out like that while on Zoloft and I drank regularly while taking it so it was strange that it only happened that one time. The only thing I can think of is that I hadn't slept the night before the incident so maybe the sleep deprivation played a role. Had you slept well the night before? Good luck with the depression and everything else as I can certainly empathize. Take care.
     
  10. Forthesevenlakes

    Forthesevenlakes Platinum Member

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    sleep deprivation could play a very important role, good call, bewilderment. I have had some very bizarre effects with mundane drugs ONLY when he hadnt slept the night before. so thats something to take into account too.
     
  11. kemistudent

    kemistudent Silver Member

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    Thanks for your kind words, and your shared experiences. :)

    The past few days have been very good indeed. Yesterday I was too sore to work out, and even today my legs are still sore from the numerous laps around the park. I am at 17mg of cymbalta, and by tomorrow I plan to get down to 10mg, then 5, then SSRI free by mid week. I have been taking 650mg of Siberian Root (Eleutherococcus Senticosus) and that has seemed to give me a little boost of energy in the morning.

    Since I didn't work out yesterday I didn't take any Creatine. I know there is a loading stage where one consumes (4) 5mg doses per day for a week, but I don't understand why I would do this if my day consists of walking around the mall trying to get along with the fiancee. I would take some today, but I am already beat from church and have the whole family Easter dinner thing tonight. I feel a nap is in order, maybe then some ab-rolls and curls before dinner.

    I am kind of hesitant about the Creatine.. I already have 2 pimples since I took it the other night and I never get pimples. Thats why I stopped taking it 5 years ago when I was into being fit. It gave me horrible acne. I thought I could give it another go, maybe it's better to go el, natural. ?
     
  12. kemistudent

    kemistudent Silver Member

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    So as of today I am totally off my SSRI's and I feel fine. I went to a new doctor who deals with depression. My fiancee kinda screwed things up for me at my last doc's with a vulgar message on his answering machine, and I promised after the blackout incident I would get a second opinion. I haven't had a cig, not even a drag, since that night 6 days ago, tomorrow will be a week without anything. No EtOH, no adderall, nothing.

    So I tell the doctor today that I have a real problem getting to sleep, and if I were to take any medication I would be willing to take ambien or the like, a sleeping med. I really wanted xanax for bed time, but this doctor feels as though I shouldn't use any benzo's because of the way I can get when on them. I can be very mean and nasty verbally with people I care about when the weather is right on benzo's, however, the odd's are more likely that will happen on xanax or ativan, than klonopin.

    So after 2 hours of talking and having doctors confrence with each other over my situation, they write me a 7 day script for Seroquel. They asked me if I knew what it was and I said I heard of it, and they didn't explain WHAT it is. I just assumed it was another sleep med, trazodone like..

    I just went to the manufactures web site and it says:


    Welcome to the SEROQUEL.com Web site. Schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are two different mental disorders that affect millions of people in the United States. The navigation buttons above will enable you to find information about these illnesses, as well as information about the medication SEROQUEL. SEROQUEL is a psychotropic medication shown to be effective in the treatment of many symptoms of schizophrenia, as well as in the treatment of acute mania associated with bipolar I disorder. Thank you for your interest.


    Now im like whoa whoa whoa, Schizo??? WTF!? Anyone know why they would prescribe such a drug? 100mg is the dosage prescribed, 7 doses, and they said to take it "as needed". My next appointment is in 13 days.
     
  13. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    Seroquel is being prescribed willy-nilly right now for a variety of applications it was not designed for, or approved of treating. Quite commonly this includes sleep. It's gotten as bad as what happened with prozac et all being prescribed by doctors for women's dogs that bark at night.

    Seroquel's dangers are just now becoming known to mail-stream doctors and include causing diabetes and kidney damage. There is a class-action lawsuit in the works.

    I would tell your doctor where to put his seroquel. You'd be better off with some sominex and warm milk IMHO.
     
  14. bewilderment

    bewilderment Drug Geek Extraordinaire Platinum Member & Advisor

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    My partner was on seroquel for awhile and said that it was fine and helped out with sleep quite a bit. She said that her dosage was a small one around 25mg. I think it would be worth it if you're having a really hard time with insomnia. I assume that you've maybe tried the OTC sleep meds? I've had insomnia for as long as I can recall. I've found that all OTC sleep medications contain one of two active ingredients so I usually buy one of both and alternate every other night so that they don't lose their effectiveness.
    I would give the seroquel a try for a little while and if you notice anything bad then stop immediately. I've found in the past that sleep deprivation can lead to some psychotic symptoms. There are also a bunch of studies saying that it makes depression worse and could even be a precursor and not vice versa as has been previously believed for so long.

