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Pregabalin (Lyrica) for Opiate Withdrawal and/or PAWS

Discussion in 'Opiate addiction' started by OhCasey, Apr 7, 2009.

  1. OhCasey

    OhCasey Palladium Member

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    I've been meaning to post my experience with Pregabalin and opiate withdrawal for some time but I've been trying to build more experience before posting.

    Heres some basic info on the drug and the pharmacology you can skip this paragraph if youre familiar with the drug. Lyrica is a drug used for nerve pain, fibromyalgia and its also being prescribed for general anxiety. Its very similar to gabapentin (Neurontin) but its considered stronger and less is needed to get the same effects. Its a schedule 5 drug here in the US. Lyrica (pregabalin) binds with high affinity to the alpha2-delta site (an auxiliary subunit of voltage-gated calcium channels) in central nervous system tissues. Although the mechanism of action of pregabalin is unknown, results with genetically modified mice and with compounds structurally related to pregabalin (such as gabapentin) suggest that binding to the alpha2-delta subunit may be involved in pregabalin's antinociceptive and antiseizure effects in animal models. In vitro, pregabalin reduces the calcium-dependent release of several neurotransmitters, possibly by modulation of calcium channel function. While pregabalin is a structural derivative of the inhibitory neurotransmitter gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), it does not bind directly to GABA A, GABA B, or benzodiazepine receptors, does not augment GABA A responses in cultured neurons, does not alter rat brain GABA concentration or have acute effects on GABA uptake or degradation. However, in cultured neurons prolonged application of pregabalin increases the density of GABA transporter protein and increases the rate of functional GABA transport. Pregabalin does not block sodium channels, is not active at opiate receptors, and does not alter cyclooxygenase enzyme activity. It is inactive at serotonin and dopamine receptors and does not inhibit dopamine, serotonin, or noradrenaline reuptake.

    I have been prescribed Lyrica for years but he doesnt take it because of the lack of pain relief and the side effects which for him was slight blurred vision and weight gain. Swim continued to fill his script and not use the medication just to make his opiate prescribing Doc happy. Swim discovered that many people noticed that opiate withdrawal can be somewhat alleviated with Lyrica so he decided to try it. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that it helped every aspect of opaite withdrawal. Since he had a lot of mg's he could burn through he started with twice daily doses of 1000 mg's, the highest recommended dose is 600 mg's split into 300 mg's twice daily. Ive read reports of people taking 2000 mg's at once but I would suggest staying around the 1200 mg range at the most. After a week swim stepped down to 500 mg's twice daily and then 3 days later went to 200 mg's twice daily. A week later he went down to 50 mg's and then 25 mg's for a couple days before stopping all usage. The only withdrawal symptom that returned was diarrhea which the lyrica had relieved during opiate withdrawal quite well, lopermide was used to take care of the problem after lyrica usage. Lyrica has been known to cause withdrawals itself but only after prolonged use at extreme doses. Symptoms of lyrics withdrawal usually include restlessness, insomnia and rebound anxiety. Lyrica is easily tapered and tapering almost always negates any withdrawals.
    If you have addiction issues to multiple substances not just opiates then lyrica might become a replacement drug though swim cant see why one would go that route since any euphoric effects are slight and tolerance to those effects builds very very rapidly. Overall lyrica is compareable to a mixture of clonidine and a very very light benzo, atleast for swim. It helps a lot with the restless legs, diarrhea, chills, cold sweats and changes in body temp. It gave noticeable but smaller improvements in the insomnia and anxiety department. I think it could also be very valuable as a long term treatment for 3 or so months to avoid severe PAWS. Its usually very attainable from a doctor since most docs think its potential for abuse is nonexistant. A lot of people use it to taper off of Benzo's with mixed results.

    This is only swims personal experience and everyones different but I imagine more people than not would get similar results.
     
  2. yulamada

    yulamada Silver Member

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    If only my badger had known about this possibility when he was detoxing at his folks den. His dad has several bottles of it that go unused by said parent, and the badger would have been more than happy to provide another experience to this thread.

