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Effects - Pv8 vs. 4-MEC, whats missing!

Discussion in 'Beta-Ketones' started by M2jyr, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. M2jyr

    M2jyr Silver Member

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    Hey there everyone,

    I'm kind of new to the forum, so please excuse this being my first post (although I have been reading here for years)! I am an experienced user of ecstasy and some of her variants, mainly MDPV. We all know that MDPV has now been slashed off of the legal RC list as of 2012, so I've been looking for something that could give relatively close effects, or even better ones! So far, out of the numerous chemicals that I have researched upon, Pv8 and 4-mec seem to be my best bet as to what kind of happiness I am looking for. Unfortunately for me, Pv8 is relatively new, and there is only one post that I have come to find on the DF that even discusses it. Anyway, my question is, has anyone yet been able to get their hands on the new PV8, and if so how was it compared to MDPV and other such stims? Do you think that 4-mec would be a better, and safer choice considering how new the Pv8 is, or is Pv8 worth a shot because it is a close analog of MDPV? Thank you so much everyone for your understanding, and I hope that this thread leads to a long and kind discussion!
     
  2. Metron

    Metron Silver Member

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    have you considered mdppp? I never did mdpv as I got into beta-ketones after it was illegal, but from whgat im told mdppp is closer in action to mdpv than a-pvp is. dunno what your ROA is but mdpp is too harsh to smoke.
    ive also done a lot of 4-mec. A LOT. its effects are more like mephedrone, like mdma and crack at the same time. I was an iv user of these drugs and had to swear them off, but if your looking for a PV replacement id say mdppp. you probably know the game, but im still gonna say it: these drugs are INSANE. the only beta-ketone ive heard is not very cravey and doesn't have a horrible crash is pentedrone. the rush is amazing, maybe the best, but you're basically rewiring your pleasure center when you binge on BKs
     
  3. M2jyr

    M2jyr Silver Member

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    I actually haven't considered mdppp yet, the reason for 4-mec and Pv8 is because they are still unscheduled here in the US where as there was a law put up for passing in January of 2013 that listed mdppp, a-pvp, etc. Pentedrone I do not believe was on the list, but it may have been? I know butylone and a few others were. Not illegal yet, and the bill fell off as to it had to be passed after 60 days and it was basically forgotten about. I'm looking for something that is relatively close to mdma or the likes, that is still under the radar (as it is for personal use only). Would you suggest maybe the pentedrone over the Pv8 and 4-mec. Are the dosing numbers around the same or are they lower/need a lot of redosing? Because I've read that some of the problems with some of the RC's is that people have an uncanny urge to redose when they are way past their necessary limit. What do you think?

    -PS, I only have been looking at Pv8 because it is suposedly the newest MDPV replacement
     
  4. syntheticdave

    syntheticdave

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    [noparse]From my experiences pentedrone is very similar to cocaine, where the effects are short lived and the urge to redose is considerably strong. If you're looking for something close to MDMA, compounds such as bk-MDMA, bk-MDEA, and 4-FA would be more of an interest to you, as they have the ability to release serotonin, causing the empathogenic sort of effects like that of MDMA.

    With the compounds you mentioned (MDPV, 4-MEC, & PV-8), there is little to no serotonergic activity, while the activity with dopamine and norepinephrine is great, as a result of this the effects tend to lean more towards that of a cocaine or methamphetamine like experience.[/noparse]
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
  5. M2jyr

    M2jyr Silver Member

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    Thanks so much for the help dave! Are there any other analogs that would be along the lines of 4-FA, bk-mdma, and bk-mdea? I believe, please correct me if I am wrong, but I think that bk-MDEA, bk-mdma, and 4-fa are banned now in the states? I will do my own research again, and will get back with my findings, unless you can answer it sooner!

    M2jyr added 4 Minutes and 8 Seconds later...

    A BILL

    To provide for the placement of certain synthetic drugs on Schedule I
    under the Controlled Substances Act.

    Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the
    United States of America in Congress assembled,

    SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

    This Act may be cited as the ``Synthetic Cathinones Control Act of
    2013''.

    SEC. 2. ADDITION OF SYNTHETIC DRUGS TO SCHEDULE I OF THE CONTROLLED
    SUBSTANCES ACT.

