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Drug info - Please review: Psilocybe Mushroom Use Basics

Discussion in 'Magic Mushrooms (Psilocybe & Amanita)' started by Alfa, May 5, 2005.

  1. Phungushead

    Phungushead Twisted Depiction Staff Member Administrator

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    The dose chart above is in grams; while if you's got an eighth it's dealing
    with ounces.

    An 1/8oz = 0.125oz = ~3.54g.

    So, using the values in listed in the dosage chart for dried p. cubensis as
    an example:

    1.25g = 0.044oz
    2.5g = 0.088oz
    3.75g-5g = 0.132oz-0.176oz
     
  2. Sir Maximuus

    Sir Maximuus Newbie

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    But, what exactly are the commas for? 7,5 grams. 2,5 grams. 2,4-3,2 grams etc.

    7 or 5 grams? 7.5 grams?
     
  3. Phungushead

    Phungushead Twisted Depiction Staff Member Administrator

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    7,5g = 7.5g.

    I changed the commas in the chart to decimals.
     
  4. Sir Maximuus

    Sir Maximuus Newbie

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    Okay, thanks.
     
  5. chinpokomaster

    chinpokomaster Palladium Member

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    Do these weights include the stipes or just caps?
     
  6. Shampoo

    Shampoo entity of sorts Staff Member

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    The weights listed are for whole fruiting body. Psilocybin is evenly distributed throughout the fruiting body, and is not concentrated in the cap, so these values should be applicable to stalks alone, caps alone, or a combination of the two.
     
  7. chinpokomaster

    chinpokomaster Palladium Member

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    Well, I would like to add that SWIM yesterday tried 1.25 grams of dried Psilocybe Semilanceata. The peak effect was about 3 to 4 hours, trailing off over the hours following. SWIM tells me this is what he'd consider to be a good, full dose. He had a fun and visual trip but with no discomfort or unwanted side-effects. I am 23 (I'm 22 ;)), male, weighs about 13 stone and is a little over 6ft tall.
     
  8. chinpokomaster

    chinpokomaster Palladium Member

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    I'd be interested to know if anyone can help fill in the following at all....

    Species Beginners dose fresh Beginners dose dry Full dose fresh Full dose dry Massive dose fresh Massive dose dry
    Psilocybe caerulescens ? ? ? ? ? ?
    Psilocybe cyanescens ? ? ? ? ? ?
    Psilocybe cyanofriscosa ? ? ? ? ? ?
    Psilocybe zapotecorum ? ? ? ? ? ?


    Thank you to anyone who can contribute in any way.
     
  9. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Psilocybin Mushroom Handbook (L.G. Nicholas and Kerry Ogame) has a 'Recommended Dosages by Species' table towards the back of the book.

    I am not good at creating tables and thinks he would be better off scanning the information than trying to type it out. It gives Low/Medium/High Doses for 6 Species and it includes Dried grams/kg body weight as well as Total Dried grams/80kg male adult.

    Swim will figure out some way of posting the information for You here and maybe they can use it to fill in some of the spaces on their chart.

    Great idea for a thread by the way:thumbsup:

    ianzombie added 10 Minutes and 40 Seconds later...

    Well this is the best Swim can manage on the camera, seems clear enough to Swim. You should be able to fill in some of the information from this.

    It might not show up straight away as its just been uploaded and still needs to be moderated.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
  10. chinpokomaster

    chinpokomaster Palladium Member

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    Press the quote button and you will see the table format. That's what I did to Alfa's post.
     
  11. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Recomended Dosage by Species for 80kg male adult
    Doses Wet vs Dry based on Fresh Mushrooms being approximately 90% Water

    Species Low dose fresh Low dose dry Medium dose fresh Medium dose dry High dose fresh High dose dry
    Psilocybe azurescens 3.6 0.36 9.0 0.9 18.0 1.8
    Psilocybe subaeruginosa 5.0 0.5 12.5 1.25 25.0 2.5
    Psilocybe cyanescens 6.0 0.6 15.0 1.5 30 3.0
    Psilocybe bohemica 7.0 0.7 17.0 1.7 34 3.4
    Psilocybe cubensis 10.0 1.0 25.0 2.5 50.0 5.0
    Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa 40.0 4.0 100.0 10 200.0 20
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  12. chinpokomaster

    chinpokomaster Palladium Member

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    Awesome, that's one of the species SWIM needed covering covered! Cheers, mate.
     
