Possible Phenibut withdrawals...very scared

Discussion in 'Other drug addiction' started by drewcil, Jan 22, 2007.

  1. drewcil

    drewcil Silver Member

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    Well, I have posted in here once before about kratom. I got past that, it was very hard...but SWIM completely stopped. Phenibut was a big helper in that respect. Now, I have been taking about 7-9 grams of phenibut a day for almost 3 months. I am not at all psychologically addicted, but is very scared of what could come about from the physical withdrawals, tremors, epilepsy, seizures, that is very scary. SWIM just now has started reading of some of the possible withdrawal symptoms that can come from this working on the gaba-b receptor. These are a couple of things that SWIM picked out of an old thread I found on here. SWIM left the user names as to credit you's posts.

    Nicaine:
    I started out filling 00 gelatin capsules (~800 mg phenibut), and took them as a sleep aid off and on for ~2-3 months. There was also the occasional rec dose thrown in maybe twice a week (~2 grams or so). I had no problem stopping or skipping days until about month 4 of regular usage. At first dopamine rebound appears in the form of early awakening after a few hours sleep. Another sign is feeling totally refreshed when you shouldn't (like after only sleeping 3 hours). Also, I would have to take another dose (which takes about an hour to kick in to get back to sleep) At this point, I was taking ~2-3 grams a day (most of it at night) for sleep. Later SWIM progressed to a 2-3 gram dose for sleep plus rec dosing during the day (total ~5 grams daily). Tolerance steadily increased for the next 3-4 months and SWIM finally topped out at 8 grams a day. This was when dopamine rebound was readily noticeable. SWIM dosed every three hours to avoid intense anxiety, and shaking. SWIM also had to wake up twice a night to dose to fall back asleep. This stuff seems to exert it's effect for only 2-3 hours when taken long enough or in high enough doses to produce dependence.

    Then SWIM hit the wall and that is when the TSHTF. Doses that would normally hold swim for 3 hours and hold the dopamine rebound at bay did nothing at first, and then made the rebound worse. Symptoms are anxiety, shaking, twitching, and one time an intense dopamine rush (actually felt like ~100 mg adderall for about 30 mins but then quickly turned to intense anxiety, paranoia, and full blown panic attacks).

    This is the point where I took 20 mg of clonazepam to no effect. SWIM acquired some phenobarbital and immediately took 300 mg. Relief came in about an hour. I went from 500 mg to 100 mg of phenobarbital in roughly two weeks. The phenobarbital completely eliminated the w/d symptoms. Yes barbs suck and barbiturate addiction is probably the worst addiction there is, but they have their uses. It takes time to build tolerance to barbs as well. I had no problem stopping the pheno after two weeks.

    You mentioned not observing the stuff wearing off. I had the same experience in the beginning. A dose taken the previously evening was felt well into the next day. At the very end, I was lucky to have the effect last 3 hours, and then ultimately no effect followed by the opposite effect. For a "high", I used anywhere from 2-4 grams in the first few months. I would recommend starting on the low end at first though. SWIM rememebers SWIM's early rec doses as being pretty powerful. I couldn't walk straight, had zero social anxiety, talkativeness, etc. SWIM's first high dose made SWIM sick as hell though (~5 g). Swim vomited a few hours after the dose and felt like utter shit the following day. Same dose a day later and I felt great *shrug*.

    "Ion channels/seizures, eh... screw barbitures, sounds like Trileptal, Topamax, Depakote etc. would be better choices, as they're basically nonaddictive & have no pleasant qualities. Trileptal in lower doses is supposed to be fairly light on side effects."

    I know nothing of these drugs mechanisms of action so SWIM won't comment. Phenobarbital isn't pleasant to SWIM but it was a godsend for getting off phenibut. If You doesn't use phenibut every night to get to sleep and watches out for tolerance development, You should be fine.

    I use melatonin now, something I used to laugh at.

    ...........I have xanax at home, but is under the impression that it will not work since it works through the Gaba-a receptor. Should SWIM look into getting some phenobarbitral to kick this stuff. Will the supression of Gaba-b come back within a couple of weeks if the phenobarb is taken for that long. Will those types of side effects still be possible after only being on for a few months. I have searched and searched and cannot find the answer to these questions. I am pretty nervous, and would greatly appreciate it if some info could be handed down. SWIM appreciates it very much.
     
