Dose - Research Chemicals Weighing Methods for Beginners

Discussion in 'Research Chemicals' started by radiometer, May 8, 2005.

  1. radiometer

    radiometer bananadine addict Platinum Member & Advisor

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    I thought it would be nice to have a thread on scale use with a bit more
    focus than the "How do you measure your doses?" thread. I'm going to
    describe how I weigh powders, and maybe some of you could do the
    same? I'm sure my technique is not the best - it works for me, but I'd
    love to improve!


    Tanita 1210

    First, every so often, I will break out my calibration mass set (not the 10g
    weight which comes with the scale, but a set of tiny weights in varying
    amount of mgs I bought seperately) to make sure that the scale is
    working properly. Just a few simple tests, maybe start with 20mg, and a
    few smaller and larger amounts. When I first got the weights, I spent a
    LOT of time playing with them to see what this scale could and couldn't
    do.

    One thing it can't really do too well is register very small amounts added
    slowly. In order to register smaller amounts reliably, the powder must be
    put in/on something that one can pick up off of the scale and place back
    down again.

    In short, it IS possible to get reliable readings for small doses (say under
    10mg). But it is very time-consuming, and it would just seem to risky for
    me. I don't use anything that I'm trying to weigh less than say 18mg, so
    this isn't a problem for me and I haven't really addressed a solution. I
    think the best solution would be to buy a more professional scale. :)


    Here's an step-by-step example, weighing 20mg using my method:

    Using the gemcup, turn on scale and calibrate with the 10g weight.

    Place a slick ID card (store membership cards, like from movie rental
    places, work great for this) centered on the gemcup. Note the weight.
    Pick up the card and place it down again a couple times to be certain of
    the repeatability of this weight. Once you're satisfied with this, write
    down the number and add to this the weight of your desired dose. (the
    card I use weighs 3.426g, so for a 20mg dose I'll be looking for a final
    weight of 3.446g)


    Note: This scale has an automatic shutoff function, which is a pain in the
    ass. It only takes a moment, however, to start and recalibrate the scale.
    Expect to have to do this at least once if you're taking your time. I will
    just go ahead and do this right before I start weighing the actual dose, so
    it won't shut off halfway though.

    Now just slowly add powder until you get the desired amount. You will
    see that the scale doesn't really register any change as you add the first
    few mg, but the final weight will be correct. When you need to remove
    some, it's easier to take the card off the scale first, remove the powder,
    and place the card back on. I will also do this at the end to make sure it's
    repeatedly measuring the same amount.

    At this point, I do a step you could do anytime earlier. I weigh the
    capsule (both parts) I'm going to use in the gemcup (without the ID card),
    so I can get additional confirmation of the dose's weight when I'm done.
    My size 0 caps weigh 98mg consistently.

    There MUST be better methods than mine for the rest, but it works for
    me. I have a couple sheets of slick magazine paper ready - one for
    pouring the powder, and one to place underneath while doing the
    pouring, in case of spills. I fold one paper gently, carefully put the
    powder near on side of the paper on the fold, pick up the paper and slide
    the contents into the large side of the capsule and then close the sucker.
    Some powders stick to the card and/or paper just a bit and need to be
    helped along. I'm sure you can think of something to use, I use a
    jeweler's screwdriver, which I also use as a spatula for getting the powder
    out of the vial when weighing.

    Now calibrate the scale one last time and weigh the capsule. If you've
    done everything correctly, it should weigh exactly its original weight plus
    the dose you wanted! Dropping the capsule in my example down into the
    gemcup, I see 118mg on the readout and am ready to eat drink and be
    merry. :)


    I can see that I sure could've edited and tightened up this post a bit, but
    it's ok as is, and I hope some of you will improve on it anyway.Edited by: radiometer
     
    1. 5/5,
      Great idea for a thread, this is a very important subject that anyone using RC's should know about.
      Mar 14, 2014
    2. 3/5,
      Exellent info and very usefull thread, thanks for share
      May 7, 2011
    3. 3/5,
      Great post. Now all I need is some scales!
      Nov 25, 2009
    4. 4/5,
      A much needed, useful thread.
      Oct 1, 2009
    5. 3/5,
      excellent info
      Dec 15, 2008
    6. 3/5,
      Good sticky
      Nov 4, 2006
    7. 3/5,
      this is a great thread for anyone looking into rcs. it discusses the best weighing methods and makes it a point that you should not eyeball or do something stupid. good post.
      Jan 31, 2006
  2. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

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    argh! thread cleaned up.

    radiometer, thank you for the detailed information.

    now, this thread is about weighing</font>, so volumetric methods should not be posted here, thanksEdited by: nanobrain
     
  3. serpent

    serpent Newbie

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    i do the same with a 250mg folded piece of paper.i place the bulk on the scale in the bag to get a weight,then lift the bag off and remove estimated 20 mgs to the paper to the side of the scale.then iput the bag back on and check the weight.then iput the paper on to check that it ways 270mgs total.i then divide by eye if necessary.the scale goes up or down in 10mg increments.i have also noticed(the same as above)that adding the dose to the paper whilst it is on the scale does not give an accurate reading.i need to take or add what i need without anything on the scales,after estimating the amount,i put it on the scales to check.doing it gradually does not work.i have a proscale50x.
     
