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Combinations - Seroquel (Quetiapine) and Benzos - intensifies the Benzo.

Discussion in 'Benzodiazepines' started by Halcion Dreams, Aug 29, 2009.

  1. Halcion Dreams

    Halcion Dreams

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    SWIM has found great results in adding a small among of the anti psychotic Seroquel with Benzo's. SWIM was prescribed low doses of 'quil to help with insomnia and had some left over. By itself SWIM didn't like it since it impaired short term memory so bad that you would forget what you did a minute ago.

    But when combined with benzos it seems to multiply the benzo effects, even in the minimal dosage. Don't just attempt to due anything. Save it for laying on the futon and watching the telly. You will be noticably sluggish. Hide your car keys :laugh:

    So far it is the best benzo "spike" that SWIM has experienced.
     
  2. Spare Chaynge

    Spare Chaynge

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    Re: Seroquel and Benzos - intensifies the Benzo.

    Not going to lie this sounds horrible.
     
  3. diffs

    diffs Silver Member

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    Re: Seroquel and Benzos - intensifies the Benzo.

    Swim gets prescribed both diazepam and quetiapine and has quite a high tolerance to both. What sort of dose is swiy talking about when he mixes?
     
  4. computers

    computers Newbie

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    Re: Seroquel and Benzos - intensifies the Benzo.

    I am also prescribed the same combination for anxiety, and i think doctors know more than they tell us when they give out this combo. The use of diazepam inhibits the REM and deep stages of sleep, which are important for brain function and learning. Seroquel counteracts this by promoting these stages of sleep. I believe this because i have been doing excellent in school since i started these medications, been on both for almost a year and still having great success with both.
     
  5. Boca Bitch

    Boca Bitch

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    Re: Seroquel and Benzos - intensifies the Benzo.

    How so... exactly?

    Melatonin and DMT release from the pineal gland are believed to be responsible for REM sleep. The pineal gland is a tiny organ tucked away in the very center of the brain; the only ligand that reaches it, releases norepinephrine. Benzodiazepines do indeed inhibit REM indirectly by reducing the firing rate of norepinephrine across the board... including the specific ligand that reaches the pineal.

    Antipsychotics are not adrenergic.. they're antagonists at dopamine and serotonin binding sites, as well as anticholinergics... but they don't stimulate norepinephrine release.

    If you have a source that says otherwise, please post it... I'd be very much interested in reading it.
     
  6. computers

    computers Newbie

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    Re: Seroquel and Benzos - intensifies the Benzo.

    "Surprisingly, one of the medications from this class is a very good sleep promoting agent at low doses. It has minimal side effects, is mood stabilizing and promotes deep and REM sleep. Quetiapine (Seroquel) may be very effective at doses of 12.5 - 100 mg at night."

    Google Seroquel rem sleep its from the first link towards the bottom of the article under antihistamines

    I also post this from my experience taking my 25mg prescribed dose before bed, my dreams have much more clarity now and my learning has improved. For about the first month, I was slightly foggy the next morning after taking it. But now i feel great in the mornings, better than i ever have.
     
  7. staples

    staples Gold Member

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    Re: Seroquel and Benzos - intensifies the Benzo.

    Hi,

    Benzodiazepines do suppress REM sleep, but given for a prolonged period, REM sleep returns to normal. Stages 3 and 4 are typically suppressed for longer periods, and only slowly return after benzodiazepine treatment is withdrawn. However, these effects are less pronounced with benzodiazepines of shorter half lives and thus such medications should be preferred. Better, still, are the nonbenzodiazepine z-drugs, which still decrease REM sleep, but increase the deeper slow-wave stages of sleep.

