Drug info - Responsible Kratom Use?

Discussion in 'Kratom' started by OrganicChemistry, Jun 7, 2014.

  1. OrganicChemistry

    OrganicChemistry Newbie

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    Lately I have thinking about buying some Kratom.

    Currently I am going through the last phase of Benzodiazepine withdrawal from Klonopin and I need an alternative to alcohol which I don't seem to tolerate very good right now. I need something to replace the part that alcohol plays in my life. I use alcohol to occasionally escape the routine, get a me in a better mood and socialize. The problem with me and alcohol right now is the fact that hanging out with friends usually involves drinking. I really don't enjoy as much as everyone does hanging out with friends when I refuse to drink. The fact that I can't drink (or have fun like everyone else) while I hangout really bothers me a lot. I believe that it would be beneficial for me to participate in activities that I would have normally participated in before the benzo withdrawal (like hanging out with friends to clubs etc.) while I experience that last bit of my withdrawal to avoid the depression that I get that comes with the boredom of being sober all the time lol. Hanging out once in a while with friends to have some fun it's definitely therapeutic.

    Anyways, I was just wondering how often and how much should I use Kratom to avoid addiction and tolerance without letting Kratom become the new Klonopin in my life.
     
  2. seaturtle

    seaturtle Titanium Member

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    I am a daily Kratom user for years now. The addiction isn't that bad, but it is addiction nonetheless.

    I tried my hardest when I was a new user to keep it to a minimum. I had no previous opioid or hard drug addictions at that point. I remember I could take it once a week and it would be awesome, however I'd always be looking forward to the next time. It's not something you do and forget about it. Then it became once every 3 days, and eventually every other day. The inbetween day was difficult to say the least, I was unmotivated and uncomfortable. Eventually I started taking it everyday, and have rarely had breaks since that started years ago. I often dose multiple times a day, but once a day is enough usually. There's no withdrawal for 24-36 hours after a dose.

    Anyways, if you have a drug addiction problem, there's a 99% chance you'll end up using Kratom as much as possible once you start.

    That being said, Kratom is much safer than alcohol, and it can fill that void. I was an alcoholic before Kratom, now I rarely touch alcohol and have no desire for it. Kratom works decently for socializing or just relaxing.
     
  3. OrganicChemistry

    OrganicChemistry Newbie

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    I don't believe I have a drug addiction problem. My Klonopin daily use started when my anxiety became a serious problem and just be functional again I had to start taking it everyday. Alcohol was never a addiction to me. But after reading what you said "it's not something you do and forget about it." that makes me think twice about using Kratom even though I don't believe I have an drug addiction problem.

    I suppose there must be other people that can use it occasionally without it becoming a habit.
    I'd like to see other opinions about this topic.
     
  4. HATE2FEEL

    HATE2FEEL Silver Member

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    To not get addicted or gain tolerance you should not take it on a regular basis. I have never had a problem with kratom addiction because the addiction potential is nothing compared to opiates.
     
  5. OrganicChemistry

    OrganicChemistry Newbie

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    How often do you use Kratom?
     
  6. Rentzias

    Rentzias Silver Member

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    Well, that sucks. Looks like it might be a poor idea for moi, at least.

    That said.. I am in a better state right now with addiction, having conquered alcohol addiction on my own, and learning that a well-rested and healthy state is the way to go.

    But why would I want to try Kratom, esp. since I've never used opiates? I suppose I'm a bit of an odd case as I find that caffeine, of all drugs, has the most desirable effect. But my large tolerance has simply taken the best effects of caffeine away. I was wondering if one could switch to kratom occasionally to help give caffeine tolerance a break.. could this be done effectively, without developing a serious kratom habit?
     
  7. seaturtle

    seaturtle Titanium Member

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    Kratom is nothing like caffeine, using it as a caffeine substitute makes no sense. Kratom is an opioid, avoid if you've never done opioids. It'll start a whole new addiction for you, and opioid addiction is one of the most powerful, even though kratom is relatively weak. If you've never done kratom and get the pure stuff itll feel strong as heck... so saying it's weak isn't really true actually. Relatively weak to something like heroin, but strong enough to give you a powerful opioid buzz with no tolerance.

    How about you quit caffeine instead of doing more drugs.

    seaturtle added 0 Minutes and 56 Seconds later...

