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Effects - RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

Discussion in 'Beta-Ketones' started by GentlemanTom, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. GentlemanTom

    GentlemanTom Titanium Member

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    Mr.X (man i sometimes meet at bars) was making a chart comparing some beta-ketones (substituted cathinones) and several other novelty chemicals that to his knowledge are legal here and there. Mostly, he was doing it for research purposes, to help him decide what chemical he could try next, and comparing which of them had effects he could need at the certain moment.

    Chart's based mostly on experience of others and information he collected from wikipedia, erowid, this forum and sometimes on his possible own experience. It's like a short summary of effects, highlighting the most noted parts. As most of these are stimulants with very common side effects, he decided to outline only the special ones. So keep in mind that most of them causes some level racing heart, tachycardia, nystagmus, vasoconstriction, decreased appetite, insomnia, jaw tension.

    Well, for the time being i've put all the information that Mr.X had gathered. Any comments, additional information or suggestions are welcome - hoped to get some by the time, but.. Anw, here's the table:

    Column 1
    NAME CLASS COLOR, FORM, TASTE, IN BURN MAIN AFFECTED NEUROTRANSMITTERS DOSE, DURATION GOOD DISTINCTIVE BAD AFTER EFFECTS HARM PRICE/DOSE RATIO
    4-MEC, 2-(Ethylamino)-1-(4-methylphenyl)propan-1-one Substituted Cathinone, phenethylamine, Amphetamine, Stimulant, Entactogen White small even crystal shards, no clumps. ? 50-250 mg. I: 100 mg main effects lasts 45-60 minutes. Wakefulness persists 1-1,5 h more. Decent euphoria (high doses), Increased sociability, Some energy, Spaced out and relaxed feeling (higher doses), relatively easy body load Uncontrollable wish to redose, Clogs nose, Forces to toilet, Anxiety on coming up, Relatively painful on insufflation Little to none ? Average
    Methylone, 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylcathinone Substituted Cathinone, Phenethylamine, Entactogen, Stimulant Brown sugarish crystal cubes, no clumps. Bad taste, soft burn. RI&R: Serotonin (3x smaller affinity than MDMA), Dopamine, Norepinephrine (similar to MDMA) 100-350 mg. I: 250 mg main effects lasts for 60-90 minutes. Wakefulness persists 1-1,5 h more Strong euphoria, increased sociability, tenderness towards others, increased awareness of senses, increased empathy, mood lift Dripping nose, moderate wish to redose, increased sweating, change in perception of time, short euphoria is followed by hours of simple stimulation Unpleasant emotional crash Neurotoxic at larger quantities Less than average
    Pentedrone, 2-(methylamino)-1-phenylpentan-1-one Substituted Cathinone, Stimulant Perfectly white fluffy powder, sticks to each other, hard to make a line. ? 10-150 mg (tends towards smaller ones) I: 50mg lasts for 60-90 minutes Pleasurable rush, clean potent stimulation, concentration, boring tasks become interesting, Increased mood, Strongly increased sociability Side effects quickly add up with redosing, moderate wish to redose, heavy body load on larger amounts Sleep deprivation, racing heart, chest pains, strong fatigue, concentration is difficult ? Good
    Ethylphenidate, ethyl 2-phenyl-2-piperidin-2-ylacetate Stimulant Pure white transparent crystals, Very strong burn RI: Norepinephrine (weak), dopamine I: 25-100mg. average dose lasts 1 hour, followed with 2-3 hours of stimulation. Soft euphoria, increased sociability, light similarity to coke Restlessness, medium urge to redose, side effects add up quickly redosing, unpleasant body load, short memory span moderate to low ceiling effect, Hard to concentrate, Very strong burn Strong tiredness after the effects fades away, long lasting sleep deprivation, quite fast achievable stimulant psychosis ? Good
    2-DPMP Desoxypipradrol, (RS)-2-benzhydrylpiperidine Stimulant ? RI: norepinephrine, dopamine (compared to coke on rats: 3x times re-uptake half life, 2,3x peak dopamine levels) 1-5 mg, max 20 mg. I: 12 mg lasts more than 24 hors. No appetite supression, ultra strong long lasting stimulation, clear head, increased sexual desire, Erection problems, little to no euphoria, small recreational use, ultra long half-life - up to 48 hours, redosing could lead to fear and panic attacks, serious psychosis and delirious state Sleep deprivation, easy to overdose, easy to reach psychosis Doses needed to reach LD50 in rabbits and mice were from 1,5 to 7 times smaller than Amphetamine's, while in rats - from 1.1 to 6 times bigger. Orally mice 50mg/kg, rat 80mg/kg. Greatest
    AMT, α-Methyltryptamine Tryptamine, Stimulant, Psychedelic, Entactogen ? R: Serotonin, Dopamine, Norepinephrine A: Serotonin O: 15-60 mg works for 7-13 hours I: 3-6 hours Mood lift, Euphoria, Stimulation, Increased sociability, some visuals Unpleasant body load, nausea, vomiting, duration can be tiresome Less than MDMA Neurotoxic at large doses (no direct research, yet its analogue is such). LD50 is orally mice 38mg/kg, rat 22mg/kg. Great
    MPA Methiopropamine, 1-(thiophen-2-yl)-2-methylaminopropane Stimulant White, a bit off-white flour, clumpy, has an impression to be a bit wet R: (speculated) Dopamine (weak), Norepinephrine 10-100 mg, I: 20-50 mg main effects up to 1 h, comedown 1-3 h O: 35+15 bump acts for 5h + 4h increased alertness Clean stimulation, energy, sexual arousal, motivation to do tasks, possible ritalin replacement, study help, increased concentration, soft comedown Little to none euphoria, unpleasant tension in the body on insufflation and higher doses, sweating, little recreational value ? ? Great
    MDAI, 6,7-dihydro-5H-cyclopenta[f][1,3]benzodioxol-6-amine Phenethylamine, Entactogen Brown crystalline powder R: Serotonin 100-200 mg O: 1,5-3h Soft euphoria, peaced out feeling, some empathy and music appreciation, sexual arousal, mood lift No stimulant action, possible sleepiness, strong nose burn Little to none Non-neurotoxic Less than average


