Please help with Ketamine main page for this site

Discussion in 'Ketamine' started by Beltane, Feb 1, 2007.

  1. Beltane

    Beltane Palladium Member

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    I'm writing the Ketamine info pages for this site and I could use some help. I'm shooting for something similar to the Kratom page found here: https://drugs-forum.com/kratom.html

    The first page is the entitled 'Main Ketamine Page.' Below is a first draft of that page. Please read and critique for content, structure, grammar, spelling and whatever else would make it better.

    Thanks-

    - Beltane


    Main Ketamine Page

    Ketamine is a fast-acting dissociative anesthetic. Unlike traditional anesthetics, Ketamine works by essentially “cutting off” the brain from the body. With no external stimulation being delivered to the brain from the nervous system, perception increases to fill the gap left by the missing senses giving rise to a hallucinogenic state. First discovered in 1961, by 1970 Ketamine was being used as a safe anesthetic, most often in children and the elderly. Ketamine is used primarily and extensively in veterinary medicine, but is still popular for use in humans in so-called third-world countries. When used recreationally, Ketamine can come in powder, tablet or liquid for and can be administered orally, through insufflation, intramuscularly or intravenously. Intravenous use of Ketamine is not recommended for recreational users.


    Ketamine
    2-(2-chlorophenyl1)-(methylamino)-cyclohexanone hydrochloride
    C13H16ClNO

    Effects

    The primary use of Ketamine is as an injectable anesthetic, but in sub-anesthetic doses, it produces a profound dissociative effect, also known as an “emergent” state. This state is often described as ego-loss and is often said to be similar to accounts of out-of-body experiences or near-death experiences.
    Taken intramuscularly, the Ketamine comes on quickly with an initial onset of about two minutes. Nasal doses come on slower at 5 – 10 minutes and oral doses slower still at closer to 15 – 20. Expect IM doses to last about an hour and oral doses up to 2 – 3. The first feelings are a warmish, all-over body tingle and overall sense of relaxation not dissimilar to nitrous oxide. From there, the effects of the Ketamine grow in waves or K-waves as they’re often called. Taken intramuscularly, Ketamine will be in full effect by the 10 minute mark.
    The peak comes at 12 – 25 minutes and holds steady for another 20. At the height of a Ketamine trip, a person will feel completely removed from body and surroundings. Descriptions of the peak experience vary widely, but often include alternate planes of existence, dazzling insights, powerful hallucinations, communication with various entities, a sense of oneness and connectedness and a merging of past, present and future. During a Ketamine trip it can be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to communicate. Walking or moving around in general can be nearly impossible and is not recommended. To the outside observer, Ketamine users will seem to fall into a deep trance state. Having a sitter around who is familiar with the effects of Ketamine can be highly beneficial. The comedown off Ketamine happens gently but rapidly once it’s begun.
    Though the Ketamine experience can be on par with other powerful psychedelics such as LSD and mushrooms, there is a much lower potential for fear or freaking out, making Ketamine less scary to experience. One of the most commonly reported side effects of the Ketamine experience is a decreased fear of death.
    Links:

    Ketamine: Dreams and Realities (http://www.maps.org/kdreams/)
    Dr. Karl Jansen’s excellent reference book on Ketamine

    Go to dissociatives forum (https://drugs-forum.com/forums/24)
    Dissociatives forum of https://drugs-forum.com

    Go to the Ketamine forum (https://drugs-forum.com/forums/92)
    Ketamine forum of https://drugs-forum.com

    Erowid – Ketamine (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ketamine/)
    Ketamine vault of erowid

    Lycaeum- Ketamine Page (http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=148)
    Main Ketamine page at lycaeum.org
     
  2. arman

    arman Titanium Member

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    I think you mean "liquid form" (instead of "liquid for").
    And it should be noted that IV ketamine is not dangerous by itself, but it is dangerous because it has a very rapid onset (10-15sec) and the user may lose consciousness before drawing the needle out. Ketamine commonly used intravenously for inducing anaesthesia in hospitals.

    Ketamine is in no way less scary than LSD or shrooms, I think ketamine does not have lower potential for fear, SWIM heard many people who overwhelmed by ketamine powerful psychedelic state, including SWIM himself. Although the user may not be able to physically do anything, he may experience the worst nightmare of his life.
    The difference is that once the user get used to ketamine psychedelic state there will be almost no bad-trip or such.
     