  2. azrael2600

    azrael2600 Silver Member

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    this is new, news to swim that phenibut addiction is possible.. I take phenibut anywhere from 3-12 grams a day depending on how I feel. sometimes I dont take it one day than another day I will take it. I have been using phenibut as a replacement for benzodiazapines (which I am precribed for swim GAD,, General anxiety disorder). also as like the first post on this thread I had also felt a dopamine,, amphetamine like rush sensation for like the first three weeks I started taking the phenibut. swim personally knows that a narcotic effect can happen at high doses of phenibut,, it alsmost reminds swim of a cross between a low dose of Valium with a tad of GHB.
    swim wishes You the best off luck though:)
     
  3. drewcil

    drewcil Silver Member

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    Actually, I've spoken with a couple doctors since. Both said that all the stuff that I read was waaaaay overplayed. I'm already down to 2 grams a day, and feeling fine as of now. I haven't had any anxiety yet, though I'm sure it will come eventually.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2009
  4. mbu37

    mbu37 Newbie

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    Swim who was taking xanax, up to 3mg a day, but not everyday. I tried Phenibut beginning at the 2 gram dose - I got a good night's sleep. Upped it to 4 or more, frankly I don't remember - it was in Jan. of 2006. I found it VERY unpredictable - passed out a few times which alarmed Swim's girlfriend but swim woke up with no problem. Since it was just for such a short duration, no problems with just stopping it.
    One interesting effect, at the 2 g dose in the evenings, I would have a nice sleep and wake up in the morning with, for lack of a better phrase, a feeling of mission - like really motivated to go to work a crank it out.

    As for the passing out without warning at higher doeses - reminded swim of GHB - when it was still legal of course.

    mbu37
     
  5. DavidAimes

    DavidAimes Newbie

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    I am also very scared, is taking between 6-12 grams a day and tolerance is very much being noticed as well as some side effects. I started out using the same infrequent doses as stated above. HAs been taking it now for almost 5 months. I want to get off this substance but is scared of the withdrawals. SWIM notices that after 5-6 hours has to re dose otherwise horrible buzzing in the head and body occur, as well as anxiety. I started taking this to prevent anxiety and lower the drive to want to drink alcohol, and it works well but now has presented new problems. Also noticed is a large amount of weight gain, mostly all in the stomach like a been belly. Phenibut has had amazing effects aside from the negative stated. If I want to ween himself off this what legal over the counter supplements can help?

    DavidAimes added 1 Minutes and 20 Seconds later...

    ** Beer, not been belly
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2009
  6. drewcil

    drewcil Silver Member

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    I took it really as a a replacement for something else. Not good, but that's how I was thinking at the time. In SWIM's first post, you can see some products that could be helpful with phenibut withdrawal. I will say that it was not as bad as he thought it would be. I used nothing at all, and came down about 1 gram every 3 days. I don't know if You is using 50 or 100mg capsules? If taking 50, I would drop 50mg's every other day. Of course, everybody is different. I do not want to scare You at all, but everyone body works differently. SWIM personally thinks You will be fine, but will just have to be very disciplined.

    I didn't notice any weight gain, did You stop going to the gym/exercising, etc, when using the phenibut? If You has any questions, don't hesitiate to contact SWIM throught private message. I am a very understanding person, and is always willing to do whatever he can to help anyone.
     
  7. DavidAimes

    DavidAimes Newbie

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    SWIM sure hopes it's not as bad as he thinks it will be, and you's encouragement is appreciated! I am at -12 hours with no phenibut. The buzzing is noticeable but not overwhelming. His head feels numb, like physically! He has tried to withdrawal by tapering down but didn't have the discipline, if the withdrawal symptoms become too bad he will take a very small dose. He uses powder not caps. Thank you again! I will post updates for SWIM.

    DavidAimes added 1387 Minutes and 27 Seconds later...