    Have you seen the crazymeds website?
    I've always found that to be a useful website since it's not affiliated with any sort of pharmaceutical company. I'd also suggest that if you're not satisfied with your therapist then you should do a little shopping around because the results you get with one therapist compared to another can be drastically different. I've been struggling with mental illness for quite some time...I actually had a couple of years where it was completely eliminated from my life and I must say that those two or so years were ALMOST worth the many years I spent with the illness because they were SO amazing in comparison. I think laying off the drugs is definately a good thing and you're very wise in taking this on without them.

    Also, I notice your username, are you still in college? I was majoring in biology when my depression resurfaced after being latent for a couple years and I know that anyone who is majoring in any sort of science has a grueling schedule so if you are still dealing with some stressful schedule it might be good to take some time off with a medical withdrawal. That's what I did, anyway and it's a pretty simple process and it sped up my recovery process so very much. The only mistake I made was going back to school earlier than I should have and now I'm out on a break again...this time I've waited a year and hopefully I'll be more prepared when I go back. I'm pretty sure I will be. Also, when I asked my partner about the seroquel thing she told me that I could give you her email address because she's been on a variety of meds because she's bipolar and could probably give some advice if you ever encounter any freaky side effects...she is also prescribed adderall xr so there's some similarity there (even though I know you've discontinued that).

    In any case, I wish you the best of luck because mental illness is just a very horrible thing and most people just don't understand.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2014
  15. kemistudent

    kemistudent Silver Member

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    Thanks for your response bewilderment. I will give it a shot tomorrow night. I didn't feel it was worth the trip to the pharmacy to pick up today, so tomorrow night I will try it. 100mg is a hefty dose from what I gather, I will see how it is dispensed and try 50mg at first.

    I think I may have the wrong idea about this medication. Is it supposed to be taken "as needed" and if you were taking it for schizo, or manic depression, would you become physically addicted to it, like SSRI's? Is it anything like SSRI medication in that regard?

    [edit] I just read at the provided link above that the drug is great if you want to sleep till next tuesday. I have so many drugs in my medicine cabinet like that, and that is why I don't take them. Trazadone and Doxepin being 2 that really knock me out for a long while, and when I come too, motivation to get out of bed is just not there, unless I am really hungry or have to urinate.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2006
  16. bewilderment

    bewilderment Drug Geek Extraordinaire Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Yeah, I have heard that it can knock you out cold. I certainly wouldn't take 100mg, my partner said she started with 25mg and I read that for insomnia it's best to take 25-50mg. If I were you, I'd just take the 25mg and then take the other half if it's not working. I understand about being groggy, but I'd think that you would get used to it just like people gain a tolerance to just about anything. But, I have no experience with seroquel personally. I once was prescribed remeron for insomnia and it completely knocked me out and made me very groggy the next day, but after awhile it didn't work at all so maybe seroquel is similar, I don't know. I don't know of any medication which actually works for insomnia and doesn't make you groggy the next day except for maybe benzos...I think that more than likely you'll just have to suffer through the grogginess for just a a little while and then it'll probably go away.

    The only thing I don't like is when a therapist prescribes something for sleep which is primarily used to treat mental illness other than insomnia. It just seems unnecessary to play around with other stuff in your brain when you don't have to. I wonder if there's any reason for that other than them being pill-happy. But, if that's all he'll give you then I guess it's best to work with it and see what happens and just keep close watch on any psychological changes.

    I don't know much about the withdrawals. I did a quick search though and I see that some people do go through withdrawals, but some don't (like most drugs I suppose).
     
  17. kemistudent

    kemistudent Silver Member

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    I just wanted to update this thread in the event anyone else thinks they can play tough guy with their SSRI's and ween off a hefty dose in 7 days flat.

    My advice, don't do it. You have nothing to prove to yourself or anyone else and if you are weak minded you may easily do something that is irreversible.

    I had this crazy idea that somehow getting off my meds in 7 days would make me like new again, and infact, it has shocked my body physically and mentally. It does feel good to know I have not used a single drug, other than seroquel once, in the past 8 days now and 2mg of klonopin in a failed attempt to make me tired, earlier today. This all came at a hefty price and if you have PATIENCE (which I SERIOUSLY lack) then you can be at the same place I am at, without the mental anguish and physical withdrawls.

    So with that, Richard, I regrett to inform myself, you were right. I should not have weened off at such a rate. My doctor suggested 2 months to ween off, I opted for 1 week. Bad idea.

    Tonight I will be taking a few left over Rozerems to get to bed as I haven't slept in 36 hours. All I have eated is 4 veggie burgers, 6 eggs, some organic corn chips and lots and lots of water. No stimulants of any kind.. does this seem normal? Nope, it's not. And thats what I mean. This is enough to make you think very irrationally and if you are dealing with relationship stuff, it makes it dreadful.