    R – Releaser, A – Agonist, RI – reuptake inhibitor, I – Insufflation, O – oral.

    Table's posted under beta-ketones because they make up majority of it at the moment and I couldn't find a better place for it.
    Table presents only general information-summary of facts and experiences, its purpose - to quickly provide basic information and help person to choose a specific chemical on which to continue further research.
    Empty cells means lack of data. If it's empty cell near "harm" it doesn't mean drug is harmless.

    Source List:
    This forum
    Another forum
    Erowid
    PubMED.gov
    • "Desoxypipradrol is more potent than cocaine on evoked dopamine efflux in the nucleus accumbens."
    Homeoffice.gov.uk
    • "ACMD report on desoxypipradrol"
    ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc
    • "Methylone and Monoamine Transporters: Correlation with Toxicity"
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
  2. GentlemanTom

    GentlemanTom Titanium Member

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    I hope i can the post update as a comment? (cause now it has double the amount of information it had at start)

    The table's filled with all the information Mr.X could give me, so i hope it can be useful (and updated with additional info or chemicals)(if anyone has any specific info to share)
     
  3. Boltzmann

    Boltzmann Titanium Member

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    Very informative and well-made. Thanks!
     
  4. MtCt

    MtCt Newbie

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    Yeah, thanks a lot!)

    A nice addition would be MDPV, if someone has information on this... Mephedrone also...
     
  5. toxigal

    toxigal Silver Member

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    1) seretonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, etc. are not hormones, they are neurotransmitters
     
  6. GentlemanTom

    GentlemanTom Titanium Member

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    thanks for good words. MtCt, Mr.X had told me he won't add mephedrone because it's illegal, and he'll think about mdpv when he'll have time.

    toxigal, thanks for pointing out the mistake - fixed it.

    if anyone else see some mistakes or have info to add up, don't be shy :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  7. toxigal

    toxigal Silver Member

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    any chance you can add more specific references? it would be great to see what is in the peer reviewed literature (and yes, i am trying to get someone else to do my job for me).
     
  8. KaleidoscopeEyes

    KaleidoscopeEyes Newbie

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    very interesting.
    It has us wondering if MDAI is what is currently going around here as 'molly'. Now we must research how MDAI reacts for reagents....
     
  9. bosshallucy

    bosshallucy Silver Member

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    Its doubtful that MDAI is being sold as molly at the moment... because it has recently become hard to come by.. there had been a lot of 4-MEC, bk-mdma, and even 4-FA sold as molly around the US though
     
  10. Cibula2004

    Cibula2004 Newbie

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    just wanted to add that the pentedrone my cat got comes in nice big crystals and feels similar to smoking mephedrone
     
  11. GentlemanTom

    GentlemanTom Titanium Member

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    Toxigal, actually, i didn't save the links and papers, just wrote down the info and only in the end thought about listing sources, so sorry, but have little to share at the moment.

    Cibulla, was that from a trusted vendor? are you sure it was pentedrone? What's the color of the crystals? Are they opaque or transparent?
     
  12. Boltzmann

    Boltzmann Titanium Member

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    AFOAF will have some data for you on that one (within a week). Two sets of eyes see clearer than one. And AFOAF is confident in this vendor. Pictures will come. I'll have photographs of the material and also some pictures of reagent tests. (Reagent tests will be another month due to supply.)
     
  13. dogface

    dogface Newbie

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    I am brand new at this site and am looking for information on 3,4 DMMC for SWIM. They have had it from several different Research Chemical suppliers and are having different results from the most recent shipment.