    Surely another You must have input on this...anyone?
     
  3. thebige

    thebige Newbie

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    I have found the same use for gabapentin/Neurontin......It is not a cure all but swim throws in large amounts of lopermide and reasonable amounts of dxm into the mix,so he can't say for sure..........
    There is something about the gaba/pre gaba that works.....swims not a chemist so he can only say from personal experince.............
     
  4. OhCasey

    OhCasey Palladium Member

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    My pet ghost used gabapentin for opiate withdrawal also and it helped but didnt have the same effect as lyrica. It also needs to be taken in a lot larger doses.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2010
  5. Mikeymc

    Mikeymc Silver Member

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    my pet ghost said:

    I am currently using Neurontin, did people find this was helpful with intial withdrawl, and paws? I know both Lyrica and neurontin are similar. I have been off hydroc for a day and a half now.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2010
  6. OhCasey

    OhCasey Palladium Member

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    Neurontin is helpful during withdrawals it just has to be taken in higher doses and its not as powerful as pregabalin. If nothing else it helps with sleeping during withdrawals.
     
  7. paolo777

    paolo777 Newbie

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    ok...check it out...I kicked in Italy a few years ago where they gave me subs and lyrica...no one knows how lyrica works...forget the pharmacology...only dope can help a dope kick (or a chemical relayed to dope)...lyrica hits opiate receptors, how? no one knows...Pfizer swears it doesn't, but it does...it also hits THC, MDMA, and GABA receptors...how? no one knows...and, yes, Pfizer swears it doesn't....I telling you as an ex-dope fiend and raver that this drug, in higher than recommended dosage (i.e. 750 mg and up) will make you roll, trip, and eat...it's a really, really weird drug...nothing like it. It was synthesized at the Univ. of Chicago because Pfizer's patent on neurontin was expiring...Lyrica is neurontin's big, bad brother...But, it cuts a kick by 80% (without subs)...it works, but it's really, really trippy.
     
  8. needtostop

    needtostop Newbie

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    i'll have to agree with some of this info here. i Lyrica's exact MOA is not known but it is thought to act at the a2d subunit of the calcium channels. It decreases excitatory neurotransmitor release. when i was withdrawing from opiates i didn't sleep for 3 days. on the third day i decided to take 600mg of lyrica. 2 hrs later i was feeling a hundred times better and i slept solid for 10 hrs. it was literally a friggin miiracle. the drug is best used at MOST every other day...to every three days. It will cause insomnia for several nights after you dose. if you go to sleep within 10 hrs of taking the dose, you will sleep. just not after you wake up for a few days.
     
  9. JaWill88

    JaWill88 Newbie

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    swim knows he is bringing up an old thread, but feels he must. I has found that he has the miracle mix of drugs. for him, high dose pregabalin (Lyrica), 1200mg, and clonazepam (Klonopin, Rivotril?) 10-12mg. for swim neither of these doses really do anything on their own. but together they are like magic. they seem to lift any depression and anxiety one may have. I am in light withdrawal right now, took his 1200mg lyrica and already feels much better an hour and a half later. for him lyrica seems to take a while to work (and that is even when emptying the capsules and putting the powder in his mouth and swallowing with water). but like he said he already feels way better. but when I am not in withdrawal, and takes those two together they are like magic. they give him 100% relief of any anxiety or depression. I am one of the few who doesn't really have any depression problems, but has severe anxiety, and if not treated can turn into depression. but anyways depression or not, pregabalin gives a big mood lift and helps with anxiety. but with the clonazepam there is still the big mood lift but anxiety is obliterated, completely gone. swim just thought he should share that.

    by the way, those are no doses to start at. I had a huge tolerance to benzodiazepines. he once ate 60mg of clonazepam at one dose, and 100mg total through the day. and it was a normal day for him, he remembers everything. but most people get knocked on their ass at 2mg or more. and same with more than 300mg of pregabalin. so start easy if wanting to try this combination. he imagines it would be incredibly helpful in WD
     
  10. OhCasey

    OhCasey Palladium Member

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    Thats very interesting I wonder if any other swimmers have tried Clonazepam and Pregabalin together. Pregabalin does provide a mood lift especially at first. Lyrica (Pregabalin) does seem to take longer to work than say a simple benzo and it seems that it needs to be taken 3 times a day evenly spaced to keep a constant dose in you. Lyrica definitely works better when taken on an empty stomach. Swim trys to wait 4-5 hours after eating to take lyrica.
     