  3. Beltane

    Beltane Palladium Member

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    I have extensive experience with LSD, mushroom, DMT, ayahuasca and other similar halucinogens. I also have very extensive experience with Ketamine both as a traveller and a sitter. I have seen exactly one bad K-trip and that was over almost before it started.

    I will add something like what you've posted here with regards to the concept that after getting used to the psychadelic state, bad trips are virtually non-existent.

    Thanks for your comments-

    - Beltane
     
  4. toe

    toe Gold Member

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    While this Americanization is in common use and is in no way wrong, it might be stylistically preferable to employ the British English spelling of the word "anaesthetic" when writing to an international audience.

    If possible I'd advise developing this further. The first sentence really is not true as it's written, since bamboozling the nerves that transmit the "physical" pain message, thus derailing it before it can reach the brain seems to be just about th most common form of anaesthesia from the Iron Age on. Thus it doesn't make sense to a lay reader as an explanation for the diss effects of K- otherwise anyone who'd ever received a nerve block would have an excessive and possibly inappropriate relationship with Adult Swim. So it would be great if you could flesh this out.

    This is almost too petty for mention. But you're not referring to a trade name; technically the uppercase "K" should only be used at the beginning of a sentence.

    If you don't feel comfortable using the term "3rd world", then don't. Phrases like "developing world" "economic (or political) instability, "fewer resources", "less developed technology" (and so forth) could all be subbed in. However, with the phrase "so-called", the reader gets the sense that the writer wishes not to acknowledge stratification in our society, and perhaps even belittles those who opt to consider it. Presumably those who come to learn about substances on DF are already self-aware enough to know that (ab)use and addiction issues are impervious to political boundaries.

    Shit, would love to keep looking over this at the moment, as I see promise of a real repository of K history and I know the job is large, so thanks. Consciousness and coherency are proving a pretty big job for me right now, though. So if this was less annoying than useful, I'll look forward to checking in later to follow up.


    [/quote]
     
  5. asplinteredfawn

    asplinteredfawn Newbie

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    You should change the part that says "Intravenous use of Ketamine is not recommended for recreational users." because I am a frequent ketamine user and this is the way he uses it 90% of the time.
     
  6. Paracelsus

    Paracelsus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Does that make it recommended? IV is still the most dangerous way to administer ketamine.
     
  7. enquirewithin

    enquirewithin Gold Member

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    Ketamine was designed for IM injection, ,which means its a relatively safe means of administration (as long as one is careful about sterility of your equipment and in choosing injection sites, it is probably less dmaging than snorting it). A good reason for mot IVing ketamine is that it comes on too fast, thereby making accidents much easier to happen (falling over and damaging yourself is a banal but common danger of ketamine use.) My little pony has IVed k but by accident, by not checking that he'd not hit a vein. The effects are intense and rapid, but the duration of IMing K too short anyway.
     
  8. ThirdEyeFloond

    ThirdEyeFloond Platinum Member & Advisor

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    When IV'ing ketamine there is also the risk of stopping breathing for a short while if injected too fast.

    (from 'Ketamine: dreams and realities' page xxx)

    I agree that the IV route isn't recomendable for K, he has tried it twice once deliberately and once by accident, it peaks fast and gives a sort of coke-ish initial rush, but the duration is much too short and IM is soo much better (and safer).
     
  9. asplinteredfawn

    asplinteredfawn Newbie

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    I guess, being a heroin addict in hiatus; SWIM just prefers I.V. use of Ketamine. You all are forgetting that a vial of Ketamine comes in different concentrations, anywhere from the measly, yet easily titrated and dosed 10mg/ml all the way up to 100mg/ml. I would have to agree with you all that injecting ala the intravenous route is a bit more risky and I has experienced the negative consequences that come along with intravenous use of Ketamine. ex. a one cc pull from a 100mg/ml vial administered intravenously. Yet, I have PERSONALLY found both the 10mg/ml and the 50mg/ml concentrated preparations to produce no ill effects when injected intravenously; many brands even list I.M. and I.V. use as the only method of consumption on the box, literature, and label on the bottle.