    The first step is admitting. If you use klonopin daily and are posting about taking drugs on drugs forum, you probably have a drug addiction problem.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2014
  8. OrganicChemistry

    OrganicChemistry Newbie

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    Look man I already told you already I never took Klonopin just to get high. My anxiety had become a health concern I was having insomnia, high blood pressure, severe fasciculations, migranes, severe tachycardia, depression etc. I had to go to see a psychiatrist pretty much forced my mother and relatives because they were worried about me. The doctor prescribed me Klonopin so I started taking it just to be able to have a normal life but when I tried to stop taking a month later my anxiety came back and I couldn't stop taking it or I wouldn't have been able to finish the semester without the Klonopin and by the end of the semester I had a serious Klonopin dependence I and was unable to quit until now.
     
  9. seaturtle

    seaturtle Titanium Member

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    The cold hard truth is it doesn't matter if you were prescribed it, Rx drugs are still drugs, and you got addicted. Now you're posting about taking Kratom and LSA seeds, so clearly you're looking to get high. Not trying to be rude. It's important that you realize this before you touch more addictive substances.
     
  10. OrganicChemistry

    OrganicChemistry Newbie

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    Are all those are for casual use. I don't think casual drug use makes me a drug addict. The only drug I used everyday was Klonopin.
     
  11. Rentzias

    Rentzias Silver Member

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    This is somewhat inaccurate. First of all, you have the generalized truth that the locals in the source countries use Kratom to start the day, much like coffee. Then you have the fact that Kratom is a stimulant much like caffeine in low doses.. I have *no* intention to get nauseated and dizzy on the higher doses, even if it does get you high. I *hate* those effects, and that's exactly what I got the first time I tried Kratom about 10 years ago; presumably I took too much.

    Then you have that well-known writer who experimented on kratom himself and wrote about it, finding it to be mild and safe. Then you have the stories of folks who took it for years every day and the only withdrawal they got was a runny nose.

    I'm sorry but I think you are simply off-base here. All around this forum, in fact, folks are calling Kratom a mild substance. I have even seen you suggest it as a possibility to someone who has anxiety. It seems as if you're contradicting yourself.

    As far as quitting caffeine, I've no intention to do so. Life is too boring without it and I use it to spot-treat my ADD symptoms.
     
  12. Randomiiza

    Randomiiza Silver Member

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    I want to add that I use Kratom primarily for a caffeine like effect, as well as anxiolytic and antidepressant. It functions very well for me in these roles.

    I usually dose low to mid range doses multiple times a day while drinking/eating grapefruit for potentiation. I have occasional breaks but it's usually every day.

    I would recommend the use of Kratom as a social lubricant to take the place of alcohol. One does not lose their senses in the same way as alcohol and therefore you should get in less trouble.

    The one point already being made is you may be switching one addiction for another by beginning the use of Kratom as you end your time with klonopin. Yes you say it will be casual use but there are not many addicts who planned to be in addiction.

    I still support the OPs decisions, especially as my situation is not so different. I have moved on from needle habits to tea and I am glad for it. Everyone is different though. Whatever you do always keep an open mind to how you live your life. I hope I am.
     
  13. Amazing Jeans

    Amazing Jeans Silver Member

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    Who is this well known writer please?
     
  14. snowdrop

    snowdrop Silver Member

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    if you're after caffeine-like effects then carefully look into which strain of kratom you get. there are some differences.

    My friend drinks red vein borneo in a tea and the effects are relaxing and sedating like certain opiates and it is NOT stimulating at all, it kind of gives her a sense that everything is alright in the world, everything with be ok and also she's in way less pain when she takes it.

    On the other hand, she dislikes caffeine to the point she doesn't drink red bull, caffeine-containing drinks or anything like that.

    I'm not sure of it as an alternative to alcohol. It's different. If I drink alcohol, I get more excitable, talkative, social with friends etc. wanting to be in a pub or a bar having fun. My friend says kratom is more of a chilled thing, but that's going to depend on how much you take and which strain you take.

    ultimately i'd probably say it's best not to try any new substances if you've had problems with dependence and it's probably best to think about things long and hard before you go down that route.

    good luck.
     