    My first question is, would 3,4 DMMC belong on this chart? how would it compare with the other chemicals listed?

    The latest shipment produced a euphoric, tactile, experience, similar to MDMA for the SWIM. However, this time, they were unable to sleep for 24 hours after a similar dose that with another shipment only lasted 3-4 hours. A friend of I have had an adverse reaction 3 times now as well, including rash, welts and painful, swollen eyes (they take ritalin for narcolepsy). Although I could not sleep they experienced no jaw clenching AT ALL and no real speedy effects. They are perplexed....

    the I am really looking for an alternative to MDMA that produces similar experiences including heightened sexual stimulation (the 3,4 DMMC, while tactile, effects function pretty severely)

    Thoughts? Ideas? Suggested RC's?

    Thankful for any information and guidance.
     
  14. GentlemanTom

    GentlemanTom Titanium Member

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    Well, Mr. X had never tried 3,4 DMMC so it's hard for him to comment.

    It could belong to the chart, as the chart is not based on specific structure or properties of the chemicals - it was made by Mr. x, when he wanted to sum up the effects and properties of chemicals available to him at that time. Then later, he shared it with me.

    you should research more on 3,4 dmmc in this forum - use the search engine, cause it must bring you at least several descriptions, comparisons and experience reports. Or you can sum up your experiences and compare them to the properties of chemicals listed in the table above.
     
  15. Boltzmann

    Boltzmann Titanium Member

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    Ludwig Boltzmann tried bioassaying these, even though a physicist.

    These included Dimethocaine, ethylphenidate, 2-dpmp, 4-MEC, and Pentedrone.

    Dimethocaine was enjoyable but required large doses and was not useful for getting things done

    Ethylphenidate seemed very subtle. I didn't really feel much from it.

    2-DPMP gave me the biggest rush I've ever had when I took it the fiirst time, and it was never again even close. It's very dangerous in my opinion because it lasts so long *and* it's so potent. So your compulsion to get another rush 30 minutes later? You'll be regretting it for 12 hours.

    If administered by doctors and planned, it could be useful.

    MPA mostly provided jitteriness, suspecting adrenergic activity to be primary.

    Favorite so far is pentedrone. Motivated, euphoric, lasting a few hours of euphoria and then 3 -4 more of being generally stimulated. Moreish, I'd say, but it was quite functional and wasn't very jittery.
    Also, I noticed that it had a ceiling effect.

    To balance out the dopamine/serotonin (assumed) preferential activity for the Pentedrone, small amounts of MPA were added. This made tasks seem more urgent, not just more doable.

    My two cents as of yet.
     
  16. GentlemanTom

    GentlemanTom Titanium Member

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    I've posted an summary on ethylphenidate at its "drug info" topic - Boltzmann should check it, as it could be interesting to compare the results of the tests. Summary claims ethylphenidate is quite away from "subtle" and barely felt.

    It's strange how Pentedrone lasted so long for the Ludwig, what was the dose and ROA? As far as i know, both Pentedrone and especially MPA have no or very little activity affecting serotonin. Is it Ludwig's experience and thoughts, or has he found proof or some trustworthy source claiming, that one of these have impact on serotonin?



    Also, another topic, but the strange thing, i've stumbled upon 4-mec in wikipedia and found some very strange info:

    "4-MEC is not linked to any deaths or adverse medical phenomenon and has been shown by acute oral toxicity tests in rats to have an LD50 of 300 mg to 2000 mg per kg of body weight (making it equivalently harmful to table vinegar or paracetamol)"

    I'm not adding it to table, because something seems fishy - i've spent 20 minutes and didn't found any original source or study to back such a claim, and the sentence itself sounds too much like an ad (especially comparison to table vinegar). Anyone has any comments or a link to study maybe?
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
  17. Boltzmann

    Boltzmann Titanium Member

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    A lot of these chemicals have a little quip on their wiki page: "No reported deaths". Doesn't mean that it's not dangerous.

    With 4-MEC, i have a hard time understanding those numbers. But before you do human-mouse equivalents as just the same number (IE, the person who said that was doing original research... and did it wrong. The ratio (if you were to approximate it, is (varying by drug class) but around 20.
    PMID: 17942826
     
  18. Boltzmann

    Boltzmann Titanium Member

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    After a period of time, I have changed my views on pentedrone. I do not recommend it. For details, see https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126006. (Pentedrone info thread.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  19. Jlensbo

    Jlensbo Newbie

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    What is ICE?

    Something called "ICE" and touted as an "iPhone scratch cleaner" must surely be a RC. I am on a quest to find out what it is and, thru numerous trial and error (at an increasing expense) have not been able to find the exact substance. Can someone help???
     
  20. GentlemanTom

    GentlemanTom Titanium Member

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    You could buy some reagent test kits, these usually don't give accurate info on research chemicals, but people here put their results online so you'd have some resources to compare your results to.

    But the only accurate way to find out for sure is to send a sample to the lab.