    Sure, I would have to agree with you all as much as SWIM hates to, for the sake of harm reduction and general safety. But SWIM, as a near daily Ketamine user, nearly always injects a 3cc pull of a *brand name omitted according to forum regulations* 50mg/ml, human grade, Ketamine HCl base preparation, administered with preferably a luer lock, yet luer slip will suffice, 3cc sterile needless syringe, with a 30 gauge x 1 inch needle equipped via either luer lock or luer slip depending on the syringe. This is and has been SWIM's choice method of consumption for years. Yet, I have found the 30g x 1 luer lock/slip needle a hard item to acquire, so the next narrow gauge locatable will do, but don't be an idiot and use something like a 24g x 1 1/2 needle for intravenous use. On that note, you may even go against using a 30g needle with such a large syringe. I get by using 30g needles but with the larger syringes perhaps a 27g or 28g if you can locate them, would be more suitable.

    Just understand that it's easier to damage yourself with a wider gauge needle, but it's also harder to register and inject anything more than 1cc of a solution without a considerable amount of time passing, before the entire contents can be administered. You won't be able to just push down on the plunger without effort like you would be able to with, say a 1/2cc 29/30g or 1cc 29/30g insulin syringe. Also, you don't want to be shooting the solution out of the needle at the PSI of a power washer either. With anything higher than the 10mg/ml concentrations this will cause you to start reaching disorienting effects before finishing your injection, obviously this is makes administration that much harder, not to mention once the entire dose is administered you're more than likely shit out of luck, stuck in a K hole with a syringe dangling out of your arm. As SWIM just dictated, this route of administration can be considerably dangerous if you're administering a K-hole or Anesthetic dose with anything besides a 10mg/ml preparation.

    So, in the name of safety perhaps start with a wider gauge needle for your syringe, but nothing over 27g is at all recommended for any sort of intravenous use. You most likely will not be able to register let alone make insertion into a vein, without rupturing or perhaps severing or even collapsing it. With higher concentrated preparations SWIM prefers the use of a 5cc needless sterile luer lock syringe, equipped with a 24-27 gauge x 1 1/2 inch needle and then administered via I.M. injection. Although the 100mg/ml preparations may be diluted with sterile saline if you prefer an I.V. injection, as I do.

    I find that both I.M. and I.V. administration results in the same length of peak effects. The only reason an I.M. injection would lasts longer is if you're counting the time it takes to reach peak plasma concentrations. So unless, you are not a seasoned Ketamine user or aren't the type that enjoys a rush, then in My opinion it is the superior route of administration. SWIM compares it to, being shot into space on a psychedelically charged rocket then once passing outer orbit, you are slowly left to drift about in you're own madness.

    Have a good time, learn something, comeback with more than a smile on your face; above all, BE SAFE and BE INFORMED. Before SWIM forgets, NEVER inject Ketamine either I.V. or I.M. standing up or without being supported ex. laying down in a bed, sitting in a stable arm chair or couch, even get down on the floor if you have to before you get off; cos' you'll end up their anyways if you don't and it won't be voluntarily or a easy grounding.

    St. Matthew Hart AKA ASplinteredFawn AKA EKKOTheDolphin
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2008
  10. podge

    podge Gold Member

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    In relation to bad experiences.....I think that fear felt on K doesnt translate in into sober life afterwards the way a bad experience on LSD or Mushrooms has the potential to.

    ie, when the experience is over any fear that may have been present during the trip will have passed and will be very difficult if not impossible to remember in a way which can be harmfull to mental well being. There may be a vague recolection but nothing substantial enough to traumatise one so to speak.
     
  11. Paracelsus

    Paracelsus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Then how can you recall that anything more than subtle anxiety was present?
     
  12. podge

    podge Gold Member

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    Its difficult for sure, thats swims point. I have experienced fear on Ket but never been emotionally rattled the day after....unlike bad experiences with phenethylamines or tryptamines. And for and swim and most others Ketamine is much more powerful than "classic" psychedelics - the highs are higher, and inversely the lows are lower.

    But I find K gentle enough mentally after the experience is over. Usually any negative feelings are temporary or fleeting while in the K-hole, and for swim negative feelings or thoughts always have been resolved before the trip ends.