    (a) In General.--Notwithstanding any other provision of the
    Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 801 et seq.), the Attorney General
    shall, not later than 60 days after the date of the enactment of this
    Act, issue a final order that schedules the following substances on
    schedule I under section 202(c) of that Act (21 U.S.C. 812(c)):
    (1) 3,4-methylenedioxymethcathinone (methylone).
    (2) Naphthylpyrovalerone (naphyrone).
    (3) 4-fluoromethcathinone (flephedrone).
    (4) 4-methoxymethcathinone (methedrone; Bk-PMMA).
    (5) Ethcathinone (N-ethylcathinone).
    (6) 3,4-methylenedioxyethcathinone (ethylone).
    (7) Beta-keto-N-methyl-3,4-benzodioxyolybutanamine
    (butylone).
    (8) N,N-dimethylcathinone (metamfepramone).
    (9) Alpha-pyrrolidinopropiophenone (alpha-PPP).
    (10) 4-methoxy-alphapyrrolidinopropiophenone (MOPPP).
    (11) 3,4-methylenedioxyalphapyrrolidinopropiophenone
    (MDPPP).
    (12) Alpha-pyrrolidinovalerophenone (alpha-PVP).
    (13) 6,7-dihydro-5H-indeno[5,6-d][1,3]dioxol-6-amine
    (MDAI).
    (14) 3-fluoromethcathinone.
    (15) 4'-methyl-a-pyrrolidinobutiophenone (MPBP).
    (b) Conforming Amendment To Remove Deadwood.--Subsection (c) of
    section 202 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802) is amended
    to read as follows:
    ``(c) Cross Reference to Schedules of Controlled Substances.--
    Schedules I, II, III, IV, and V shall consist of the drugs and other
    substances (by whatever official name, common or usual name, chemical
    name, or brand name designated) that are set forth in the respective
    schedules in part 1308 of title 21, Code of Federal Regulations, as
    they may be amended from time to time, or in any successor
    regulation.''.

    M2jyr added 9 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

    I'm sorry for the triple post so soon, but I see no edit button -.- As one can see, this proposed law is much more then 60 days past the opening date, which I believe makes it null at this point? I'm not sure if they can re-open it and re-attempt at a pass, or if they need to re-write the law, again.

    Also, I forgot to mention, that whichever RC I decide to indulge in for my research purposes, I am looking for something in crystal form. I'm not sure if bk-mdea comes in this way? But, whatever you may suggest crystal is my favorite and I tend to stray away from powders (they're just not my fancy!)

    I was first drawn to 4-MEC and pv8 because they are not banned, and were not on the list of this new proposed law. As you can see, there are many of the RC's up for debate, including MDAI, Mdppp, butylone, a-pvp, a-ppp, etc. I'm just trying to straw away from this list for obvious reasons, as I am interested for only personal use and research, but one can never be too safe!
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
  6. syntheticdave

    syntheticdave

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    This bill was never officially passed, only introduced. As you can see in the image below.

    [​IMG]
    Source: http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/315

    [noparse]Realistically speaking, any research chemical could be considered illegal under the federal analog act, likewise getting caught with any amount of powder whether it be a scheduled drug or not, is most likely grounds for an arrest and charges until the identity of the substance can be determined. Just my opinion here but with that being said, you shouldn't be so centered around the legality of a chemical, because no mater what if you get caught with a bag of powder you're going to jail.[/noparse]
     

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    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
  7. M2jyr

    M2jyr Silver Member

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    Precisely! Thank you kindly for clarifying for me dave, I highly appreciate it! This may not be the place, but since there is some steam in the thread, I figure why not ask. A few friends of mine have been stumbling across a pink crystal, but nobody has any idea what it is. I have used the search feature here and on the web and alas, nothing is really concrete. Does anyone have any idea what this RC may be (pink crystal)?

    Also, because I think you missed my PS in my previous post, would you be able to list a few research chemicals that come in crystal form that have a resemblance to MDMA, that does have a serotonergic factor? I believe bk-mdea and bk-mdea do, but what about 4-fa and possibly others?
     
