SEROTONIN And MDMA

Discussion in 'Ecstasy & MDMA' started by umich, Nov 23, 2004.

  1. umich

    umich Newbie

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    Hey guys I decided to buy some 5-HTP for the next time I roll. I hear it lessens the neurotoxicity and makes for an easier comedown. But I've heard many different ways of using it. Some use it before for a better roll but I've heard that can be harmful. Generally I've heard to take a pill or two every day for the next few days after your roll. Any suggestions on how to use it would be great, thanks.
     
  2. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    That depends if you preload or take it afterwards. If you preload it will get you higher and thus increase neurotoxicity. If you take it afterwards it will replenish serotonin shortage.
     
  3. Tony Blair

    Tony Blair Newbie

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    I've always believed if you pre-load, it diminishes your roll.. Any hard evidence anywhere?



    I take 100mg or so for a week or so after I drop. (and have never had a come down)..
     
  4. opiumjade7

    opiumjade7 Newbie

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    My two cents: when I've taken 5-HTP beforehand, I haven't noticed any
    difference, and definitely not a positive one. However, I find that taking
    one or two pills daily for a week after a roll helps keep my mood positive
    and my energy levels up (otherwise, I tend to feel just a little down and
    depressed). I definitely recommend it for afterwards. I've also heard that
    taking St. John's Wort for about a week beforehand can make the
    experience better as a whole. I intend to experiment with this and post
    my results later.
     
  5. Gareth

    Gareth Silver Member

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    Alright, to really answer that we need to understand HOW ecstacy is
    neurotoxic. Unfortunately, that hasn't been discovered yet but a
    leading hypothesis is this:



    A severe shortage of serotonin after consumption of ecstacy is what
    eventually leads to the damage. Dopamine is thought to be transported
    back into the serotonin nerve axon instead of serotonin istelf (this is
    not meant to happen). When inside the axon terminal, dopamine, a
    foreign object, is attacked and broken down. Unfortunately this process
    results in hydrogen peroxide (please double check that if you'd like,
    but you may substitute any harmfull chemical in this place and it would
    suffice for the example). The peroxide (acting in a similar way to
    bleach), destroys the axon.



    Based on this theory (and it's the one I subscribe to), having as much
    serotonin available as is possible, is beneficial. Preloading means
    that there is more of the chemical to be released (better high), but
    I'm of the oppinion that it doesn't result in a lower 'low' in the
    downer. I think it actually results in more serotonin left over
    afterwards (meaning less dopamine to be sucked back into the axon and
    do damage). Of course, still theory, but an educated one supported by
    many. Taking 5-htp afterwards is DEFINITELY WISE. If you've got that
    glee product, you should be taking around 6 in the come-down. Maybe 6
    the next day and slowly diminish this. After a few days, do it by how
    you feel, because all damage has already been done.



    Therefor, I dont believe 5-htp can harm you in any way.



    I will never take ecstacy again without this: prozac. It's proven to
    effectively block the reuptake of dopamine into the axon. It prevents
    all damage. You'll still feel down (enter 5-htp) for a few days, but
    your brain will be 100% intact. And the prozac will help to restore the
    levels in record time. Find a way to get it, then research it. And take
    it IMMEDIATELY in the comedown. Taking it during the peak means that it
    will prevent serotonin being released quickly (good by peak). Taking it
    too much later will mean the damage has been done already.



    Also: LOTS OF ANTIOXIDANTS (to prevent the peroxide doing further
    damage), and vitamins, because your immune system just took a huge blow
    (especially C, its a potent antioxidant as well). Magnesium will
    probably help with jaw clenching.



    Important note: IT CAN TAKE UP TO 6 WEEKS FOR YOUR SEROTONIN TO FULLY
    RESTORE. ALSO, WHEN YOU BOMBARD YOUR RECEPTORS LIKE THIS, THEY 'LOSE
    FEELING' (IE BECOME USED TO IT AND THEREFOR ARENT AS RECEPTIVE). IT IS
    UNKOWN AT WHAT QUANTITIES OR PERIODS THIS OCCURS, BUT AT SOME POINT IT
    WILL HAPPEN AND IT MAY NEVER RETURN TO NORMAL AGAIN. TAKE ECSTACY
    SPARINGLY.
     
  6. anjin

    anjin Newbie

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    My theory why pre-loading 5-htp can diminish rolls:

    Raising 5-ht levels by pre-loading 5-htp may result in increased break down of serotonin and downregulation of the 5-ht receptors?
     