    The deeper stages of sleep are more important than REM sleep in the context of the restorative effect of sleep. REM sleep helps consolidate newly learned information--particularly when it comes to motor skills--but does not have a significant effect on the integrity of information learned at least several days prior. Since children rarely have sleep disorders (and if they do, they probably do not yet know what normal sleep is, to compare), it seems a safe assumption that we are discussing sleep in adults, in which case, doctors would probably not be so concerned about REM sleep. Therefore, I do not think your implied suspicions are valid--that doctors prescribe such combinations under some notion about the architecture of the patient's sleep; I think the doctor would order a sleep study, first.

    I've uploaded the research paper Sleep-promoting properties of quetiapine in healthy subjects, which found no significant effect on percentage of REM sleep until a dosage of at least 100 mg of quetiapine, where percentage of REM sleep was reduced.

    Anyway, whether or not quetiapine, itself, has certain effects on the stages of sleep, I'm not so sure it can be understood as sort of an opposing force to the effects of diazepam; that is, have you made the assumption that quetiapine's antagonization of dopaminergic activity has a more direct relationship to these properties of sleep than diazepam's agonization of GABAergic activity?

    Well, feeling as though you've had a great night of sleep and actually having a great night of sleep are two different things. Agents which promote stage 2 sleep typically are associated with feeling of a great night of sleep, but that's just because it's much more comfortable to emerge back into wakeful brainwave patterns from stage 2 sleep than the deeper stages of sleep.

    Don't get me wrong, if this combination is working for you, and it is overseen by a doctor, then great, but I don't think your conceptualization of these drugs' effects on sleep are accurate.
     
  8. computers

    computers Newbie

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    Re: Seroquel and Benzos - intensifies the Benzo.

    So your saying that website is incorrect? Do you think seroquel and valium have any effect at all on sleep stages if taken regularly? It just seems to me that there has not been enough research on seroquel and sleep although doctors are giving it out quite a bit for off label use.
     
  9. staples

    staples Gold Member

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    Re: Seroquel and Benzos - intensifies the Benzo.

    I would use the word "unsubstantiated."

    I would expect so, yes, because Valium, alone, would affect stages of sleep. I certainly wouldn't expect seroquel to precisely counter Valium's effects...

    But you were suggesting that doctors were reasonably prescribing seroquel alongside diazepam to improve certain aspects of sleep which diazepam may worsen? Or have I misunderstood something?
     
  10. computers

    computers Newbie

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    Re: Seroquel and Benzos - intensifies the Benzo.

    I'm just saying this medication has some effects that have not been completely studied. And i'm pretty sure its not intended to be used for sleep problems, although that may be the most common reason its prescribed.
     
  11. staples

    staples Gold Member

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    Re: Seroquel and Benzos - intensifies the Benzo.

    But that's the very idea behind off-label usage, isn't it? While it hasn't been fully studied and formally submitted for FDA approval, clinical experience and a limited amount of research has suggested efficacy for insomnia, particularly in patients with comorbid mental illness. If we define "completely studied" as being recognized by the FDA as a treatment for insomnia, then I think there's just not enough business sense to invest in having quetiapine completely studied; that doesn't discount clinical experience, though.

    I think treatment intention falls a bit far away from pharmacological development. The dopamine theory of schizophrenia immediately suggests that a dopamine antagonist can be used to treat (the positive symptoms of) schizophrenia and, of course, studies have confirmed this. However, the immediate goal of a pharmaceutical company might be to develop a lipophilic compound which binds to and blocks dopamine receptors, then to modify it slightly to alter its selectivity, or its half-life, and so on.

    Although such progress may not have happened without the positive symptoms of schizophrenia (I don't know if that's entirely true or not), there's nothing to suggest that other conditions couldn't benefit from the same substance, perhaps at a different range of dosages. It is would be a perfectly sound hypothesis to state that insomnia in some people is caused by abnormally persistent dopaminergic action, and thus such instances of insomnia can be treated with a dopamine antagonists as well.
     
  12. biggpri

    biggpri

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    swim took seroquil for a few months. it was prescribed as a sleep aid. it didn't so much put swim to sleep as it did knock swim into a coma. i can't even imagine what combining it with benzos would do.