    I am at -36 hours and is awake after sleeping for maybe 2 straight hours through the night. At -30 he felt it necessary to take a very small dose, approx 300mg 1/16th of a normal dose. At that time he was experiencing extreme anxiety and could not sleep after taking melatonin and tylenol PM. His head was itching and felt puffy, face felt puffy and hands were swollen. SWIM can compare this withdrawal almost exactly to how he felt when going cold turkey from alcohol after drinking 3/4 liters of hard liquor every day for a year. He says it almost feels exactly the same. Another strange thing during the night he felt extreme nausea and ended up throwing up, pure yellow stomach acid. This happened 3 times over 4 hours. SWIM wonders if his stomach had been working overtime when taking so much phenibut. Currently at -36 hours with one small dose 7 hours ago I feel exhausted, achey. His plan is to try not to take any more small doses but at night will if is totally overwhelmed. Luckily, I am not working right now so can devote his time to manageing this while not sleeping.

    DavidAimes added 6 Minutes and 4 Seconds later...

    Also, I will have some clonazapam and will take some at night if sleep is impossible the next few nights.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2009
  8. missparkles

    missparkles If you like crazy you've come to the right place. Platinum Member & Advisor Donating Member

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    Sparkles was interested in this topic as Phenibut Withdrawals seems very similar in lots of ways to mild benzo WD. The insomnia, shaking and anxiety.
    I looked at a of sites, and it was discussed there. Apparently reducing the size of the dose, and taking it less frequently can reduce these uncomfortable side effects of WD.

    Someone also said that Withdrawals only last for 7-10 day maximum. Another remedy that seemed to help, was bromocriptine. So please, before even considering trying bromocriptine research the effect thoroughly. To be honest, Sparkles knows absolutely nothing about either drugs, although she is aware that Phenibut is used in weight training and by body builders.

    Word of warning
    ...never use any barbiturates unless you're under strict medical supervision. Doctors stopped prescribing these drugs in them in the 70s, and switched over to benzodiazepines as they were considered much safer than barbiturates back then. The problem with barbs, is it doesn't take long to become dependent on them, even used at a therapeutic dose, once a night as a sleeper. People who have stopped them abruptly have been know to suffer seizures, the same as the seizures they'd suffer if they too too large a dose in one go.
    In the 70s lots of people ODd on barbs, so mixing these with other substances, would be insane.
    Stay safe.
    Sparkles.:vibes:
     
    1. 3/5,
      Very wise advice. Respect these powerful chemicals and they will respect you.
      Feb 9, 2011
  9. Guigz

    Guigz Titanium Member

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    The pharmacokinetic of phenibut is very similar to GHB.
    By analogical reasoning Gabapentin can be useful for phenibut WD.

    I took phenibut for almost 6 month, 5/10gr per days, and stoped by reducing slowly the dosage. And using Zopiclone to induce sleeping

    First week:10gr to 9gr.
    Second week: 9gr to 8gr
    Third:8gr to 6gr
    Fourth:6gr to 4gr
    Fifth:4gr to 1gr.
    A couple of week with 1 gr.
    From the fifth week 7.5mg of zopiclone to induce sleeping.

    After 7 week stoped phenibut and zopiclone without WD.(Maybe 2 or 3ays of insomnia)
     
    1. 4/5,
      Clear, concise, with excellent info for the OP.
      Oct 31, 2009
  10. Ryan80

    Ryan80 Silver Member

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    Apparently, the recommended dosage of Phenibut in Russia is small amounts, over short periods, for things like GAD

    Over here - being "legal" - it comes in eiher bulk powder or 750mg capsules.

    I became addicted to this stuff. Phenibut is very very cruel in the way it builds tolerance. A 2mg sleep dose can very easily turn into a 6mg daytime dose. And because it can take up to 2 hours to hit an "extra" meantime dose just makes it work.

    I have literally being walking around, then realised he can't remember the journey. His brain literally switching off.

    I first heard of Phenibut while researching GBL withdrawal, since the mechanism is similar. In my opinion, Phenibut is far worse.

    If you are addiceted, withdraw gradually - though it's hard because of the long onset. If you can, get Baclofen (GABA B). If you can't get anything else, try Pregabalin or Diazepam. Anything long lasting enough to get through the worst Phenibut withdrawals.

    SWIM completely lost his mind on Phenibut withdrawals cold turkey. Thought his body was "unwinding" and thought reality was fake. Thought the doctors were out to kill him.

    Swim just wants you to know that Phenibut is once substance you should be uber careful with. Please use once a week at most. Better still, stay away.