  8. syntheticdave

    syntheticdave

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    [noparse]We do not identify drugs here, with that being said any substance can be manipulated in order to change its color or other characteristics. Likewise there are a variety of different routes and precursors that can be used to synthesize the same drug, these differences can change the characteristics of the compound. For example MDAI is available in both bright white and dark brown HCl crystals with no noticeable differences in effect between the two.

    A few serotonergic, MDMA like research chemical off the top of my head: [/noparse]
    • bk-MDMA
    • bk-MDEA
    • 4-FA
    • 4-FMA
    • MDAI
    • 2-FA
    • 2-FMA
    • 5-APB
    • 6-APB
    • 5-APDB
    • 6-APDB
    [noparse]Mind you not all of these compounds are available in crystal form, however it should not be a determining factor for consumption whether a compound is in crystal or powder form. I'm not quite sure why you prefer crystals over powder, whether it be due to purity reasons or for route of administration purposes, serotonergic stimulate/entactogens type compounds effects are best acquired by consuming them through oral administration due to the high concentration of serotonin receptors which line the walls of the gastrointestinal tract. [/noparse]

    [noparse]Likewise whether a compound is in a crystal or powder form does not indicate any level purity, theoretically speaking I could take a compound in powder form, dissolve it into a solution, and resolidify it back as into a crystal and vise versa. The main reason for a compound being either a crystal or powder, or being either a fumaric salt, hydrochloride salt, or hydrobromide salt is due simply to several factors such as storage, shelf life, chemical properties and chemical stability.[/noparse]
     
  9. M2jyr

    M2jyr Silver Member

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    Dave, have you heard about Diclofensine (Ro 8-4650), they say that it is a stimulant drug which acts as a triple monoamine reuptake inhibitor, primarily inhibiting the reuptake of dopamine andnoradrenaline. Would this be relatively in our ball park? Do you know anything about this specific compound?
     
  10. syntheticdave

    syntheticdave

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    I have not heard of Diclofensine up until this point. I would suggest you do your own research from now on though, apparently my previous post was of no use to you, as you seemed to have ignored it completely? Correct me if i'm wrong, or you didn't see it.
     
  11. M2jyr

    M2jyr Silver Member

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    Sorry about that Dave I skipped right over the first part, my apologies! Thank you so much for your help, I highly appreciate it, sorry if I offended you! Your guidance has been of much help to me and words cannot express my gratitude! As it seems, my research shows that it does not seem to be a contender and I should stay pointed at the original chemicals that were discussed. I am going to do a few more days of research and I will post a conclusion with what I decide, and when I have received the product I will absolutely do a write-up. Thank you so much again!
     
  12. syntheticdave

    syntheticdave

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    Wonderful that you have made this assumption, as I completely agree with you. While Diclofensine may have its uses elsewhere, it is most definitely not a releasing agent of serotonin thus poses minimal to no empathogenic effects which could be comparable to that of MDMA.
     
  13. Psychonaut1

    Psychonaut1 Silver Member

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    I created a thread about this compound. http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=219457
    It's basically a-pvp with two extra carbons I read elsewhere.
    A friend recently ordered PV-8 and states the effects were nothing similar to a-pvp though. Much weaker with all roa's, smoking, vaping, iv'ing. No rush, leaves you wanting more. He lives on the other side of the damn state though so I have not been able to confirm all of this myself. Gonna have to get on that f-ing Grey Hound here soon before it's all gone. I agree with the poster who recommended mdppp. Out of all the rc's I have done over the past three years mdppp is hands down my favorite. It is almost a crack like rush when smoked through a stem and iv produces a very intense rush. It definitely has a very unique thing all it's own that I can't really explain but it is good and it's a fun chem. Watch out though because it will be VERY hard to stop once you start and it will have ya cracked the hell out after a few days thinking every noise you hear is the damn cops trying to get in. O, and let's not forget about those mysterious shadow people on ladders outside your window.

    Psychonaut1 added 29 Minutes and 58 Seconds later...

    You also might want to check your state laws. If you look at my thread you will see I listed the law in my state, basically banning all cathinones. Federal laws may be the least of your worries. Most states have laws like this now ie: the disappearance of gas station bath salts.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013