  15. Amazing Jeans

    Amazing Jeans Silver Member

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    snowdrop - There is no need to talk about your friend when everyone knows it's you. :)
     
  16. OrganicChemistry

    OrganicChemistry Newbie

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    It's just that I don't find addiction to be an accurate description of my situation with Klonopin. I'd say it's technically drug dependence but not addiction in it's full meaning. Aside from Klonopin I have always been very careful to not abuse drugs and use them correctly.

    My anxiety disorder takes center stage in why I don't think drug addiction/abuse could be a problem for me. Drugs when abused seem to make my anxiety disorder worse.

    On the other hand drugs when used casually they seem to actually have a positive effect on my psyche.

    ( On a side note, I do seem have more of a porn addiction and masturbation (lol) mainly because I believe it's a more "healthier" addiction and different from substance abuse, if you will..)

    The difference with Klonopin was that I was prescribed a drug to treat my anxiety so could stay healthy and so it just happens that what I was prescribed was a drug that is it also psychoactive and that's the only reason I get labeled an addict. I would have just as gladly just taken a high blood pressure medication if that solved my problems.

    So for the first time I had a drug that I thought wouldn't make my anxiety or health worse in the long run if I decided to take it daily and that's why it's the only drug have taken habitually. But to my surprise it made everything worse in the long run including my anxiety and that's why I am trying to quit for good right now.

    The reason I joined this forum is not because I am a drug addict like seaturtle seems to suggest but because when I take drugs I like to calculate my risks very carefully due to the fact that I know I am taking a gamble with regards to my psychiatric health. So one of the main reasons I joined is to get informed and make sure I know what I'm getting myself into for harm reduction purposes.
     
  17. seaturtle

    seaturtle Titanium Member

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    Kratom is primarily an opioid, and results in opioid addiction. Don't spread misinformation. You've only taken it once 10 years ago...

    I did not suggest it for someone who has anxiety, they mentioned Kratom in their post and I told them it was addictive. L-theanine is what I recommended.
     
  18. Rentzias

    Rentzias Silver Member

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    He writes for Forbes, it was an article questioning the safety of Kratom. He was then challenged by readers to try Kratom itself, before judging it. He did exactly that in his own personal blog. You should be able to find this. Basically he compared this botanical to coffee and found it to be safe and effective.

    Rentzias added 7 Minutes and 46 Seconds later...

    Who says it always leads to opioid addiction? The only person who says that is you. I'm NOT taking it for the opioid effects. I only plan to take it for the stimulating effects at lower doses, and only plan to try the strains known for stimulating effects. I'm not looking for a downer or a "chill out" type of thing, I don't like the slowed cognition/laziness that results from it.

    Read the article I'm talking about. (You've probably read it before.) Kratom *is* an alternative to caffeine at, lower doses. You're also aware that the natives in the source countries use it as a stimulant primarily. Consider such facts, first, and then you can tell me I'll become an opiate addict.

    Rentzias added 10 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

    I thought I would add this, from THIS website's wiki, in the introduction:
    "Kratom, or Mitragyna Speciosa, is a tree found in some parts of southeastern South-East Asia. It has a long history of use in this region for it's stimulant and narcotic effects. Kratom seems to be popular among older males in Thailand & Malaysia, where it is often chewed to help aid with physical labor. The working class seems to use Kratom for much the same reasons Americans use coffee. It has become somewhat of a crutch for those engaging in hard physical labor. Kratom has been made illegal, but Kratom use is still widespread, since Kratom trees grow in these regions."

    Still unconvinced that Kratom can be used as a stimulant?
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
  19. Randomiiza

    Randomiiza Silver Member

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    Rentzias, I think seaturtle just means the drug is classified as an opioid so therefore kratom users are opioid users.

    I hear about hydrocodone and tramadol being used for stimulation but they are opioids are they not?

    This is all semantics; no need to argue.


    OrganicChemistry, you seem to share a similar problem. You are just finding controversy in the exact meaning of a word. Addiction has many definitions and there is still a lot of argument over it.

    I would say dependence and addiction are synonymous, but if you prefer not to be called an addict that is your call to make and I can understand why.

    I am glad you joined the forum and am happy to talk with you about your problems. I want to hear what you end up doing and how it all goes so please keep us updated.

    Thanks,
    JR