    BTW doctors don't know what this stuff if. They diagonised swim with GBL withdrawal ~(prob because previous medical records showed that). I know Doctors use Erowid and other search engines to research the street opinions on drugs they don't know about, so hopefully some Doctors here might gain some valuable info.
     
  11. labrada800

    labrada800 Newbie

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    I used a supplement which contains phenibut citrate and gaba both and i used it for about 2.5 or 3weeks continuously only one serving as recommended by the company.I didn't have any knowledge about phenibut when i used it so when stopped taking that supp i noticed some withdrawal effects after maybe 24 hrs of withdrawal and it was just a nightmare for about 6 days I went to doctor on 5th day and he recommended me diazepam 10mg and lafutidine 10mg i never took diazepam as i have read about its withdrawal on other blogs but i took a single dose of lafutidine.It helped in curing some of the nausea but help as at minimun .I never slept for 6 days I was in intense depression and was feeling extremely nauseous when comes to eating food and ended up in severe loss of appetite finally on 7th day i was able to sleep good and all the symptoms was gone i started sleeping at regular bed times was very happy to get rid of the symptoms after the 7th day the symptoms was gone for maybe 4-5days and then on the night of 11th day the symptoms begin to return as i wake up at 3:30 am and again slowly slowly started feeling depressed,guilty and same extremely nauseous.I was not able to sleep after that and around 11:00am i was feeling intense depression ate nothing as i am was nauseous on swallowing my food all the symptoms returned again except heart palpation and shivering(the feeling of cold and shivering was very slight uncompilable to early withdrawal symptoms) I thought its just my mind thinking of withdrawal symptoms again as in majority of blogs there are 7 days of withdrawal symptoms written but i was not able to sleep that night next day i was feeling extremely tired and nauseous on just thinking about food so i took a dose of lafutidine and it worked i ate my food on 12 noon and was asleep at 2:00 pm and i wake up at 10:00pm at night with some mild depression and a bit of nausea then again i ate my food and went to sleep at around 12:30 am(not very quality sleep woke up 3-4 times during that sleep)finally i got up at around 7in the morning again with same symptoms and the symptoms peaked at around 12noon so i decided to take another dose of lafutidine and it worked again this time dimnishing nearly all the withdrawal symptoms within 2 hours.I was feeling extremely sleepy but i stayed awake because i thought that symptoms are over now and i should follow my bed time hours.I ate 3 meals along with salad and fruits that day(yesterday) and went for sleep at 11 pm i woke up at 3:30 am for pee and i woke up with mild symptoms and was not able to get back to sleep despite felling very sleepy the depression built up again but not to that level i desperately tried to sleep and slept in a semi drowsed manner for another 3 hours it's now 8:30 in the morning and i am feeling very sleepy and mildly depressed with feeling of defeat and weakness please somebody help why are these symptoms coming back and when will they diminish completely please reply
     
    1. 3/5,
      No need to cross-post the same thing in 5 different threads.
      Jun 7, 2011
  12. drewcil

    drewcil Silver Member

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    I am sorry to hear of the withdrawals that You is going through. What was the name of the product as well as the company? I am interested to see what the dose of phenibut is in this product?
     
  13. labrada800

    labrada800 Newbie

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    Today is my 22nd day of withdrawal still not feeling well still feeling depressed,no motivation for exercise,a bit nauseous,no happiness at all even on those thing which i usually enjoyed a lot,no quality of sleep only about 3-5 hours of sleep after that struggling for sleep,no libido.However the symptoms are not that much higher but are still there and are very nasty.just wanna get rid of it
    Also the symptoms are fluctuating 6 days back the symptoms were completely diminished only some sleep problems remained so i took only one .25mg alprazolam that day as my doctor recommended it helped a little in sleep but i didn't took it again then my condition remained stable for the next 3 days(no symptoms at all) but it started again the day before yesterday and still present.so did swim experienced same type of symptoms.I have found another guy on other forum saying that his phenibut withdrawal symptoms also relapsed after a month of withdrawing cold turkey.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2011
  14. labrada800

    labrada800 Newbie

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    the symptoms are not going aways they are contineously relapsing specially at night though the symptoms are not very strong but then also it feels like shit and at night i had to somehow control myself.i had no sleep for 5 weeks or so only the semi drowsed sleep all night and just started feeling mad please somebody help......
     