  7. Gareth

    Gareth Silver Member

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    Yea, the desensitization (I think thats what you mean by
    downregulation?), might be more afflicted with more serotonin to do it.
    I've always thought, hey, you're releasing 1000x more serotonin than
    you're supposed to, whats another few molecules gonna go?



    And I think (but I'm not 100%), that it's the dopamine that causes
    damage inside the serotonin axon terminal, not the serotonin itself.
    Instead of breaking it down, the terminal tries to reuse the serotonin.
     
  8. Tony Blair

    Tony Blair Newbie

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    Everyone I know personally has said that pre-loading with 5-htp diminishes the quality of the E.
     
  9. Micklemouse

    Micklemouse Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Be careful post loading with SSRI's - the studies so far have been done on rats, not people, and SSRI's block the reuptake of serotonin, but do nothing to actually replenish it. So while blocking the uptake axons, effectively preventing serotonin and dopamine entering, you could also be in danger of overloading on serotonin itself, which carries dangers of its own. Run a search on Serotonin Syndrome and MOAI's.

    In my experience, pre loading with 5htp makes for a very messy time, boosting the experience to uncoordinated and generally embarrassing levels. Post loading is definitely recommended though, as is topping up on the old vit B complex and magnesium.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2009
  10. whatwhybecause

    whatwhybecause Newbie

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    yea i agree with most of the stuff that has been posted here. preloading is simply a waste of time as 5htp does not enhance E experiences. moreover, postloading effectively enhances come down experience as it prevents crashing, however overloading can cause excessive serotonin levels leading to Serotonin Syndrome, as acknowledged already.


    thing is tho, as E has depleted your serotonin levels already, the chances of 5htp influencing an overload is highly unlikely.


    the best advice that i was ever given was actually by a dr after i had ended up in hospital due to other things; eat loads of fruit before takin E as this builds up your immune system, strengthens your gums (counteracts ulcers etc after gurning!!) and such like; roll, then 5htp on comedown.


    it seems to work for me, but again, every person is different. also, if 5htp really was harmful, the chances of them selling it commercially on the high street would be low. get the ones with vit b supplements and youll be laughing!
     
  11. matti_2003

    matti_2003 Gold Member

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    Swim thinks 5-HTP is best used afterwards to make the come down less harsh. I have never tried before but has heard it makes your experience on pills not as good
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2006
  12. umich

    umich Newbie

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    So when do you guys think I should take the 5-HTP. Right after the peak, 1 hour later, when I wake up the next day? Should I take 1 or 2 a day? Thanks
     
  13. whatwhybecause

    whatwhybecause Newbie

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    i cope best if take afta peaked, about an hour before comedown. i kno its nt easy to predict, bt it needs to b in system before you crash. take it wen ya get home, once in morning, once before sleep for a couple of days - usually does it for me
     
  14. sands of time

    sands of time Gold Member

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    Its not a bad idea to take some B complex as well the day after and so on.
     
  15. RoboCop

    RoboCop Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Could someone tell me the difference between L-tryptophan and 5-htp? Is L-typtophan stronger? I personally know where to get some pure L-typtophan powder, would this be of any more use than 5-htp?
     
  16. whatwhybecause

    whatwhybecause Newbie

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    i cant rememba the reasons y but they say not to use l_t altho am sure therell b summin on blulite bout it!
     
  17. anjin

    anjin Newbie

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    The rate limiting enzyme l-tryptophan hydroxylase (i think its called) that mediates the reaction l-tryptophan->5-htp is inhibited very rapidly after taking mdma and may be inhibited for 2 wks after.

    So 5-htp should be the best pick.

    Question is if you should take vit b6 with it...
     
  18. whatwhybecause

    whatwhybecause Newbie

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    yea u shud - most commercial presentations of 5htp inc that neway whetha ya like it or nt!
     
  19. Gareth

    Gareth Silver Member

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    What anjin said. 5htp just misses out a step in the chain. Weight for weight, I think 5htp is actually around 5x more effective.
     
  20. SPEEDY_PILLTIER

    SPEEDY_PILLTIER Newbie

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    Hey I am use MDMA about once a month to go Raving . I am well educated about that drug. My question is Does Ginkgo Biloba Help prevents neurotoxity. The possible neurotoxic effects from MDMA are from free radicals and Oxidative stress. And from reading about ginkgo biloba it protects agaisnt those 2 exact effects. Does anyone know if this will actually protect my brain.


    Peace !!