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Effects - Preventing Vasoconstriction

Discussion in 'LSA seeds' started by Ghetto_Chem, Jan 18, 2011.

  1. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

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    Well my friend has just now starting to get a little interested in a little thing called LSA. He noticed during one of his experiments many years ago that he had noticably irritating vasoconstriction. That caused him to have severe leg cramping for a few minutes. He didnt like that too much as it was really bad.

    After looking about it seems that every place can describe exactly what it is and what drugs cause this. But cant find anywhere how to prevent it.

    Question now, does anyone know what substances, foods, or techniques be used to prevent vasoconstriction while using LSA. Right now it seems to be its only flaw. So clearing up that would make my friend a happy camper.

    After getting many responses he decided to start to list them for others to have easy access to:

    - Kratom
    - Cayenne Pepper (800mg crushed and capsulized)
    - Kola Nut
    - Niacin
    - Yohimbe
    - Cannabis
    - Hot Showers
    - Benzodiazapines
    - Dark Chocolate
    - Garlic Cloves
    - Peppermint Cold Water Infusion
    - Ginseng
    - Caffeine (?)
    - Ibuprofen

    If anyone would like for him to add or edit in more please let him know.

    -GC
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  2. Potter

    Potter Platinum Member & Advisor

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    I think caffeine is a good admixture, not only is it a vaso-dilator, but it counters the sedative effects of the LSA.

    Hot showers are also good.
     
  3. godztear

    godztear Silver Member

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    Cannabinoids are great vasodilators which would most definitely ease the symptoms along with enhance the experience over all.
     
  4. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

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    Thanx so much to both of ya,

    Great examples, and its nice to know they are called vaso-dilators lol. And both a easy to get for just about everyone else reading this. Which would be considered "best"?

    Now that its mentioned swims friend didnt smoke as much as he usually does the night of the vasoconstriction.

    Does anyone have any stories of really bad vasoconstriction during an LSA trip that caused any concern?

    Peace
     
  5. organic_chemist

    organic_chemist Titanium Member

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    Benzodiazepines would probably be the best way to go, and possibly safer than other drugs which can induce vasodilation (eg. calcium channel blockers, beta blockers). Swim's FOAF has used diazepam to overcome sympathomimetic symptoms with LSA, LSD, and Psilocybin with no problems. Dosage would be around 1.5-2mg initially, and topping up with 0.5-1mg every 2/3 hours or so for duration of LSA experience.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2011
  6. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

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    Very interesting,

    Benzos are something that could mix well with a trip for swim. But can the same effects be achieved at levels lower than needed to experience effects. Swim has access to lorazepam will this work the same?

    Swim thinks that benzos could be good but wouldnt want to take a full dose as something like LSA is sedating as is. Swim would have to speedball it with caffeine lol.

    This is good info tho guys anymore drugs that anyone knows of?

    Peace
     
  7. torachi

    torachi Palladium Member

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    Benzo's would unfortunately probably terminate the trip, or at least dull it.

    Dark chocolate is known as a vasodilator.
     
  8. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

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    Ya thats what swim was thinking, so dark chocolate?

    What would be a good amount of dark chocolate. At the moment it seems the most feasible in terms of availability and not messing with the trip. Cannabis being second, caffeine third. Caffeine is easier to obtain then cannabis but would probably make the side effects of the trip worse the buds. Caffeine is still a good option too.

    Basically whatever a persons into.

    Peace
     
  9. torachi

    torachi Palladium Member

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    The mugwump cannot comment from personal experience, but found this study (can't find a non-.gov source, so it is not linked yet) that uses 40 grams of 70% cocoa dark chocolate.

     
  10. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

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    Swims robot txted him this:

    Thats a great study found there, seems that it does work according to scientists at least. Next time swim doses LSA hes going to consume dark chocolate and will relate how he gets affected. Isnt chocolate an MAOI as well or is swim remembering wrong?

    Peace
     
  11. torachi

    torachi Palladium Member

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    According to 'ask erowid'...

    The response, as far as chocolate having MAOI activity, would probably be the same for LSA as well as MDMA.
     
  12. Potter

    Potter Platinum Member & Advisor

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    I will have been working on the cacao wiki and have more detailed information on the MAO-I chemistry of cacao. I have a feeling they inhibit the destruction of ananadamide, so they may not be a concern for tryptamines or phenyethylamines. I've seen people consume LSA with, how shall we say "heroic" amounts of raw cacao with little ill effect.
    on.

    Page me next week to remind me to get back to this.
     
  13. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

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    Now that torachi posts that swim has remembered seeing it now,

    Speaking of chocolate real quick something interesting, swims been getting these chocolate edibles that are made with some bomb blueberry buds. They are cheap and easy to get.

    For some reason swim got super addicted to them for a short period of time, like he literally had no self control with them. He usually doesnt like chocolate that much but he thinks that the chocolate and bud combo gives an effect that has somewhat addictive properties. Well swim eventually just said fuck it and had a little bit of withdraw for like 2 days. He got really bad acne for those 2-3 days and was irritable. Cocoa withdrawal?