  13. SWIMclub

    SWIMclub Newbie

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    You on another board here was saying firmly that 'shrooms aren't poisonous. I know that *some* 'shrooms are poisonous... and I had the impression that it's *because* it's toxic that it produces hallucinations (varying in affects by strain, etc.)

    Clarifications, please?
     
  14. Phenoxide

    Phenoxide Super Moderator Staff Member

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    You was quite right to suggest psilocybe mushrooms are not poisonous. Yes, there are some fungi that are poisonous. Several species of Amanita, in particular A. phalloides (death cap) and A. virosa (destroying angel) are deadly toxic. Many species of mushrooms from other families also cause a range of liver and kidney problems of varying severity. The Psilocybe family of fungi are not poisonous however.

    The effects of psilocin are not the result of toxicity, nor related to it in any way. Psilocin primarily mediates its effects by mimicry of the neurotransmitter serotonin, and agonism (activation) of the 5-HT2A (serotonin) receptor subtype of neurons. The levels of alkaloids present in psilocybe mushrooms, and their mechanism of action are physiologically very well tolerated. There have been no reports of deaths which can be directly attributed to an overdose of psilocybe mushrooms.

    Some of the confusion here may stem from the fact that analytical-grade (i.e. near-pure) psilocybin sold for research purposes has in previous years been classified on the MSDS as 'toxic' or 'poison'. This is a cautionary status based on the fact that the median lethal dose (LD50) of pure psilocybin in rabbits was found to be approximately 12.5mg/kg. The rabbit is an unusually sensitive animal model, but even if the toxic dose was similar for humans that would still require a huge quantity of mushrooms. The estimated LD50 in rats was found to be closer to 280mg/kg. To put that figure into perspective the lethal dose for caffeine in rats was around half as much. Fortunately we don't brand caffeine is poisonous and ascribe the caffeine buzz to toxicity.

    However given the inconsistencies between the two animal models it was stuck with a 'toxic' or 'poison' label because the lethal dose in humans is simply unestablished. It also suffered from the bias that psychoactivity was often branded a 'toxic' effect, regardless of mechanism. These days the MSDS for psilocybin doesn't even recommend safety gloves must be worn all the time! :laugh:

    Theoretically continuous exposure to pure psilocybin in a short space of time may have adverse toxic effects (most likely respiratory failure), but this would require levels of psilocybin so high that the equivalent dose in mushrooms would require a person to eat many kilograms. By my reckoning that makes the physiological 'safety window' for psilocybin far wider than for any psychoactive prescription medication.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2010
  15. SWIMclub

    SWIMclub Newbie

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    SWIM appreciates the info. (The You referred to, btw, just said "'shrooms", didn't specify what type, which is why I objected. It's dangerous to say that 'shrooms aren't dangerous to eat.:) )

    The info provided leads SWIM to further questions though:

    If it's serotonin, the feel-good stuff, then why is it also creating hallucinations, and

    Just being serotonin, I could expect a crash, but why would some people have bad trips on serotonin?

    So it seems to SWIM that there must be SOMEthing else involved in the 'shroom experience. Can ya edjamacate SWIM some more? Thanks!
     
  16. Phenoxide

    Phenoxide Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Just to clarify psilocin is not the same as serotonin. Serotonin is 5-hydroxytryptamine, whereas psilocin is 4-hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine. They're structurally very similar, so this allows the drug to mimic serotonin in many respects.

    In the normal nervous system, the release of neurotransmitters like serotonin is exquisitely controlled. As soon as pulses of serotonin are released to transduce a signal from one neuron to another, metabolic enzymes such as monoamine oxidase kick in to start breaking it down immediately. This helps to prevent overstimulation. Neurotransmitters are very susceptible to this enzymatic activity and are very quickly degraded. DMT is an example of a drug which can suffer the same fate. If taken orally without a monoamine oxidase inhibitor it too is efficiently degraded before it has a chance to create a notable psychoactive effect.