  4. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

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    thought i'd make this a sticky so the the enquiring masses look here first.

    now, some notes on the Tanita 1210. to increase the length of the automatic shutoff time (a bitch) and to get an accurate reading, always have Fresh Batteries.

    i quite like the "Tare" function on the Tanita 1210 - after calibrating the scale, i weigh the scoop (1.426 g) and Tare the scale. i find that it is then precise with added increments as small as 2-4 mg and removed increments of down to 2 mg.

    said scoop can then be used directly (with the less hygroscopic compounds) to transfer the contents to, say, a preweighed capsule (so the weight can be reconfirmed afterwards) with a gentle cha-cha-cha motion.
     
  5. sg43

    sg43 Palladium Member

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    Hey just want to let you know swim received his new j percision 10 scale and used the above method, worked great, after a while he found that a empty capusle weighed 44mg and would eyebal what he thought to be 25 mg and used a small paper funnel to place it in, then weighed the capsule to see if it was 69mg, this worked very well and was alot less time consuming then using a card every time. and again thanx for the info [​IMG]
     
  6. meemeemee

    meemeemee Silver Member

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    I'm considering the JPrecision scale too. This scale is accurate to within 1mg vs. 2mg for the Tanita. Also, $78 for the JPrecision vs. almost $300 for the Tanita. That's quite a large difference, price is an issue for me as well. I'd like to know also if anyone else has any input on the JPrecision 10. Thanks.
     
  7. radiometer

    radiometer bananadine addict Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Hmm.

    For me, to make up an example, 15mg of 2c-b would produce nothing
    but some vague anxiety, 20mg an interesting but manageable trip, and
    25mg would mean serious business. Don't you notice a big, unexpected
    difference between trips?

    In my opinion, you'd be much better off using that scale you have to
    verify something like 100mg or more, and then using liquid
    measurement.
     
  8. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    I can easily differentiate between 18mg and 22mg of either 2-CI or 2-CE taken orally.Mostly in my physical response. And my physical response is what sets up my mind before the play starts. Result: A good balance(scale) is a pre-requisite for I have in mind during the next several hours. For about $200 in the USA, you can get a good electronic model that will serve you very well with little technical training. Might be less than $200 if you are lucky. Do your homework and feel like a professional! You'll love it!


    I remember a gathering at my house one night years ago. Mr. HotShot wandered in to rave about his latest dope for sale. He wasn't even sure what it was he was selling. He was an utter idiot. Before I could get to this pinhead, he had managed to give free samples of an unknown white powder to about 10 people. He did not bother to weigh it. He carried a spoon in his jacket. He gave me a spoon of "Hey Dude!" I threw him out. For the rest of the night I had to contend with 10 people on overdoses of 220+ mg of MDMA. Nice job Mr. HotShot. He was run out of town shortly thereafter.
     
  9. club222

    club222 Gold Member

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    ^

    That's sad that somebody would actually do that. Not meaning to diss
    your 10 friends that were victims of that guys stupidity, but the 10
    people who took it are almost equally as stupid for actually taking it
    without knowing what it was or how much it weighed.
     
  10. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    I reiterate: Shows a lack of responsibilty. I wondered where that character went after he was run out of town. Want your spoon back? I washed it.


    This reminds me of Shulgin's little "Problem Child" DOM. When some callous twerp-chemist (they do exist) managed to synthisize DOM and released it in 1967 during the Summer of Love as STP, he/she/it put it out in 20mg. capsules. Whereas 5mg of DOM is more than sufficient for most folk, and it takes @2 hours to really register, folks took more than one. Big OOPS! The freak-outs filled up the ER's as a result.


    I have no sympathy, less than no actually, for anyone who would and could be held accountable for giving out extraordinary doses of powerful RC's to people when they could have read the literature available - and taken proper safeguards to ensure this not to happen: e.g. buying and using a balance. Maybe, due to your dilemna of being in a continuous altered state, thishas driven you to the point of "misery loves company?" Get a grip!


    &lt;end&gt;....for now....Edited by: nagognog2
     
  11. radiometer

    radiometer bananadine addict Platinum Member & Advisor

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    I'm sure 2c-e is far less likely to cause problems from overuse, good
    luck to you, optomistic yoyager. Maybe if you tripped a bit less often,
    you'd notice more of a difference.Edited by: radiometer
     
  12. Sick Jack

    Sick Jack Newbie

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    So, and finally, what about the JPrecision 10 scales ? Are they accurate and reliable ?
     
  13. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

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    the consensus over this and many other forums is that the Tanita is worth the few extra bucks for the built-in peace of mind.
     