    Lil off topic sorry people just thought potter might like to know about a quick story of cocoa addiction that happened by accident.

    Swim is going to try LSA in a week or so and will post his trials with dark chocolate and LSA.

    Peace
     
  14. Everest

    Everest

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    Swim is wondering what if someone has high blood pressure doesn't LSA increase it and then caffeine would increase it even more ...
     
  15. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

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    To be honest,

    Swim was kinda wondering something similar, and then he checked and according to wikipedia (take as you'd like) caffeine is a vasoconstrictor like other stimulants are.

    So swim would say that cannabis and black chocolate are best.

    Peace
     
  16. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

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    According to 69Ron in another thread on LSA,

    Niacin is great for blocking vasoconstriction. Also a small amount of yohimbe (about ½ a tsp of bark) works well for blocking the vasoconstriction, and also makes the trip more like LSD. Niacin is safer to mix with it though. Too much yohimbe is not good.

    Just more info to help this thread grow,

    Peace
     
  17. 69Ron

    69Ron Titanium Member

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    Another pretty safe vasodilator is cayenne pepper at about 800 mg taken in a capsule (not diluted). This causes vasodilation, and also a release of adrenalin, so it makes the trip more speedy, more LSD-like. The effect is short lived though.

    Cayenne also goes well with the psychedelic oils elemicin, methyl chavicol, and nutmeg oil.

    While on the subject, it should be noted that elemicin, methyl chavicol, and nutmeg oil potentiate the effects of LSA/LSH, so be careful mixing them. Even small "inactive" doses will potentate the effects of LSA/LSH. I've seen people take elemicin, get no effects, and then take HBWR and trip SUPER HARD.

    Kola nut is also a vasodilator. It goes better with LSA/LSH than coffee does. SWIM found it to increase the euphoria.

    SWIM found caffeine to be very poor at counteracting the nasty sedative effects of LSA. Yohimbe is great for that, and so is cayenne pepper. Another one to fight the sedative effects is methyl chavicol (taken with 5 grams German chamomile of course, otherwise it too will cause sedation).



    Check out this recipe called Wasted Space (this recipe is from another guy on another forum)

    1 tsp peppermint leaf
    1/4 cup German chamomile flowers
    A few HBWR seeds (use about 1/3 what you normally would use)
    1 capsule filled with 200 mg of methyl chavicol (about 10 drops, or use basil oil high in methyl chavicol)
    1 capsule filled with 800 mg of cayenne pepper

    Mix peppermint, German chamomile, and crushed HBWR seeds in 12 ounces of COLD water. Let steep a few hours. Strain, and press while straining. Discard the solids. Sweeten a little. Take the two capsules with the cold tea.

    I think the idea is that the peppermint will theoretically cause the LSA in the HBWR seeds to form LSH. The German chamomile changes the mehtyl chavicol from a sedative to a phenethylamine-like stimulant (with mild psychedelic effects) which is very capable of blocking the sedative effects of the LSA. The cayenne blocks the vasoconstriction effects of the HBWR seeds, and also adds some adrenalin to the mix. SWIM has not tried this yet but a trusted friend says it produces the most LSD-like experience he's ever had from herbs.

    EDIT: Keep in mind that psychedelic oils like elemicin, myristicin, and methyl chavicol can greatly potentiate the effects of HBWR seeds. So if you try Wasted Space, DO NOT use your normal HBWR dose. The potentiation varies from person to person. Ease into it starting with a low dose. Some people find the potentiation to be as much as 2-5 times. There is a member report on this forum of a user combining basil oil and German chamomile, and then later taking LSA/LSH containing seeds and tripping much harder than expected. There is also a report on this forum of this happening with a guy using elemicin after taking the seeds. So the potentiation seem to be possible at any point during the LSA/LSH trip.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2011
  18. torachi

    torachi Palladium Member

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    According to Drugs Forum Wiki Kratom can contain the following:

    Mitraphylline - Vasodilator, antihypertensive, muscle relaxer, diuretic, anti-amnesic, possible immunostimulant

    Rhynchophylline - Vasodilator, antihypertensive, calcium channel blocker, antiaggregant, anti-inflammatory, antipyretic, anti-arrhythmic, antithelmintic

    plus many other varying sedatives, anticonvulsants, muscle relaxers and other good stuff.
     
  19. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

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    Swims started to compile a list at the top in effort to make the thread just a little bit better. Feel free to post any more that need to be listed. Thanx to all for the suggestions swim will have alot to work with on his next experiments :).

    Peace
     
  20. saos

    saos

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    Because i didnt UTFSE properly, i missed this thread and started my own on the same subject. One should be more careful before opening a thread. Any mods reading this please delete http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156905

    Anyway some suggestions from other swimmers and myself
    -ginseng
    -peppermint cold water infusion
    -garlic cloves
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2011