  11. rokman nash

    rokman nash Palladium Member

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    https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127929

    The above thread talks a little about my friend Daves experience using Lyrica and Suboxone for a quick detox. This has not only worked for him, but has helped several friends as well. Daves not sure how or why it helps, he just knows it has helped him and others.

    Good Thoughts:thumbsup:
     
  12. sbt8080

    sbt8080 Titanium Member

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    Wow, I wish I had found this thread earlier in SWIM's life, for his sake.

    Literally nothing works for SWIM during opiate withdrawal, and he has tried everything, from the chemical (DXM, benzodiazepines, alcohol, etc. [but no opioids like buprenorphine, I do not have access to these]), to the physical (exercising wildly, sometimes even running in the rain/snow when desperate), to the psychological (reading, playing video games, focusing on other things, meditation). The damn restless leg, anxiety, and sweats always persists.

    I had absolutely no idea about pregabalin, or even gabapentin for that matter (I even had a huge bottle of gabapentin in his medicine cabinet throughout his last withdrawal period).

    Unfortunately, SWIM may need to heed this advice. He would love to say that he won't need to withdraw from opiates anymore, but he is sure that he will. He will definitely pass on his experiences with this when he has them.
     
  13. Canadian4Life

    Canadian4Life Newbie

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    I used gabapentin for opiate withdrawal once..it helped somewhat but not significantly enough. He never tried lyrica but if its anything like gabapentin tolerance builds Extremely fast. The only thing I find helpful in opiate withdrawal is clonazepam. Sure benzos are addictive but they help alot with most of the opiate withdrawal symptoms like anxiety,insomnia, restlessness and even help with depression for SWIM. I takes 1-2mg of clonazepam a day and yes he has become tolerant but the anti-anxiety effects are still working for him after 3 years at the same dose. When he withdraws from opiates he ups his clonazepam dose to 3mg and some days 4mg depending how he feels. He was given mirtazapine from his doctor last month when he was in severe withdrawal and that was one other drug that seemed to help too. It made him eat, helped him sleep and boosted his mood and actually reduced his cravings alot. But mirtazapine had some side effects I couldn't tolerate so he only used it during withdrawal but did it ever help. I have seen studies showing mirtazapine has opiate properties and binds to some of the opiate sites. SWIM suffers from ADHD and social anxiety and the mirtazapine did not help his anxiety at all which was why he stopped it but for others mirtazapine is a great helper.
     
  14. Neznam

    Neznam Silver Member

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    Swim used gabapentin also for opiate withdrawal and continued for sometime during PAWS. Swim noticed You said to get the same effects you'd have to use pretty large doses of gabapentin and in fact I was indeed given to take 3000mg per day (average, as prescribed, would take sometimes larger). But anyway from his experience they helped during the withdrawals mildly, it wasnt like some miracle cure, but made the withdrawals more bearable.

    It somewhat helped with sleep(apparently it helps with insomnia) although swim cannot confirm this accurately as he was taking large doses of Diazepam in combination for sleep. The one thing he did like about gabapentin was that it did help PAWS pretty well, aside from the depression I has had that for a while. After a while the effects of gabapentin stopped helping swim and he discontinued taking them after almost 4-5months of use. He gradually cut down his doses and took 300mg (1 pill) a day for quite some time before completely stopping. There are reports stating that gabapentin is addicting and I didnt want to risk stopping suddenly (neither should anyone).