    Please learn from my mistakes if you decide to try life without SSRI medication.
     
  18. Richard_smoker

    Richard_smoker Gold Member

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    Kemi, care for an update?

    I'm concerned... as I'm sure others are as well.

    Did you restart the anti-depressant? or are you floundering around in depression???

    Also, did you ever try the seroquel to sleep? I would be surprised if you couldn't find a correct size "bite" of each pill to give yourself just enough sleep without making you sleep 'till tuesday.

    Many people find that seroquel is a god-send in the sleep department.

    Let us know. -Dick
     
  19. kemistudent

    kemistudent Silver Member

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    Hey Richard!

    I have been very overwhelmed the past few days moving from point A -> B and trying to find the time to get my school work done at the same time. It feels like there aren't enough hours in the day, and while I have been awaking at a decent hour (9-10am) I just find that I have little time to relax. To top it off, it has been so nice out the past few days and SMA (sweaty mover ass) has been out in full effect.

    I may be able to contribute the all day physical work (moving way too much shit) to my ability to fall asleep at a decent hour without medication. This is hard to prove at this point because I am still feeling changes from the boycott of my medication. As of three days ago the dizzy spells have gone away entirely.

    Here is what I have learned so far after paying close attention to my behavior the past 2 weeks. I am very short fused with everyone and everything. I am either super happy times ten, or I am ready to throw in the towel. The up time is around 90-95% of my waking hours, and the down time has been triggered by what I perceive at the time to be a huge obstacle, when in reality is not nearly as big as a obstacle.

    Ie, the other day I missed a midnight deadline for a english paper I needed to hand in. I had the oportunity to secure an A (90+%) in the class and because I had my internet switched that day to my new place I was unable to send the work to the professor and ultimately screwed myself. I called up my fiancee buggin out about how life sucks and I don't know why I am even bothering with school, and how nothing ever goes smoothly, etc. bitch complain, etc.. and then I finally calm down and realize it's not the end of the world and that if I get a B in the class, life is not going to end.

    A few days later I missed a class because I was stuck waiting for a utilities person for the electric to get turned on. My anxiety was through the roof because of that, and once again, all the same complaints/thoughts on life consumed me.

    I expressed all of this to the doctor I am seeing. She suggested that I may have manic depression to a lesser extent. Because these low points only last for a short period of time she didn't want to stick that lable on me. I later looked into "bi polar/manic dep" and in a sad way I must say that the symptoms I read about are kind of what I feel. I seem to really bug the fuck out when bad shit happens. My temper is much too short and although I never get physically violent I have a tendency to be brutal verbally, a quality I need to eliminate.

    Cure? I do realize after a few minutes of bugging out that I am overreacting and that maybe "whatever it is" isn't that big of a deal. Maybe identifying this behavior when it occurs will help me curb this behavior all together. I don't know.. The doctor asked me if I had ever been on TriCyclic Anti-deps and after she named a few I told her I hadn't. She said they are "mood stabilizers" and was unable to tell me if they posed a physical addiction risk as did the SSRI's. I refuse to be on any meds like that again. I feel much more in touch with my feelings today, than I did a month ago. I also feel happier, although that could be because the weather has been so much nicer and the sun has been out. I may be somewhat susceptible to SAD (seasonal affective disorder, ie, lacking vitamid D and whatnot)

    I also seem to be getting along A LOT better with my fiancee and that means more play time. I don't know why she is the first person I call when something happens and I flip out, but she seems to know me better than I know myself so it's not much of a burdeon to her and she does put me in my place when I get overly out of control. It seems like this progression is hard to control when I start on a bitching rant. It's like a tea pot getting warmer and warmer and finally blowing.. but then comes the calm. I need to be able to control that prior to it getting to that stage.

    Today on the phone I told a rep at Western Union to go fuck herself.. A few minutes later I felt bad for that and called back and told another rep what I had just said to one of their co-workers and that while I think the 1st rep is an inherent bitch, it was rude of me to tell her to go fuck herself. The rep then asked for my transfer control number and I felt as though that was an acceptance of my apology, this helped me to feel better and I noted this behavior for my next doctor visit.

    The doc did prescribe me hydroxyzine 50mg for sleep. I have only taken it once and it was similiar to the way benadryl makes me feel. Not too grogy the next day either.. not bad.

    Probably more info than you wanted =P

    How are things your way? :)
     
  20. old hippie 56

    old hippie 56 Gold Member

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    Glad to hear that things are coming together for you. About losing your temper, I taught myself to look at the reasoning of being mad, the end results, then realized that 70% of my temper tantrums was over the little stuff. Been working on my temper for years, it so much better now than it was 10 yrs. ago.