  15. DavidAimes

    DavidAimes Newbie

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    SWIM suggests that Labredo800 see a doctor if these symptoms aren't going away. Explain everything. I have said that being honest with professionals is best when things aren't feeling right. SWIM also wonders if the symptoms felt after such a long time after withdrawal from phenibut aren't or weren't symptoms that You were feeling in the first place. I say talk to someone.
     
  16. labrada800

    labrada800 Newbie

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    I am counseling regularly with my doctor but he always advice me to not take any medicine.he says that it will go on it's own and now he hardly listens to me by the way my symptoms are lot more lighter it only relapses during night around 11:00pm to about 1:00 at night and i found sleeping difficult if i am awake in the middle of the night then i never fall asleep back.during day time everything is fine.only sleep troubles night time symptoms and some memory problems(I think due to lack of sleep).
    one another thing the supplement which i was using had not only phenibut but blend of sedative compound including gaba and l-dopa.I think that's the reason why it took so long
     
  17. DavidAimes

    DavidAimes Newbie

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    I am glad you're feeling better, and glad you saw your doctor and was honest with them. It's important that if you don't feel right or feel different than you normally do to talk to someone. Honestly, the best medicine is exercise, good diet and sleep. The problem is I don't follow his own advice! Sleep problems happen, SWIM barely ever sleeps "great". Take vitamins, a multi helps sometimes if you aren't eating a lot of veggies and fresh foods. Also try ONE Melatonin(more isn't better). A lot of it is figuring out what works for you, before or after an addiction to anything whether it be a physical or mental addiction, to get back to what feels normal or good. Good luck, Peace.

    SWIM
     
  18. xiaobendan

    xiaobendan Silver Member

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    Afoaf went into the phenibiut game with open eyes, he knew all the negatives and positives.

    His first tour of duty consisted of an eight day straight binge, using doses of 3-5grams only once a day(but this stuff lasts 24hours with an anti-anxiety afterglow.)

    After eights days he stopped with no real problems, but noticed a slight throbing in the front of the skull and a slight feeling of depression for a couple of days but nothing as bad as real withdrawels.

    A month later he got a lot more of it. He would dose 3days in a row, stop a day or two, then again. Say in one month he did it 21days, with doses then up to 7grams.

    Well after a few weeks he would notice that the next day would be great but the day after would get shitty then if he didn't dose the next day he would get a horrible headache and generally a shitty feeling in the body. So he would have to dose after a two day gap.

    Anyway after a month he wasn't even buzzing after 8-9grams so he said fuck it, time to stop. After three days stopping he couldn't sleep at all, there was an awful decompression feeling in his skull that felt like his brain was swelling. His skin felt dirty, he became very irratable and suddenly he had a very low threshold for heat and discomfort. He was constantly sweating and cringing with discomfort, pins and needles feeling all over his body.

    His skin felt so ichy and dirty that he began to wash his face so much his skin dried out and began to crack. He felt like he was 15 again with terrible acne but he had no spots but he had that same feeling under his skin. The t-zone on his face felt the worst, like there were worms under the skin! arghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!...

    After 5 days he was cracking up, no sleep, contant depression and disgust about toilets, rubbish heat etc. He refushed to drink alcohol to get over it because he was a afraid of what a hangover would be like in that state.

    Anyway after 8 days he was fine, but it spooked him. What would happend to the poor bastards who dosed 10 or more grams a day for 6months? That would be hell.

    If he goes near phenibut again he will treat it like a real recreational substance not a daily supplement for body building or hanging out. It needs to be treated with respect.
     
  19. labrada800

    labrada800 Newbie

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    Thank you very much for your support sir.I am getting better as time passes.I hope i'll be full on my own very soon,sir i have tried melatonin 3mg for 1-2 nights way back last year but it didn't help me in anything so do you have any other suggestions.
     
  20. xiaobendan

    xiaobendan Silver Member

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    Try kava man, when afoaf had those bad withdrawals kava was a great way to take the edge off. When he's straight melatonin is fine but coming off phenibut, kava really helped his sleeping pattern


    It works on a similar part of the brain but it isn't addictive.