    There are also protein 'pumps' on neurons which promote the re-uptake and recycling of serotonin from the synaptic junction. These are the targets for the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) class of antidepressants, which basically work by keeping the concentrations of serotonin at certain synaptic junctions higher than they'd normally be.

    Psilocin is more stable than serotonin so is not cleared as rapidly as the endogenous neurotransmitters are. The concentration of psilocin in an active dose is also huge compared to the concentrations of neurotransmitters normally released by synapses in the brain, so it effectively swamps the brain with 5-HT2A mediated activity. This hyperactivity is what creates the psychedelic effect. They'll also be minor differences in the affinity and binding properties of psilocin/receptor interaction, which may subtlely influence the transduced signals, but these are poorly characterized.

    Similar effects might be observed if serotonin concentrations were kept at unnaturally high levels. Hallucinations for example are a known symptom of serotonin syndrome. The problem here is that there are other serotonin receptors subtypes (5-HT1A, 5-HT2B, 5-HT2C etc.) which all create different physical and psychological effects. A generalized increase in serotonin levels would be quite different to the 5-HT2A specific activation by psilocin, and also potentially fatal. Serotonin is very important for maintenance of body temperature and hyperthermia is a big risk of elevated serotonin levels.

    There's no crash as such because psilocin is effectively a stable substitute for the neurotransmitters. It doesn't cause the release and exhaustion of the endogenous neurotransmitters in the same way that drugs such as MDMA and cocaine might do. It's the exhaustion of supplies that generally creates the crash. However neurons do respond to prelonged overstimulation by temporarily downregulating the number of serotonin receptors they express, which effectively dampens their ability to respond to further stimulation. This is responsible for the tolerance effect, and also the often reported 'afterglow' effects. Unlike the after effects of some other drugs, this is often reported to feel positive.

    As for bad trips, that's something which is determined by the higher functions of the brain. The normal human mind can create thoughts and images which are both pleasant and unpleasant. When hyperactivity of these processes takes off with psychedelic use, these processes can become uncontrollable, relentless, and very emotionally intense. The results can vary from divine to hellacious, but the underlying chemical mechanism is not discernably different.
     
  17. SWIMclub

    SWIMclub Newbie

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    Thanks, Phenoxide, for sharing the info. SWIM still wonders, though... if it imitates serotonin so closely, why is the 'shroom high not hugely euphoric?
     
  18. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    The HTML pages about magic mushrooms no longer exist. They are replaced by the magic mushroom wiki. The information in this thread should be reviewed to see if it contains information that should be added to the wiki. Is anyone interest in doing this?
     
  19. The rolling tank

    The rolling tank Newbie

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    One thing I was wondering is if any yous out there have had any experience with Panaeolus Cinctulus? I recently found quite a few in his grandfathers lawn, but can't find any info on dosage...any help would be much appreciated, thanks!
     
  20. Phungushead

    Phungushead Twisted Depiction Staff Member Administrator

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    Panaeolus cinctulus is weak to moderate potency wise.

    Excerpt from Stamet's "Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World":

    [​IMG]

    Compare this to Psilocybe cubensis, which in one study was found to contain between 0.37–1.30% (psilocybin) and 0.14–0.42% (psilocin), (Tsujikawa et al 2003).

    Despite these massive variations in potency even among the same species, dosage for Panaeolus cinctulus ranges between one and two wet ounces (or ~28-57 wet grams), or between two and five grams dried, depending on what you are looking for as far as intensity of the experience. For a rough comparison, 4-5 dry grams of Panaeolus cinctulus is approximately equivalent to 3-4 dry grams of Psilocybe cubensis.

    And to quote Dr. Andrew Weil, “Marriage of the Sun and the Moon.” 1980:
    Also, please take care to ensure that the mushrooms in question truly are P. cinctulus and not a look-a-like, such as the inactive Panaeolina foenisecii, which looks nearly identical at a first glance, is extremely common (especially this time of the year), and grow in the same habitat.

    The easiest way to differentiate the two is by taking a spore print. Panaeolus cinctulus must have a jet black print (absent of any light)... if it's a very dark purplish brown, or just "very dark", it is a P. foenisecii or something else...

    Hope this is helpful to you.
    Stay safe,
    -PH
     

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