    Oddly swims doctor told him that gabapentin would help his cravings for the drug... and to set this straight if some other foolish doctor tells a swiy... IT DID NOT at ALL. His psychiatrist gave swim the strangest look when swim told him this.
     
  15. Mike965

    Mike965 Silver Member

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    I have used Gabapentin for Opiate withdrawals which are like a less potent form of Pregabalin (Sp?) and at high doses 1800 - 2600 mg's has had great benefits with lessening withdrawal symptoms. Swim says it seems to work for about the first three days as you up the dose to compensate for tolerance that builds quickly. Swim says it reduces withdrawal symptoms to a feeling that seems really far away.
     
  16. spicybrainsgirl

    spicybrainsgirl Newbie

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    My cat used gabapentin this week to take the edge off his cravings. a 2000 mg dose did wonders as far as adding interest to the day, he can't say if it would help in Withdrawals because my cat was over the acute WD's. But as I said, my cat says it was interesting for sure, and would recommend it, but not for long term use unless you need for nerve pain or something...
     
  17. &rew

    &rew

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    SWIM haven't used lyrica for two years. And yesterday he had to use it. He ate 1x150 mg first, wait for an hour and then he ate second 150 mg... 3 hours after it was total overdose. Walking counting angles, haze in head, feeling like he'll blow up if not talk to someone right now. And this overdose happen while I was at work... he caught random man and start telling him something, telling long story until that random man stop him: "man, i hear your words, but i can't understand you". I started hear his voice when talking. Today I ate 1x150 mg at morning and only around 16:30 I started feeling ok.

    For first use 150 mg and wait at least 4-5 hours if WDs still not at acceptable level eat another 150 mg and and so on each 4-5 hours with max dose 600 mg per day. And don't expect to get high. There is no high with lyrica, only side effects, annoying effects. Some ppl even prefer not to use lyrica and stay with WDs cos of this side effects.
     
  18. WeAre138

    WeAre138 Newbie

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    It's great to start small, and pregabalin takes a long time to kick in. For me, I'll take it maybe twice a month. 750 mg at first which takes almost 2 hours to feel. Then I'll keep popping more 1 75mg at a time. That's just me. After two hours I mostly stumble around like a drunken sailor, with mega munches, and then eventually fall asleep. One thing I've found, Lyrica is supposed to work as an anticonvulsant, but when I take it, I get extreme myoclonus. I never attended any science classes, even though my B.S. is in psychology, so I can't explain this. I would google it, but I'm off for a Taco Bell run.

    WeAre138 added 1 Minutes and 33 Seconds later...

    Geez, my whole point for posting was that its works great for opiate withdrawals.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2013
  19. flgrl

    flgrl Newbie

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    Well my parrot was detoxing a year of at least 40mgs of dilaudid or at least 300 mgs of oxycodone...a search on here quickly clued me in to Lyrica...my experience was pretty good with it at lower doses for the first day or two then the sicker he got, the more he ate...by the time the week was up this bird had consumed over 2000mg and was now w/d from the Lyrica! Really bad second week, went back to using doc a little here and there just to overshadow creepy withdrawals, anxiety, restless legs, etc., and sweats! They were terrible. He pretty much stayed in his cage for a week or more. He says if he does this again, he's only taking minimal doses and for just a few days when he really needs it. Summary: it helps amazingly with w/d, BUT it build a tolerance fast and one will w/d from the Lyrica with just a few days use.
     
  20. HyperalgesiaGirl

    HyperalgesiaGirl Silver Member

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    I have been on Gabapentin for a few months now. For PAWS and withdrawal aches. It did help the aches somewhat. I am on only 600 per day now. I want off the stuff, but will taper super slowly. I cannot deal with any rebound crap. The withdrawal from opiates was bad enough. I still take Clonidine and am afraid to get off it now! I am off opiates for about 112 days or so. God help me if some of the withdrawal crap comes back! Clonidine was THE BEST for RLS, anxiety, insomnia, etc. I was cool as a cucumber after taking it. My main complaint was deep bone aches for a long time. It really stunk.