  14. adzket

    adzket R.I.P. Gold Member

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    i have only resently heard about rc's about 6 months ago and have been doing some research into some i may like to try though there are not many that are not scedualed in the uk so choice was limeted in first place and i have personal limeted it even fether by the ones i feel i would like to try. however i know its best to have a scale to acuratly waigh dose's but seeing as i am just starting and may not actually like them i dont want to folk out shed loads of cash for scales at the moment i would if it was something i wanted to continue with but am wondering if there is a way i can firstly messure the dose without scales. the persion i am getting of will waigh them into smaller amounts for me and i trust them to do it but if i wanted to try another dose then what as i could not ask them to messure out the whole lot into separe does for me. i have been told i can use graph paper the type with squares on them to messure against a knowen amount. is this ok or can i do it another way to start with. thanks for any advice with this.
     
  15. sloppo

    sloppo Newbie

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    I have used a MYWEIGH GemPro 50. What he does is tare the scale with half a gelcap on it, then add powder to the gelcap. It is a bit tedious but it gets the job done. The GemPro 50 is accurate to +/- 2mg, so if the scale reads 20mg, the amount is really 18-22 mg, but I find that its closer to 19-21 whena more precise analyitcal scale was used to verify.





    Sloppo
     
  16. radiometer

    radiometer bananadine addict Platinum Member & Advisor

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    From another thread, hot tip for getting powder to pipe (or saving some
    time on my method):

     
  17. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

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    a little trick for the Tanita 1210.

    say you are trying to measure a small amount - less than 10mg. you calibrated, tared, maybe added a weighing paper, etc.

    now you find that the darn' scale wont register the tiny increments you are adding - there is definitely substance there, but it still says 0.000!

    never fear, comrade, for the solution is at hand. simply remove the whole shebang from the scale. note how it now registers the negative weight of(your measuring scoop + material).

    to illustrate, say the measuring scoop is 1.426 g. tared, with some material then added, it still reads 0.000. however, removing the scoop, i find that the scale goes to -1.430 g.

    this means i have 4mg of material which has previously appeared to be weightless. the procedure seems to be valid within 2mg.Edited by: nanobrain
     
  18. allyourbase

    allyourbase Palladium Member

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    buy a balance, they can actually be more accurate (if you can afford mg grains) and cheap ones are all over. you could even theoreticly build your own, perhaps even get technical with a laser pointer. plus they dont have the 1 hour calibration period of most electronic diamond scales. these small scales can be sourced for 40-50 bucks with weights, although the mg grains, are expensive and easily lost.Edited by: allyourbase
     
  19. BrugmansiaBrujo

    BrugmansiaBrujo Titanium Member

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    I have an acculab PP2060D.  It has a battery, but also a wall
    adapter, I always use the wall adapter when weighing small
    quantities.  Seems to drift a lot less than with the battery, plus
    I don't have to worry about automatic shut-off.

    When weighing mg's, I make sure there is nobody else in the room, or if
    they are, they sit still and don't move. Shut windows, turn off ceiling
    fans, etc. You don't want air currents in there to throw you off.

    No matter what the scale, or with any measurement device such as a
    voltmeter, pressure transducer, what have you, the best accuracy will
    be in the middle of it's range.  So you want to pre-load the scale
    with something, anything, like a coin or hunk of metal, then use the
    TARE feature to make it register zero, and go from there.

    My scale has two ranges and accuracy ratings, 0-20gm +/_0.001gm, and
    0-60gm +/-0.002gm.  So when measuring mg, I'll pre-load the scale
    with about 8-10gm of weight, then use the tare.  I don't have so
    much preload on there to send it into it higher and less accurate range.

    Since I hate insufflation, I always go the oral route of
    administration.  I found a 3/8 inch thick rubber grommet that has
    the inside diameter perfect for holding a size "00" gelcap half upright
    on the scale.  That rubber piece is part of my pre-load weight.

    I found that not all gelcaps weigh the same, so I'll take a few of them
    and separate the halves, and weigh all the big halves one by one. 
    It usually doesn't take too long, sometimes on the first try, to find
    two of them that weigh exactly the same.  About now is when the
    talkum free latex gloves come out.  Because handling the gelcap
    halves with sweaty fingers changes the weight of them as compared to
    fresh out of the bag of dry gelcaps.

    OK, so now we place one of two gelcaps that weigh the same on the scale
    empty, and press the TARE button.  Double check that the other
    gelcap still makes the scale read zero when it's empty. From now on,
    pressing of the TARE button is forbidden.  So we load some
    material into one of the gelcaps and place it on the scale, check it's
    weight, and add some or take away as needed. when we think we are good,
    we place the empty one back on the scale, and make sure it still reads
    zero, to ensure the scale has not drifted.  We are using the two
    identical weight gelcaps, one as the control weight for the other that
    is being loaded up.  When the one with material can weigh what
    it's supposed to weigh, and the empty one reads zero, and this can be
    repeated at least 3 times without and evidence of the scale drifting
    off by even 1mg, then we are done and happy with our dose.

    P.S. Of interest to tinkerers that need to weigh micrograms, is this highly accurate homemade scale:

    http://designer-drugs.com/pte/12.162.180.114/dcd/chemistry /equipment/scale.html
    Edited by: nanobrain
     
    1. 3/5,
      Detailed analysis and descriptions
      Feb 19, 2010
    2. 3/5,
      real nice info thanks
      Dec 15, 2008
  20. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

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    BrugmansiaBrujo, quality info, thanks.